Question on army encampment.

[Badger]

I have kind of been studying atlases lately and this popped in my head

 

How large of an area would say a 5,000 man army camp/march over. I'm sure it would vary (taking into account how spread out they may be, stragglers, etc). I was just wanting an estimate.

 

You never know, I do tend to play characters who would likely want to sneak attack, hit and run the outer perimeters at night. To scare/whittle down the enemy

[Markdoc]

Re: Question on army encampment.

 

I have kind of been studying atlases lately and this popped in my head

 

How large of an area would say a 5,000 man army camp/march over. I'm sure it would vary (taking into account how spread out they may be, stragglers, etc). I was just wanting an estimate.

 

You never know, I do tend to play characters who would likely want to sneak attack, hit and run the outer perimeters at night. To scare/whittle down the enemy

 

It varies a huge amount. A well disciplined army would take up a smallish space - a roman legion marching camp was about 800 by 1000 feet for about that number, so they were pretty closely packed, but that still left space for a defensive perimeter between the tents and the temporary fortifications. A horde that has to live off the countryside on the other hand might be spread out over a day's march (let's say 10 miles between groups) so that they can quarter themselves in several villages.

 

cheers, Mark

[Vondy]

Re: Question on army encampment.

 

It varies a huge amount. A well disciplined army would take up a smallish space - a roman legion marching camp was about 800 by 1000 feet for about that number' date=' so they were pretty closely packed, but that still left space for a defensive perimeter between the tents and the temporary fortifications.[/quote']

 

Of course, they were generally the ones with the artillery so packing in close worked for them. Not so much when the artillery is pointed at you...

[LordGhee]

Re: Question on army encampment.

 

Ah, a question for my war gaming heart.

 

How much space would a 5000 man army take when moving.

 

Since you asked about an army, which denotes some organization, here are some factors to consider

 

Each man marching at 3miles hour, a good pace for the fit man who needs about a meter to stride. If the soldier is moving at forced pace of 5 miles an hour then he needs a meter and a half to stride in order not to get in the soldiers in front or back of him way. Soldiers moving encumbered need room on the (swaying of load like his shield and spears) side so a meter across is needed also. Soldiers move at about one and half-miles a hour to contact in a combat ready state which mostly had the warriors with elbows touching

What will the army brings with it, good armies less bad armies more stuff like tents, camp followers, food and or food on the hoof.

Normally a good army would have enough stuff it doubles it road space. Bad armies go on forever.

Next step is to consider the road that is if you have a road. Is it a trail, a path, a road or an improved road?

For this discussion we will consider a roman road improve (stone paved) this is 18 feet wide and so we can put 5 soldiers across, you lose a little on the sides as no one wants to fall in the gutter and twist an ankle. So now your army is moving at 3 miles an hour but ready to to 5 miles so 1 and half meter per warrior.

5000 divided by 5 equals to 1000 meter long times 1 and ½ meters so far your army takes up 1,500 meters of road space. Wait if a roman legion you have ten cohorts or a medieval army of 4 battles made up of may banners of barons and knights you can easily add 100 meters of space for between units you need a little room. So your army takes up 1,600 meters (a mile) of road space

We forgot the baggage! For the Romans, mules and the medieval army ox carts and wagons. You double that number typically.

What about the terrain?

If it is farmland a lot of times the Infantry marched beside the road and the baggage on it. If the army is under threat of attack then the Infantry would march on both sides to protect the baggage. If it is closed terrian like forest bogs hills then the unit could get really strung out. A gate or bridge also slowed down armies as few could cross and the rest waited.

Cavalry soldiers take twice as much room.

Armies march during the day unless you had a good moon and an improved road. Most armies move 12 miles or so a day. They got up broke camp and marched for 3 to 5 hours at 3 miles an hour. Then made camp found food (pillaged). During the summer with 12 to 16 hours of light you could do this again the same day. A few times in history an army started at sunrise and ended at sundown and made 40 to 50 miles. Cavalry moves at doubles this rate but if you double marched or forced marched all day after 3 days of this horses start to die. Men can push longer than a horse

.

So now some lessons from history

 

Varius a Roman general who lost 3 legions and 2-allied legions on a forest trail. This trail allowed 25,000 men to march 3 men across through forested terrain. That is 16,000 meters long with baggage. The Romans thought the forest on either side was impenetrable until the Germans came screaming out of it. One of the most well planned ambushes in history.

 

The battle of Stirling Bridge a well planned Scottish ambush. A English army of 12,000 starts to crosses the river Stirling 3 abreast for about a hour the baggage waiting. About 5000 British crossed over, enough that Wallace felt they could still win with his 2300 Scots. The Scots charged down the hill with pike and threw the British into the river Stirling.

 

 

Read your Vegetius: De Re Militari, Richard the Lionhearted did and he beat Saladin.

 

 

Lord Ghee

[Markdoc]

Re: Question on army encampment.

 

Of course' date=' they were generally the ones with the artillery so packing in close worked for them. Not so much when the artillery is pointed at you...[/quote']

 

True enough. but pre-gunpowder that wasn't much of an issue: artillery was so slow to set up and fire - and the missiles are themselves so slow - that they were really only useful when your opponent was cooped up somewhere they couldn't move. It's one of the things I didn't really appreciate until actually using reconstructed siege engines - I've helped fire this guy several times:

is how slowly the missiles actually move - a normal person can, without too much difficulty, actually simply walk out of the way of the the incoming stone. In addition, the range is surprisingly limited: you have to get quite close (like "just about the limit of bowshot close") to use most siege engines. The big trebuchet in the photo above is about the practical limit of these machines . It's got a range of 250 metres with a light stone - but it weighs 21 tonnes, and takes about 4 hours to set up: not exactly a field piece! So it might be an issue if you couldn't leave your fortified camp, but I imagine the sight of the enemy setting up siege engines would provoke either an immediate attack or a tactical withdrawal.

 

cheers, Mark

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Question on army encampment.

 

It would now appear that Varus wasn't marching through a forest at all. The "saltus" was desert land, specifically a bog on below a sand hill, with the road cut into the shoulder of the hill --a marginal space of great cultic significance, which is why Arminus attacked there.

 

Assuming that a 5000 man army includes 900 cavalry, 3600 "pure" infantry and 500 pioneers/staff/artillerists serving 5 field pieces, you will need a picquet sufficient for 1200 horses, and access to roughly 30 acres of standing forage for them. The compact Roman camp described by Markdoc would not work for an Early Modern army. You would need 650 200lb 8--12 man tents for these men, each with a 20 square metre floor plan, probably taking up no more than a third of the camp space in total, for, say, 50,000 square metres of camp, say, 5 hectares. Roughly a full city block, surrounded by a lightly picquetted area four blocks on a side.