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Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters


Killer Shrike

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Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

That was really nice work on Jon Bregg and his Were. The game really needed a sample werewolf' date=' that being a staple of horror genre. Now of course, we also need a sample vampire. A vampire with a soul maybe?[/quote']

 

Thanks, I like how he turned out overall, though it was tough on such low points.

 

 

Vampires are an explicit no-go for PC's. However, one of the Innatus Archetypes is a Vampyrii

 

*************

Vampyrii: some characters are among a very rare few who have been infected by vampirism, either in the womb, by exposure to vampiric blood, or by being deliberately infected by a vampire but not fully turned, but have not actually died and risen again. Until such a time as they are slain, such characters gain some benefits from their infection, consisting of watered-down versions of typical vampiric physical and mental abilities but not the full-blown Supernatural powers of a true Vampire. Sunlight, vessels of upper planar power (such as Faith), and garlic make a Vampyrii uncomfortable (they suffer a -1 to all resolutions while exposed), but are not directly harmful to them. Vampyrii feel the attraction to blood, though nowhere near as strongly or as frequently as a full Vampire and feeding on blood does energize them somewhat, but animal blood and chemically produced surrogates are sufficient to slake their thrist. Once a Vampyrii is slain and rises again as a Vampire, they generally should no longer be considered a playable character, as Vampires are on the permanent Hunted list.

 

*************

 

A true full blown vampire probably isn't properly doable on starting character points anyway.

 

Vampires will definitely show up when we do the bestiary of things to be Hunted; they are expected to be a staple of the settings baddies.

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Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

A true full blown vampire probably isn't properly doable on starting character points anyway.

 

Yes. Just after making my previous post, I fired up Hero Designer, started a new character with the campaign parameters, and added my vampire package deal with the intent to see if I could somehow trim it down to 125 points. And...

 

Not a chance.

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Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

Yes. Just after making my previous post, I fired up Hero Designer, started a new character with the campaign parameters, and added my vampire package deal with the intent to see if I could somehow trim it down to 125 points. And...

 

Not a chance.

 

Care to share the Vampire Package? I usually start w/ a standard "Corporeal Undead" template that models being...you know...not actually alive, and build up from there, but outside input is good.

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Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

The Heroic Recovery Talent has been on my mind over the last couple of weeks. The synopsis of the situation is that I initially priced it at 3 because that's what feels about right to me, then later upped it to 5 due to 1 BODY Regen / Day costing 4 (and 1d6 of Heroic Recovery is clearly better than that), and finally reduced it to 4 per d6 as a compromise.

 

But I've had the niggling feeling all along that 3 points is really the more competitive cost, and as of the almost 20 characters thus far developed the only character who has taken it was mandated to do so from its inception (Big T), I think its becoming clear that it's just not attractive enough of an ability at 4 points / d6.

 

So...long story short, I'm very strongly tempted to reset it back to 3 /d6. Before I do so however, I thought I'd elicit input. If Heroic Recovery were priced at 3 points / d6 would it tempt you to take it for a character? What about 2 points per d6? Where is the sweet spot between "Not worth it" and "so cheap its dumb not to take it" for people?

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Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

My Vampire package deal is available among the Hero Designer package deal listings, under 'Horror Hero': http://www.herogames.com/hdPackageDeals.htm?genre=Horror+Hero&ruleset=6E

 

The vampire is not built as a 'robot' or some other sort of automaton construct. My feeling is that the 'undead' aspect of a vampire is very much more 'un' than 'dead'.

 

With regard to the Heroic Recovery Talent:

 

"Fervent Prayer of Intercession": Simplified Healing BODY 5d6 (50 Active Points); 1 Charge per day (-2), Gestures, Requires Gestures throughout (Requires both hands; Complex; -1 1/2), Incantation Prayer (Requires Incantations throughout; Complex; -1), Extra Time (Extra Segment, Character May Take No Other Actions, -3/4), Costs Endurance (-1/2), Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -1/2)

Powers Cost: 7

 

The above is usable on others, which makes it roughly equivalent IMO to usable only on self as a zero phase action. The fact that Heroic Recovery takes no endurance and does not have the other limitations listed above makes it roughly worth 10 points to me for a similar effect. I would consider taking Heroic Recovery on 'any' character if it were 2 points per dice of effect. I would consider taking it on a character for whom it made sense for 3 points, but I would probably 'sell it back' on even such a character at three points and go with a 'lay on hands' effect like above instead, both because it would cost less and be more useful for others.

 

I am perhaps underestimating the game effect of Heroic Recovery and therefor under valuing it. But right now I would say that 3 points per is probably the best break point. Yes, technically that makes it better than say Kilroy's "Heroic Healing Rate" of one body per day. But maybe the solution there is to imagine some other 'super skill' that would achieve a similar rapid healing effect that costs only 2 or 3 instead of 4 points?

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Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

My Vampire package deal is available among the Hero Designer package deal listings, under 'Horror Hero': http://www.herogames.com/hdPackageDeals.htm?genre=Horror+Hero&ruleset=6E

 

The vampire is not built as a 'robot' or some other sort of automaton construct. My feeling is that the 'undead' aspect of a vampire is very much more 'un' than 'dead'.

 

Cool...I will take a look at that at my earliest convenience.

 

 

With regard to the Heroic Recovery Talent:

 

"Fervent Prayer of Intercession": Simplified Healing BODY 5d6 (50 Active Points); 1 Charge per day (-2), Gestures, Requires Gestures throughout (Requires both hands; Complex; -1 1/2), Incantation Prayer (Requires Incantations throughout; Complex; -1), Extra Time (Extra Segment, Character May Take No Other Actions, -3/4), Costs Endurance (-1/2), Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -1/2)

Powers Cost: 7

 

The above is usable on others, which makes it roughly equivalent IMO to usable only on self as a zero phase action. The fact that Heroic Recovery takes no endurance and does not have the other limitations listed above makes it roughly worth 10 points to me for a similar effect. I would consider taking Heroic Recovery on 'any' character if it were 2 points per dice of effect. I would consider taking it on a character for whom it made sense for 3 points, but I would probably 'sell it back' on even such a character at three points and go with a 'lay on hands' effect like above instead, both because it would cost less and be more useful for others.

 

I am perhaps underestimating the game effect of Heroic Recovery and therefor under valuing it. But right now I would say that 3 points per is probably the best break point. Yes, technically that makes it better than say Kilroy's "Heroic Healing Rate" of one body per day. But maybe the solution there is to imagine some other 'super skill' that would achieve a similar rapid healing effect that costs only 2 or 3 instead of 4 points?

 

I think the ability is dramatically relevant; it models a very "heroic" trope of getting beat down, getting a second wind, and saving the day. It also creates a dramatic tension - do I burn my Heroic Recovery now? You don't want to do it too early, or too late. That is also the crux of its utility; its completely under the control of the player, they don't have to rely on anyone to do it for them, and it takes no time to do it. There is a certain premium on just in time delivery.

 

On the other hand, Body and Stun are so cheap now in 6e that just buying more of both or either is a pretty competitive option.

 

Regeneration is just broken, price wise. For some reason, that's a concept that the rules have struggled to manage elegantly for a long time. Personally, if I were going to redo Regen I might start with the assumption that healing 1 Body per Month costs the same as REC, and each step down the time chart costs +x points, where x is some number I'd have to run all the numbers to find.

 

 

 

As far as Heroic Recovery, I think 3 points is maybe too much, and 2 points is maybe too little.

 

An alternative is to add a little something extra to make 3 points worth it. Something competitive. Something like, a character using Heroic Recovery also automatically recovers from being Staggered / CON Stunned. That adds a tactical consideration neither Regen nor REC nor more Stun / Body has to offer. Just took a big hit and got staggered / con stunned? Burn your Heroic Recovery and immediately shake it off.

 

Another option, in addition or instead of, is to not make it all or nothing; rather than require all dice to be rolled at once, treat the dice as a pool, and allow it to be used either part or whole. Big T could opt to roll 3d6 now and save 2d6 for later.

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Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

Ok, I have updated Heroic Recovery. It's now quite a bit more competitive, and has a tactical element (nullifies CON stunning), which I like.

 

Abilities

 

I also updated Big T, recouping 5 points which I distributed into his stats, mostly EGO (I never liked 10 EGO for him; conceptually he seems stronger willed).

 

The Stagger-canceling effect is really beneficial to Big T, helping to make the most of his 2 SPD. Played smartly, he can basically ignore CON Stunning 5 times at the high end. He's basically going to make his presence felt in just about any set to w/ monsters.

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Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

The way Heroic Recovery is defined now, I would seriously consider buying at least one or two dice of it for any character. It could very well be a lifesaver. The recovery from Con stun is the most imprtant thing in my mind, and the ability to do it more than once if splitting dice (assuming more than one die obviously) is big. The healing factor is actually secondary to me at this point.

 

Here There Be Monsters is potentially a very lethal game. This sort of Heroic Recovery can make it much more survivable for characters, which I see as a good thing.

 

Oh, and yes, Big T looks better now.

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Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

Well' date=' which begs the question, is it [i']too [/i]good now?

With the current description at 3 points, I would start a new character with 3 points already spent and build from there. I do not see myself 'not' buying at least one die. So yes, it is probably now too cheap. At four points, I would still consider buying it, but it would not be an automatic thing, so that is probably the best price for the way it is now written (and I like the way it is now written). Sorry Tyrone.

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Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

With the current description at 3 points' date=' I would start a new character with 3 points already spent and build from there. I do not see myself 'not' buying at least one die. So yes, it is probably now too cheap. At four points, I would still consider buying it, but it would not be an automatic thing, so that is probably the best price for the way it is now written (and I like the way it is now written). Sorry Tyrone.[/quote']

 

I bumped it back up to 4 / d6 and modified Big T appropriately.

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Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

I am impressed that you've got a working analog to a vampire working on only 150 points. The two charge characteristic boost helps a lot (I doubt I would have ever thought of that). I would have started such an attempt with at least 75 points spent on stats already and failed from there. And the conception is very alluring, great choice of photo. Her charm will have most characters melting before her.

 

What concerns me is how she could fare in a fight. Her stats are ok, though her OCV/DCV are a bit on the low side, and certainly she can take some abuse and stay in the game, but what I fail to see is how she can contribute to bring down the baddies. Her bite attack seems to me to be an awfully expensive ability that does way too little for it's points. Though perhaps I need to reread the book to better understand; Change Environment (Stun (APG 83)). Her martial maneuvers might help there but "passing strike"? She can do 5 1/2 dice normal with a passing strike, which is 'not' very impressive. And as far as I know there is no way to use that with her bite.

 

I guess that's my real criticism. I don't see what she is going to do to seriously help a team take down a werewolf, zombie, or anything else. Maybe I've been playing with 'too normal' characters for too long?

 

 

And can you think of how to define a good exorcism ability? The world setting really needs an exorcist/believer.

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Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

And can you think of how to define a good exorcism ability? The world setting really needs an exorcist/believer.

 

That would be nice to see, KillerShrike. Believers are currently the least represented group (two to all the other fives). There is at least one mention of a Exorcist Believer in Father Jacob's back-story, Father McHugh. I or someone else could easily expand on that - or just create a whole new one.

 

Speaking of character ideas, though, I thought about an old game and might end up stealing it. I'm not sure if it would be best for a PC or NPC. The idea is someone who is among the living dead but for no discernible reason. Not alive but not a ravenous zombie or other such living dead person. Maybe cursed (blessed?). Maybe latent Psychic powers activated upon death? Whatever the reason, Jim now walks to the earth with a new vigor for life. I'm not sure if the character can be done in 150 but I suspect I can get close.

 

La Rose.

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Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

I am impressed that you've got a working analog to a vampire working on only 150 points. The two charge characteristic boost helps a lot (I doubt I would have ever thought of that). I would have started such an attempt with at least 75 points spent on stats already and failed from there. And the conception is very alluring, great choice of photo. Her charm will have most characters melting before her.

 

What concerns me is how she could fare in a fight. Her stats are ok, though her OCV/DCV are a bit on the low side, and certainly she can take some abuse and stay in the game, but what I fail to see is how she can contribute to bring down the baddies. Her bite attack seems to me to be an awfully expensive ability that does way too little for it's points. Though perhaps I need to reread the book to better understand; Change Environment (Stun (APG 83)). Her martial maneuvers might help there but "passing strike"? She can do 5 1/2 dice normal with a passing strike, which is 'not' very impressive. And as far as I know there is no way to use that with her bite.

 

I guess that's my real criticism. I don't see what she is going to do to seriously help a team take down a werewolf, zombie, or anything else. Maybe I've been playing with 'too normal' characters for too long?

 

 

And can you think of how to define a good exorcism ability? The world setting really needs an exorcist/believer.

 

Thanks; I like how she turned out overall considering the hard point limits I was working under. And also thanks for the detailed feedback, I appreciate the level of attention you pay to these characters; it shows in your commentary.

 

To address your points:

 

At max boost, her STR is 30, which works out to 7 1/2 d6 w/ Passing Strike. That's creditable at this level of play, averaging about 26 STUN and 8 BODY.

 

Check out "Constant Aid" in 6e; its a little more useful than it might seem...

 

ADVANTAGES AND ADDERS

Constant: If a character applies Constant (+½)

to Aid, he keeps rolling his Aid dice every Phase

the power remains in effect until he reaches the

power’s maximum effect. Thereafter, the normal

rules for the fading of the effect apply. For

example, if the Aid is at maximum, and Post-

Segment 12 rolls around, the subject loses 5 of

the Aided points. The Aid kicks in again in the

character’s next Phase to Aid him back up to the

power’s maximum effect.

 

So...using 1 continuing charge, she's still going to get very boosted. Her main problem is actually going to be END to keep it going.

 

I opted for Passing Strike and Flying Dodge because I wanted the character to be quick and mobile, and those maneuvers encourage that. I also couldn't afford to dump points in OCV & DCV, so the cls baked into the maneuvers helped bolster that up.

 

But, yes, I agree that she is more defensive than offensive.

 

Conceptually the character opts not to use it much, but the bite is there because she is an example of a type, the Vampyrii, and thus needs to be representative. Cost aside, it's mostly a concept ability anyway. Unfortunately, even a weak version of a vampires bite is expensive. The APG Stun option, without giving away DOJ IP, allows the target a CON check and if it is failed they are con stunned, with some rules for the specifics and a degrading lock. CON roll penalties can also be baked into the CE to make this particularly brutal, but I didn't have the points to spare. The alternative would be a EGO based Entangle which I'm willing to pursue instead; it just seemed like a cool opportunity to use a cool new APG option ;)

 

 

Here's the way I look at it, it was really hard to compress even a thin vampiric ability set into this character on the points available. As I saw it I had basically three options available; I could focus on offense, defense, or social abilities. We already have Michaila Bast, who is a quicky leapy clawy slashy combat monster chick, and Jon Bregg as a were analogue to that. The slashy dangerous angle is covered, basically. I toyed with the idea of making a purely social, mind controlling character but her shtuff wouldnt work very well on other vamps or even characters with creditable Supernatural Resistance; she'd mostly be good vs norms and that's not the focus on the campaign. So, I opted for the defensive aspect, with the thought being that if a player took her she should probably survive a few session no problem since she is very well covered defensively, and use the infusion of experience points to bolster her offensively. I laid a lot of groundwork to allow a player to justify a lot of different options with this character; there's a big power curve to play into.

 

An alternative is I drop the 2 maneuvers, buy +1 OCV, WF: Pistols, and 2 points into Equipment Pool to buy a gun with. Seems less cool, but it would give her a kill option.

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Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

And can you think of how to define a good exorcism ability? The world setting really needs an exorcist/believer.

 

That would be nice to see' date=' KillerShrike. Believers are currently the least represented group (two to all the other fives). There is at least one mention of a Exorcist Believer in Father Jacob's back-story, Father McHugh. I or someone else could easily expand on that - or just create a whole new one. [/quote']

 

 

I actually went over three different forms / variations on Exorcism w/ the GM, WilyQ, the other day and we agreed upon the mechanisms. However, the main issue at hand is deciding on how Possession is actually built.

 

This is why I posted this a while back:

 

Ok...seems like a good time to talk about POSSESSION.

 

I fully intend to use the Possession and Projection rules in the Advanced Players Guide to cover most but not necessarily all cases of an incorporeal Spirit or Daemon taking over a host body. This also sets a high bar on "exorcism" as the Active Points total of Projection + Possession is pretty high, but we can get to that discussion later.

 

Does anyone have a strong objection to using the APG options that model this effect so well? By strong objection, I mean "but I don't have the APG!" doesn't count ;)

 

If we lock in Possession + Projection as being the model for "spiritual possession", then the mechanism for Exorcism becomes very clear cut.

 

Any thoughts?

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Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

WilyQ and I wanted three different vectors for getting rid of possessors, tailored towards the Believer, Psychic, and Mystic Origins.

 

The Believer version was going to be a contested battle of wills between the Believer and the Possessor; we haven't decided yet if its going to be PRE Attack based or just a straight up protracted series of EGO vs EGO resisted rolls. If successful, the exorcist basically BINDS the Possessor with the sole command of immediately departing this dimension and staying away for some long period of time. Failure leaves the Believer open to possession by the Possessor. The finality of success makes this the best version of exorcism but it is also the riskiest.

 

The Psychic version was going to just use the Mental Powers rules for helping someone else breakout from a lingering mental effect. If it's successful the possessor isn't evicted from this reality and can seek a new host (perhaps the Psychic themselves), so it has its dangers.

 

The Mystic version was going to just be either a UAA EDM to send the Possessor back to its home dimension or a dispel vs Projection and / or Possession. The high AP requirements would be the main bar on this ability, keeping it out of the hands of less powerful Mystics and dabblers. Its not as final as the Believer version, but its less risky as the Mystic doesn't make themselves vulnerable in the process.

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Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

At max boost' date=' her STR is 30, which works out to 7 1/2 d6 w/ Passing Strike. That's creditable at this level of play, averaging about 26 STUN and 8 BODY.[/quote']

I had not realized that a constant Aid would compound till the effect was maxed. 7 1/2 dice is perfectly adequate for a starting character, and fairly easily boosted from there (3 XP on strength, followed by 4 XP for a +1d6 HtH damage class). Add a couple of 2 point OCV levels with passing strike and she is cooking.

 

With regard to exorcism, I am much motivated by cinematic portrayals where doing an exorcism is a protracted process that involves risk to the participants. Ideally that would be something that could be gamed out, beyond simply making a bunch of dice rolls. The first version you describe comes closest to what I would hope for, except for it still being mechanically, just a series of contested dice rolls. Can we perhaps come up with some mechanism to add more tactics to those dice rolls, ideally a mechanism that can involve other characters present both assisting and being themselves exposed to risk? Maybe a mechanic that allows different characters to choose to serve as either defenders, attackers and CV enablers. With combat actually resolving stun to participants perhaps?

 

I have no solid ideas myself just now, though I will sleep on it. I dislike the idea of a group being told of a possession, going there as a group, and having the exorcist roll dice a bunch of times and the possession is either over, or you have a possessed exorcist. That is too simplistic, after seeing the movie, 'The Exorcist'. (Full disclosure; I saw that movie all of once, when I was 13, 38 years ago, on Friday the 13th, the midnight performance, after my two martial arts teachers whom I greatly respected spent all day telling me how I needed to see the movie because it was based on a true story and I needed to be aware of the 'danger'. I slept with the lights on for three months.)

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Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

I think the problem with the Believers being underrepresented is that few of us are very familiar with more than one or two religions.

 

I've toyed with making a Zoroastrian, a Jewish Qabbalist, and a Buddhist warrior. However, I don't know enough about these religions beyond what can be gleaned from internet searches, research was not forthcoming enough, and I was stymied.

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Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

With regard to exorcism, I am much motivated by cinematic portrayals where doing an exorcism is a protracted process that involves risk to the participants. Ideally that would be something that could be gamed out, beyond simply making a bunch of dice rolls. The first version you describe comes closest to what I would hope for, except for it still being mechanically, just a series of contested dice rolls. Can we perhaps come up with some mechanism to add more tactics to those dice rolls, ideally a mechanism that can involve other characters present both assisting and being themselves exposed to risk? Maybe a mechanic that allows different characters to choose to serve as either defenders, attackers and CV enablers. With combat actually resolving stun to participants perhaps?

 

That's why we (WilyQ and I) were discussing maybe doing a PRE Attack based model for Believers. Various things, including good Oratory, displays of power, and whatnot, could all add in for extra dice of effect.

 

 

Exorcists still need teammates to keep the bad guys off them long enough for them to do their thing, of course. It shouldn't be a "watch the Priest's player roll dice" scenario.

 

 

Here is the version of exorcism from Demon Hunter FBI, circa about 10 years ago or so (4e):

 

Anybody can attempt to Exorcise a demon (though that is not widely known) through sheer willpower alone. Exorcised possessors lose their connection with its host, and cannot return to this plane until it finds another way back. For truly powerful demons this is a mere annoyance, but it will get rid of most possessor demons for awhile.

 

However, as demons are truly incorporeal, merely a consciousness composed of negative energy, they tend to have strong EGO’s. Therefore trying to engage them in a battle of wills is very dangerous. The would-be Exorcist declares his intention, looks at the demon and makes an EGO roll modified by the Category of the demon; i.e. a Category V demon imposes a –5 on the roll.

 

If the EGO roll is successful, the Exorcist has engaged the demon in a battle of wills, during which neither one can make any additional actions without an EGO roll made at –10, to include breaking off the engagement.

 

This battle is resolved using EGO instead of DEX for initiative. On the Exorcists turn he must make an opposed EGO roll against the demon. The loser takes an amount of STUN equal to the number of point he was beaten by, so that if the demon rolled 6 points under his EGO roll and the Exorcist rolled 3 points under his, the Exorcist takes 3 points of STUN.

 

This continues until one of the combatants passes out or manages to break the engagement. During this period of time the demon can choose to leave this plane voluntarily by initiating an opposed EGO roll on one of its turns; if it succeeds then the demon had been Exorcised and departs this plane.

 

Once one of the opponents is reduced to 0 STUN the struggle continues. If the demon is reduced to 0 STUN, then its host is unconscious and the demon has temporarily lost connection with it. If the Exorcist is reduced to 0 STUN then his body collapses. The still conscious combatant can choose to break off the engagement at this point, or press home his advantage. All subsequent EGO rolls are unopposed, and every 2 points of success drains a point of EGO from the unresisting opponent.

 

If the demon is reduced to 0 EGO then it is banished from this plane, and thus successfully exorcised. If the Exorcist is reduced to 0 EGO then he is left in a potentially permanent vegetative state, i.e. utterly brain dead. If the demon reduces the Exorcist to 0 EGO, then it can choose to leave its current host and possess the Exorcists body instead or not as it chooses. The chances of a character recovering from a failed exorcism are up to the GM, but in our campaign it would take a psychic healer and or years of therapy for even a partial recovery.

 

During the Exorcism, the demon has the option during its Phases to fight back or just resist; i.e. it can launch an opposed EGO roll or try to escape. The astute reader will realize that since the demon is tied up fighting the Exorcist everyone else can take pot shots at will. Thus, having a lot of friends along helps. Of course, the same thing holds true for the Exorcist.

 

If one of the combatants is stunned during the struggle, then the normal rules for being stunned apply, and the stunned opponent does not get to oppose any EGO rolls until the recover from being stunned.

 

Bonuses to EGO rolls for Exorcism can be bought for 2 per+1.

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Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

just wanted to say "thanks" for posting such an awesome discussion on building your setting. For a beginner' date=' this is a great thread for how one should think through setting creation and the Hero System.[/quote']

 

Sure, glad its helpful. Feel free to join in yourself as well if you like.

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