Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

[薔薇語]

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

The free Pool points explicitly are not included; thus 125 not 150.

 

Okay, so that would cap Bo out at 125 pts (not the 150 he is built at).

 

Followers are bought in the Followers & Contacts Pool, so its basically half cost as 1 real character point buys 2 Followers and Contacts Pool.

 

 

Run that by me again please?

 

Maybe I'm misreading something. Bo is built at 150pts currently. I'm reading the 1:2 ratio to mean that for every 1pt spent on a follower, you get 2pts to build the follower on (I.e., replacing the current 1:5 standard paradigm). Is this incorrect; should that really be read as 1:10 (1:5 -> 1:2 = 1:10)? If it is the latter, then the pricing I have on Bo would make him only cost 15pts (not the 30 he currently costs). To me, that seems unbalancingly cheep.

 

Maybe I'm just miss-reading this all, though. So, if one had a 100pt follower, how many real points would it normally cost in HtbM?

 

Thank you.

 

La Rose.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

Okay, so that would cap Bo out at 125 pts (not the 150 he is built at).

 

 

 

Maybe I'm misreading something. Bo is built at 150pts currently. I'm reading the 1:2 ratio to mean that for every 1pt spent on a follower, you get 2pts to build the follower on (I.e., replacing the current 1:5 standard paradigm). Is this incorrect; should that really be read as 1:10 (1:5 -> 1:2 = 1:10)? If it is the latter, then the pricing I have on Bo would make him only cost 15pts (not the 30 he currently costs). To me, that seems unbalancingly cheep.

 

Maybe I'm just miss-reading this all, though. So, if one had a 100pt follower, how many real points would it normally cost in HtbM?

 

Thank you.

 

La Rose.

 

1 real character point buys 2 Followers & Contacts Pool.

 

Followers & Contacts Pool points spend like normal points but only for Followers & Contacts.

 

5 points worth of follower costs 1 point.

 

Thus, 1 real character point yields 10 points of Follower via the Followers & Contacts Pool.

 

Another way to look at it is that Followers & Contacts (and Bases & Vehicles) cost half as much in HtbM.

 

 

 

This is explained in the Starting Characters document in this section:

 

Contacts and Followers Pool: any contacts a character might have; the Well-Connected Perk reduces the cost of these Contacts as normal. With GM permission this Pool can also be used to pay for Followers; the normal cost structure for Followers applies so each point of Contacts and Followers Pool spent on Followers is effectively 5 points worth of Followers.

 

 

Elementalists explicitly have permission to buy Elemental Followers.

 

 

As far as it being unbalancing...that's what the caps on Elementals are in place for. Also, as noted in the Starting Characters document, the Armory concept is turned off for all the Pools except the Equipment Pool, which tightens the concept down a good deal. The character doesn't have an array of Contacts & Followers to put into their "Kit" from session to session; the Pool is locked save for things driven by vicissitudes of the campaign (such as, a Contact dies or becomes compromised, but the character eventually gets a new Contact of some kind recouping the points).

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

I happened to browse the Here There Be Monsters site w/ IE rather than my usual Firefox and realized that for some unknown reason IE is ignoring all the bulleted list formatting' date=' and looks horrible. I'll try to sort that out tonight. I wish someone had mentioned that previously [/quote']

 

Fixed this. IE = not my friend today

[AnotherSkip]

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

Michaila Bast is up. You might notice I took her in a very different direction.

 

No offense, and please dont think of this as a slight but I feel that it should be credited as your character. you have put together a very aligned, themed character that would fit well in the camapign.

 

If you would like to put up the rather poorer character I built somewhere else under a different name/identity them please feel free to do so.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

No offense, and please dont think of this as a slight but I feel that it should be credited as your character. you have put together a very aligned, themed character that would fit well in the camapign.

 

If you would like to put up the rather poorer character I built somewhere else under a different name/identity them please feel free to do so.

 

Well, that takes work to re-dir and re-link things, so it might take a few days for me to get around to it.

 

I did make much more pervasive changes to Bast than the other submissions to get her closer to the idea I had for her originally. I thought the "Bast" and "miraculous survival" seed details for the character were suggestive of the cat theme I had in mind for her, but that's what I get for not being explicit. At any rate, I'm sorry you don't like the way the character turned out or feel that your collaboration was excluded. The succubus-themed character you submitted under the "Michaila Bast" name is really more in line with a monster to be hunted than a hunter of monsters, and I'll put her on the back burner for when we start building monsters / targets for hunting in the next couple weeks to come.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

I got the Here There Be Monsters site linked up on the KillerShrike.com main portal page, under Action Adventure.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

No offense, and please dont think of this as a slight but I feel that it should be credited as your character. you have put together a very aligned, themed character that would fit well in the camapign.

 

If you would like to put up the rather poorer character I built somewhere else under a different name/identity them please feel free to do so.

 

This has been done.

[AnotherSkip]

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

Before I get all wonky with a character design could you look over this EC and see if it violates the maximums for Psychic Characters?

 

8 Hirsute (Elemental Control): Buzz apparently has a Psychic based ability to control his hair on his admittedly hirsute body. In all cases the use of his powers usually makes a buzzing noise ranging from a subtle bee buzz to a chainsaw like rattle, and they do not work well when he is very wet or wearing heavy clothing. He can perform the following power stunts with this ability. 12 point Elemental Control, Noisy (-1/4), Restrainable (Heavy clothing, loss of most/all hair, Does not work well when wet) (-1/4)

6 Power Punch: +4d6 Hand Attack (-1/2 Hand Attack) Noisy (-1/4), Restrainable (-1/4), +1 OCV Costs End (-1/2) Noisy (-1/4), Restrainable (-1/4), (25 A)

15 Microfiber Blows: ½ d6 HKA, Continuous (+1), Damage Shield (+3/4), 0 end (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2), (34 A) Noisy (-1/4), Restrainable (-1/4),

6 Missed by a Hair: Combining hair trigger sensitivity to normal attacks with a psychic survival mechanism Buzz has a real ability to Survive. Combat Luck (12 PD/12 ED) Costs End (-1/2), Noisy (-1/4) Restrainable (-1/4).

7 Moving Hair Tricks: Buzz can use the hairs on his body simulate a variety of movements ranging from using his hair to grab various surfaces and drag him along them operating something like a centipede; generating air flows downwards Buzz can prevent most falling damage, (gliding effects) as well as prodigious leaps upwards as well: 12” Flight (24 A), Noisy (-1/4) Restrainable (-1/4). Limited (not direct flight, only something akin to super athleticism abilities) (-1/4)

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

Before I get all wonky with a character design could you look over this EC and see if it violates the maximums for Psychic Characters?

 

8 Hirsute (Elemental Control): Buzz apparently has a Psychic based ability to control his hair on his admittedly hirsute body. In all cases the use of his powers usually makes a buzzing noise ranging from a subtle bee buzz to a chainsaw like rattle, and they do not work well when he is very wet or wearing heavy clothing. He can perform the following power stunts with this ability. 12 point Elemental Control, Noisy (-1/4), Restrainable (Heavy clothing, loss of most/all hair, Does not work well when wet) (-1/4)

6 Power Punch: +4d6 Hand Attack (-1/2 Hand Attack) Noisy (-1/4), Restrainable (-1/4), +1 OCV Costs End (-1/2) Noisy (-1/4), Restrainable (-1/4), (25 A)

15 Microfiber Blows: ½ d6 HKA, Continuous (+1), Damage Shield (+3/4), 0 end (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2), (34 A) Noisy (-1/4), Restrainable (-1/4),

6 Missed by a Hair: Combining hair trigger sensitivity to normal attacks with a psychic survival mechanism Buzz has a real ability to Survive. Combat Luck (12 PD/12 ED) Costs End (-1/2), Noisy (-1/4) Restrainable (-1/4).

7 Moving Hair Tricks: Buzz can use the hairs on his body simulate a variety of movements ranging from using his hair to grab various surfaces and drag him along them operating something like a centipede; generating air flows downwards Buzz can prevent most falling damage, (gliding effects) as well as prodigious leaps upwards as well: 12” Flight (24 A), Noisy (-1/4) Restrainable (-1/4). Limited (not direct flight, only something akin to super athleticism abilities) (-1/4)

 

Um...well...the concept doesn't seem to fit the overall dark and gritty tone of the setting. Also, I don't quite follow how animated hair would result in a +4d6 HA?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

Master Shuida is finally done, along with his two Bound elemental followers Bo and Feng.

[AnotherSkip]

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

Um...well...the concept doesn't seem to fit the overall dark and gritty tone of the setting. Also' date=' I don't quite follow how animated hair would result in a +4d6 HA?[/quote']

 

well on the second point it is using the hairs on his body to in essence telekinetically amplify his punch as well as reduce how much it hurts him to punch things. On the first point.... I suppose that being able to control every hair on your body is Weird but not Grim&Gritty. I was thinking about something weird for a Vittruvians rather than the simple explanation of "I Telekinetically amplify my muscles/reflexes"

 

If they were not hairs but instead say parasites of some sort would that work thematically better? Though if he was mentally controlling alien beings would that make him a Pusher instead of a Vitruvians?

 

Hmm a one handed Vitruvian with a throwing things mechanic....

[Panpiper]

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

Master Shuida is finally done' date=' along with his two Bound elemental followers Bo and Feng.

I especially like how you've defined the elementals. And the picture for Bo is marvelously evocative.

 

It occurs to me to mention however that normally one can purchase 'X 2' followers for 5 points. But here each of the two followers are costing full points. Is that a 'balance' thing designed to compensate for the contact/follower pool having double points? (And now having actually 'read' the page on elemenalism, I see that yes, it is.)

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

I especially like how you've defined the elementals. And the picture for Bo is marvelously evocative.

 

It occurs to me to mention however that normally one can purchase 'X 2' followers for 5 points. But here each of the two followers are costing full points. Is that a 'balance' thing designed to compensate for the contact/follower pool having double points? (And now having actually 'read' the page on elemenalism, I see that yes, it is.)

 

Yes, it's a balance check. On the other hand, I could be talked out of it. As it stands now, Shuida has 2 125 point followers and can summon 2 more 125 point less loyal servants. Some kind of checks are necessary. On the other hand, it costs a lot to just be an elemental what w/ LS and so forth, and 125 points doesnt stretch far.

 

The entire concept is still open to discussion, but the onus is on the pointmaker(s) to prove their case. Elementalism should be competitive, but not overwhelming.

 

Also, the write up for Elementalism will be used as the baseline for Necromantism and Daemonology, as I'm going to copy paste and type over, so any fundamental changes should be made now before I roll out the other two mini systems.

[Panpiper]

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

Well, it does 'seem' to hurt someone who just wants a couple of followers, but from a balance perspective I would be very wary and am kind of happy with your rule. I would be most wary of someone wanting to play a 'Willard' character having purchased for himself 32 rats built with 125 points a pop, for the same points as Master Shuida spent. If each of those rats has 1D6 penetrating attack, they could clean to the bone one or two NPCs per phase. However paying full points is just as much a problem for someone who actually wants to play Willard legitimately (with each rat having a one pip, non-penetrating attack perhaps).

 

What I might suggest is that if a player wants more than one follower worth full points (125 to start) then they have to pay full points for each. However, as an option, they can do the double followers thing for each 25 character points they shave off of the follower. So for spending 25 character points in the follower pool, the Willard character can buy 8 25 point rat followers (and likely pick up a summon for bringing more to bear). If he wanted 16, he could either make them 0 point rats, or pay full points twice, IE: 50 character points in the follower pool for two sets of followers, brought down each by four increments of 25 points to gain four doublings in the number of followers.

[薔薇語]

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

...character having purchased for himself 32 rats built with 125 points a pop' date=' for the same points as Master Shuida spent. If each of those rats has 1D6 penetrating attack, they could clean to the bone one or two NPCs per phase.[/quote']

 

Now there is a character idea. A Bog Witch who can command various creatures of her domain. Mixed with a few putrid spells and some alchemy (herbalism) and you have an interesting character write up. Probably best suited for an NPC (plot device, support, or villain).

 

La Rose.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

Well, it does 'seem' to hurt someone who just wants a couple of followers, but from a balance perspective I would be very wary and am kind of happy with your rule. I would be most wary of someone wanting to play a 'Willard' character having purchased for himself 32 rats built with 125 points a pop, for the same points as Master Shuida spent. If each of those rats has 1D6 penetrating attack, they could clean to the bone one or two NPCs per phase. However paying full points is just as much a problem for someone who actually wants to play Willard legitimately (with each rat having a one pip, non-penetrating attack perhaps).

 

What I might suggest is that if a player wants more than one follower worth full points (125 to start) then they have to pay full points for each. However, as an option, they can do the double followers thing for each 25 character points they shave off of the follower. So for spending 25 character points in the follower pool, the Willard character can buy 8 25 point rat followers (and likely pick up a summon for bringing more to bear). If he wanted 16, he could either make them 0 point rats, or pay full points twice, IE: 50 character points in the follower pool for two sets of followers, brought down each by four increments of 25 points to gain four doublings in the number of followers.

 

 

Ill give it some thought. One point to be clear, the restriction on Followers in the Elementalism doc is relevant to Elementalism only (though Daemonology and Necromantism will likely follow the same model). Other uses of Followers outside of the particular mini system for Elementalists is a "GM's permission" item anyway, so the GM would rule on a case be case basis as to what is fair and balanced.

 

As to the Rat character, there could certainly be such a character - an Occultist or Psychic character could cover such a "Pied piper" concept easily. I would tend to approach it as either a Mind Control or a Summon rather than as Followers however.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

Now there is a character idea. A Bog Witch who can command various creatures of her domain. Mixed with a few putrid spells and some alchemy (herbalism) and you have an interesting character write up. Probably best suited for an NPC (plot device, support, or villain).

 

La Rose.

 

One thing that is intended but hasn't been made clear with an example yet is that "Magi" is the superclass. Alchemists, Hermetics, and the various flavors of Sorcerers are all Magi. Any given Magi can learn any form of Magi magic. Thus a character with the appropriate investments in Lore skills and required mini systems could have a Hermetic Rote VPP, know some Alchemical Recipes, some Elemental Powers, and so forth...or any combination allowed by the various mini systems. Occultist and Spiritualists are separate superclasses, but there still isnt anything preventing a given character from being an Occultist and a Magi other than the fact that it's needlessly redundant.

 

So a "witch" concept mixing some Sorcery, Alchemy, and Wizardry is totally doable if you can soak the points to make it work.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

A working version of Suppressors and Supernatural Suppression is up.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

One thing that is intended but hasn't been made clear with an example yet is that "Magi" is the superclass. Alchemists, Hermetics, and the various flavors of Sorcerers are all Magi. Any given Magi can learn any form of Magi magic. Thus a character with the appropriate investments in Lore skills and required mini systems could have a Hermetic Rote VPP, know some Alchemical Recipes, some Elemental Powers, and so forth...or any combination allowed by the various mini systems. Occultist and Spiritualists are separate superclasses, but there still isnt anything preventing a given character from being an Occultist and a Magi other than the fact that it's needlessly redundant.

 

So a "witch" concept mixing some Sorcery, Alchemy, and Wizardry is totally doable if you can soak the points to make it work.

 

I reworked the Mystic page to add a "Pragmatist" grouping to make this more clear; used the opportunity to do a general overhaul of the document.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

Posted up a rough, no bio version, of a Lycanthropic Innati:

 

 

Jon Bregg

Jon Bregg (Were)

[Panpiper]

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

Jon Bregg

 

3 Hickwise 12-

 

LOL!

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

A working version of Suppressors and Supernatural Suppression is up.

 

Any thoughts on this key concept?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

Updated Combat Averages:

 

Name		OCV	DCV	OMCV	DMCV		Levels					Gear					Maneuvers	Speed	Origin
Father Jacob	3	6	6	6												N		2	Believer
Big T		4	3	3	3		+2 w Bare Knuckle Brawlin							Y		2	Believer

Jon Bregg	4	3	3	3		+1 w Hunting Rifle								N		3	Innatus
Jon Bregg Were	4	3	2	2		+2 w Claws									N		3	Innatus
Cyrus Cimmeriad	4	3	3	4		+1 w Heavy Metal Scream								N		3	Innatus
Michaila Bast	3	6	3	3		+3 w Retractable Claws								N		5	Innatus

Clark Dugard	5	5	3	3		+3 w Desert Eagle								Y		3	Professional
Jimmy Chen	5	5	3	3		+1 w Insidious Snake Style							Y		4	Professional
Killroy		5	6	3	3		+2 w Barret 95				Scope +2 w Attached Gun			N		3	Professional
Jack Donaldson	4	4	3	3		+1 Overall									N		2	Professional

Ben Newman	4	7	3	3		+1 w Pistols				Scope +2 w Attached Gun			N		3	Psychic
Sabrina		3	5	3	5		+2 with Glock 20			Scope +2 w Attached Gun			N		3	Psychic
Franken-Doc	3	3	3	3		+1 Overall									N		2	Psychic
Jennifer Hale	2	2	7	7												N		2	Psychic

Master Shuida	3	3	3	3												N		2	Mystic
Karl Bocher	4	4	3	3		+1 Overall; +1 w Grenades		+2 Overall				N		2	Mystic
Joseph Blanc	5	5	3	3												N		3	Mystic
Murgatroyd	4	4	4	4		+1 w Ring of Arcane Blasting, 							N		2	Mystic
						+3 with Arcane Magic (Offensive Use Only)



Average		3.83	4.28	3.39	3.56														2.72	

[Panpiper]

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

Any thoughts on this key concept?

 

I'm not sure how you calculated the points cost for the effect, but it seems to me to be on the whole, rather well point balanced. A suppressor having spent 60 or 75 points on suppression will not 'completely' nullify supernaturals, but will make it much more difficult for them. It will certainly make it a 'lot' more difficult for casters and such to use their magic.

 

I do see it as being a massive amount of brainpower on the part of the GM running a game however and were I a GM, I would likely keep this in the realm of NPCs and even then have it relatively rare, like when visiting James Randi, Richard Dawkins or a science laboratory surrounded by experimental physicists.

 

Sorry I don't have anything particularly insightful to say.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters

 

I'm not sure how you calculated the points cost for the effect' date=' but it seems to me to be on the whole, rather well point balanced. A suppressor having spent 60 or 75 points on suppression will not 'completely' nullify supernaturals, but will make it much more difficult for them. It will certainly make it a 'lot' more difficult for casters and such to use their magic.[/quote']

 

I swagged the points upwards from a NCC Change Environment, and general instinct. It definitely hoses casters the most...unless casters have bought / defined their effects as being subtle or entirely invisible in which case they'll be unaffected. Using Mage the Ascension parlance, "coincidental magic" gets away with it while "vulgar magic" gets shut down pretty hard.

 

I also wanted to affect innately supernatural beings as well, and I think the forced RSR does that, but it takes a serious point investment for a Suppressor to reliably shut out supernaturals. I initially had a concept where it forced supernatural's to make EGO checks to stay in the area and take actions, but it was really expensive and unwieldy. I settled on the Suffocation effect as a compromise. Affected Supernaturals that stay in a Suppressors vicinity are going to eventually run out of mojo. This still isn't air tight, as supernaturals w/ 0 END abilities are going to be unaffected.

 

I do see it as being a massive amount of brainpower on the part of the GM running a game however

Yes, Suppressors will definitely slow the game down. This was even more true of the original 4e version of them, as the Suppress based mechanic affected everyone, all abilities, all the time. Massive recalculation. This version at least only affects overtly Supernatural effects, and doesn't require Active Point math -> it's resolved with a boolean die roll.

 

and were I a GM, I would likely keep this in the realm of NPCs and even then have it relatively rare, like when visiting James Randi, Richard Dawkins or a science laboratory surrounded by experimental physicists.

Suppressors should be very rare. They're a very specific subtype of a uncommon breed (Psychic) of a rare thing (Supernatural person).

 

Or, to put it a different way, in my conceptualization of HtbM, there are maybe a couple of hundred Suppressors world wide...at the absolute outside.

 

However, there is certainly room for interpretation and variation. If a GM were to say that all humans were innately psychic and those that weren't "awakened" or "supernaturally aware" were de facto "in denial", then they could treat all or almost all "mundanes" as innately having 1 level of Supernatural Suppression. Once they become aware of the supernatural and realize that it does exist, they no longer have this attribute. If the GM were to run with this, the game would play very differently; groups of mundanes would shut down, without even trying, supernatural things which would force supernaturals to cling to the periphery, and avoid groups. The original version of WoD had variations on this concept in Werewolf and Mage (though the rationale was different). It creates its own kind of play experience, and tilts the game towards "mundanity", but it can be fun. It's not how I personally envision HtbM, but tastes differ.

 

Sorry I don't have anything particularly insightful to say.

 

" it seems to me to be on the whole, rather well point balanced. " is useful feedback. The costing is somewhat ball-parked, and its useful to get other opinions on it.