4th Edition, Independent...

[Winterlord]

Or Sixth, I have the book, just I am in a 4th campaign.

 

In a Super Hero Campaign.

My GM and I are in a debate. He says an Focus is as limited as an Independent object, and they cannot stack. In effect, He says that Focus is a subset of Independent.

 

I have pointed out the difference, as far as I know...

I say an Independent object can be stolen, broke, lost and used against me.

He says there is no difference from a focus.

He says a Focus can be stolen, broke, lost and used against me.

 

I say, he does not understand Focus.

 

I could be totally lost, but as I have read it, a Focus can be taken, used against me, but if you want to use it after that encounter/adventure, you have to pay the CP cost. It is not just free for all to have.

 

Wheras, and Independent Object is usually by anyone, anywhere at anytime, so long as they can get it. If I want to replace it, I cannot simly go home and pray for it. I have to spend Cp.

 

He disagrees.

 

To make it worse, there was a typo about what is bought as Independent once. I had learned the game that all objects were bought independent. He says independent is never used.

 

Very Confused.

Any answer would be loved.

 

(And yes, I did a search, but my Internets were being naughty. If you can point to a thread, i would love that too.)

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: 4th Edition, Independent...

 

You're sort of both right.

 

You're right that Independent and Focus are not the same thing. For example, let's look at Batman's batarang. It's a Universal Focus, because if someone took it away (or if he handed it to someone else), that person could throw it and do damage with it, etc. However, it's not Independent, because it's not irreplaceable. If he loses a batarang, he just gets another one from the batarang closet in the batcave. The character points he spent on it are not forever allocated to it, even if he doesn't have it any more.

 

Independent is mostly meant for things like magic items in a fantasy campaign (when talking about items that -- for whatever reason -- the character has purchased themselves with character points, rather than finding them in-game). If you lost an Independent item, you can't just get another one, and (more importantly) you also can't reclaim the points you spent on it and spend them on something else. You're taking a huge risk by making something Independent.

 

And (here's where he's sorta right) it's not a risk that's typically appropriate for a superhero game. So when he says Independent is never used, he's pretty much right in that it's virtually never used in a Champions game.

 

Independent is really kind of a PITB concept, that's not hugely clear. There's a reason why it went away in 6th Edition. I would suggest avoiding the whole issue by just staying away from Independent.

[Nevenall]

Re: 4th Edition, Independent...

 

The limitations were meant to be cumulative. You take a Focus for your power and it can then be lost, broken, or stolen and used against you, but it can be Replaced.

If you add Independent it means you cannot replace the Focus and get your power back. You lose the character points you spent on that power.

Independent is probably not a good limitation to take in most superhero games. It's really intended for magical items in fantasy campaigns.

[Lucius]

Re: 4th Edition, Independent...

 

The limitations were meant to be cumulative. .

 

Actually, it's possible to have Independent without Focus.

 

But that still means the power can be lost forever (if Dispelled for instance)

 

It's never a good idea unless you really WANT to lost that power AND the points.

 

You should never be dependent on something that's Independent.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary would like to be more Independent, but Lucius says no way.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: 4th Edition, Independent...

 

Yeah. Especially if you take the point that by taking limitations (and accepting the discount for that) you are telling the GM you expect it to be used at som epoint. So in effect you are getting a bonus early on for something you intend to be irrevocably taken away from you during the campaign.

 

 

Doc

[Rapier]

Re: 4th Edition, Independent...

 

Actually' date=' it's possible to have Independent without Focus. [/quote']

 

Possible but very, very unlikely.

[Lucius]

Re: 4th Edition, Independent...

 

Possible but very' date=' very unlikely.[/quote']

 

Demeter's Blessing: Change Environment 1" radius (+1 Temperature Level Adjustment (when it's cold), -1 Temperature Level Adjustment (when it's hot), -2 to Skill Roll (any skill, magical or otherwise, intended to blight crops), Multiple Combat Effects), Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4), MegaScale (1" = 10 km; +1/2), Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4), Difficult To Dispel (x8 Active Points; +3/4) (52 Active Points); Independent (-2), Extra Time (6 Hours +, Only to Activate, Character May Take No Other Actions, -2), Window Of Opportunity (once per Month; window remains open for 1 Day; -2), No Range (-1/2), Only When Serving The Godess' Purposes (-1/2), Limited Power Only as much area as the priestess can circumambulate between sunrise and sunset (-1/2), Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (Circumambulation; -1/4), Limited Power Only on arable land (-1/4), Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -1/4)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And a very very unlikely palindromedary