Field/Camping Gear

[BLHarrison]

Specifily a Back pack (anything from what military use in the field to something you think a cartoon character would use)

 

A sleeping bag

 

A canteen (or other portable water supply)

 

I'm designing the troops of a Star-Nation and the former 8404 in me just doesn't want to forget the above.

[McCoy]

Re: Field/Camping Gear

 

Levels on Survival skill, with Bulky focus and extra time?

[Alibear]

Re: Field/Camping Gear

 

Do we really need to stat up everything? If they have survival basics like a tent, water, a small axe, food, basic first aid kit etc, people can survive without make survival skill rolls.

[Lucius]

Re: Field/Camping Gear

 

I'm not sure what the question is.

 

BLHarrison, what are you looking for exactly? A point value for a good camping outfit?

 

In a heroic game where equipment is "free" (not paid with character points) I would say it gives a bonus to Survival rolls.

 

If you want to pay points for it, Levels with Survival seems logical. If you want to get complicated, you could also do it as extremely limited Life Support and/or Change Environment.

 

Or are you trying to ask something else? Like, looking for a list of what should be in such a kit?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Packing a palindromedary

[BLHarrison]

Re: Field/Camping Gear

 

I'm not sure what the question is.

 

BLHarrison, what are you looking for exactly? A point value for a good camping outfit?

 

In a heroic game where equipment is "free" (not paid with character points) I would say it gives a bonus to Survival rolls.

 

Either/or actually. For actuall PC's a reasonable cost for such things (in this case a Star-Hero space opera flavored game)

 

I'm also stating out the standard equiptment for the Marines in a planed Star-Hero campain and I'm using the real points to help keep things balanced and/or resonable.

 

For the second purpose, as was suggested some levels in Survival (cue Doh moment as I realise it is so logical) for them as a unit make sense, most likely +2 total with the OAF limit (using 3 point level when focusis the cost for all three items comes to 3)

 

Thanks

[Fearghus]

Re: Field/Camping Gear

 

Do we really need to stat up everything? If they have survival basics like a tent' date=' water, a small axe, food, basic first aid kit etc, people can survive without make survival skill rolls.[/quote']

 

Ditto. I was just about to say this. Normal gear is normal gear. you don't have stats for your clothing... You don't write up stats for the lights or other electronics in your house, or any other home appliances, or tools your character might use... some things are just accepted as given. He has a backpack of survival gear... It may or may not give him a bonus skill level in survival depending on your GM.

[Rapier]

Re: Field/Camping Gear

 

+2 Survival, OAF.

 

I'm not sure they qualify for Bulky. I also wouldn't much bother with Extra Time. It's not like the fact that it takes 5 minutes to set up a tent is really going to be much of a Limitation. Now if it was a Combat Tent (?).

 

EDIT: To be a little less cryptic. When someone has a tool driven skill (eg LockPicking, Survival, Computer Programming) I assume that their base skill roll is sans tools. They can come at the skill naked and have that roll. "What?" you say? How can you pick a lock when you are nekkid? The skill roll allows you the knowledge in not only how to pick a lock but in what kinds of materials you could use to pick that lock. So that base skill would allow you to improvise a tool. This would be my scenario:

 

The character is stripped of his super suit and is thrown into a broom closet and the door is locked behind him. The character has LockPicking but no picks. So he makes a LockPicking roll to improvise a pick. His level of success/failure determines the quality of his tool. If he makes it by 2 he has a +2 to his LockPicking skill. If he fails by 3, he is -3 to his LockPicking skill. He can then make his LockPicking roll to try and unlock the lock.

 

In this case, the base Survival skill is what I would give the character with no gear. If he has gear, that Survival skill is a lot easier. Oh, I also ALWAYS build gear as levels. So a pair of lockpicks are +2 LockPicking OAF.

 

I hope that makes some kind of sense!

[Ragnarok]

Re: Field/Camping Gear

 

Do we really need to stat up everything? If they have survival basics like a tent' date=' water, a small axe, food, basic first aid kit etc, people can survive without make survival skill rolls.[/quote']

 

While I heartily agree with your protestations of statting up everything, I think that there should still be a Survival roll required even if you have gear. There is more to survival than gear, IMO, at least long-term survival. How long a person lasts depends mostly on the intelligence and experience of the person involved of course. If I take the average urbanite who has little or no outdoor experience, they're not going to last very long. Yes, they have a tent, food and water. But do they know how and where to find more when they run out? Do they know to avoid stagnant water and not to set up their tent in a gully where it could flash flood?

 

So, what it basically boils down to (like almost every issue on these boards) is situational discretion. Are the PCs just planning to be out in the woods for less than a week, and if so, is the environment relatively friendly? Then I'd say no roll at all. Are the PCs going to be out there for more than a week, or is the environment harsh? Then I'd say give them a Survival roll with +2 for gear.

 

As always, YMMV.

[Grymour]

Re: Field/Camping Gear

 

It makes excellent sense, and is very informative to boot. For what it is worth, that is kinda what I was thinking.

 

In one game I ran years ago, the characters (Ships crew in a Sci fi game) had access to many different kits, that gave bonuses to their skills.

[Alibear]

Re: Field/Camping Gear

 

But we're talking about someone who has survival or they won't get any bonuses for the gear. So If someone with the survival skill has a tent and basic equiment, food and water then he can survive. Why are we wanting him to make a roll?

 

If we take away the tent, or the food, add a blizzard or what have you then he can make a roll ot survive but anyone with survival training will be able to live in the wild with adequate food, water and shelter.

 

edit: ignore this I just read the rest of Ragnorak's post.

[torchwolf]

Re: Field/Camping Gear

 

+2 Survival, OAF.

 

I'm not sure they qualify for Bulky. I also wouldn't much bother with Extra Time. It's not like the fact that it takes 5 minutes to set up a tent is really going to be much of a Limitation. Now if it was a Combat Tent (?).

Base Time for Skill Use is another thing though (as listed in Ultimate Skill and the APG); some Skills necessarily take more time to even be able to make a roll at +0, up and down the Time Chart for modifiers. Backpack with basic Survival gear would hardly be bulky, improvising or constructing shelter as needed, but a full set of tent, cooking gear, canned food, and 'luxury-level' Survival gear for several people who don't want to have to use Survival would be as Bulky as packing for a camping trip. In that case, you'd pack all of that just to avoid having to make a Survival roll at all (well in theory you didn't forget matches).

Going from IRL experience, especially from the military, 5 Minutes to set up a tent and gear might constitute an Advantage, but more likely few people have as much in their Survival Skill as they'd like to think they do.

 

EDIT: To be a little less cryptic. When someone has a tool driven skill (eg LockPicking, Survival, Computer Programming) I assume that their base skill roll is sans tools. They can come at the skill naked and have that roll. "What?" you say? How can you pick a lock when you are nekkid? The skill roll allows you the knowledge in not only how to pick a lock but in what kinds of materials you could use to pick that lock. So that base skill would allow you to improvise a tool. This would be my scenario:

 

The character is stripped of his super suit and is thrown into a broom closet and the door is locked behind him. The character has LockPicking but no picks. So he makes a LockPicking roll to improvise a pick. His level of success/failure determines the quality of his tool. If he makes it by 2 he has a +2 to his LockPicking skill. If he fails by 3, he is -3 to his LockPicking skill. He can then make his LockPicking roll to try and unlock the lock.

 

In this case, the base Survival skill is what I would give the character with no gear. If he has gear, that Survival skill is a lot easier. Oh, I also ALWAYS build gear as levels. So a pair of lockpicks are +2 LockPicking OAF.

 

I hope that makes some kind of sense!

That's one way of handling it, treating most if not all Skills as coming with the knowledge of how to apply them might require an extra roll but is usually worth it; it's often more interesting to make a preparatory Roll to evaluate the situation so you can apply the Skill intelligently, even with definitely equipment-free Skills (making a Bribery Roll to try to estimate what offer would be likely to work, etc.).

I think that usually works better than having to buy a complementary PS and/or KS for each and every Skill, but I would probably place the +0 level situation at the 'normal expected use' situation (Lockpicking starting at a negative modifier for inadequate tools at best if no lockpicks are available; poor tools if even wire is available to improvise use) but either using an 'evaluation roll' or assuming a roll of 10 to have available options presented allows a player to have input in how to proceed or if tools should be acquired before proceeding (Electronics evaluation roll to decide if a replacement circuit board is necessary or would speed up repairs might be preferable to juryrigging, etc.).

 

Much like you suggest here, I like to think of it as two steps:

1) Troubleshooting (Skill Roll, possibly modified by troubleshooting equipment)

2) Solution/Resolution (Skill Roll modified by options selected)

 

It all depends on what level of detail a particular situation calls for, of course, so as not to grind the story to a complete halt for describing details. Pacing Skill use ultimately decides how the rolls work.

 

Many good points brought up here along those lines.

 

Oh and YMMV.