Linked in a VPP, Looking for Opinons

[Duane From RI]

In Champions Powers I have seen a handful of compound powers built with the limitation "HKA Must Do BODY (-1/2)". The secondary attacks often have the Linked limitation as well.

However -

These constructions are not normally efficient in a VPP. A Compound Power is high Active Points which makes it harder to switch in the middle of combat (assuming skill roll still required) and Linked is normally not allowed.

Nonetheless -

I can imagine a character whose is a whirler with two curved blades and also skilled with kicks. Some of the things he could do would be to add drains to his sword attacks (representing slicing tendons, opening cuts), flashes to his kicks (representing kicking people in the nose/eyes/ears so hard that sense organ is injured). But he may also want to add advantages to his slices (Autofire, Armor Piercing to reflect targeting weak points) or to his kicks (Autofire, Double Knockback, Penetrating to reflect that the impact is so widespread that you're going to feel it nonetheless).

So -

What leeway tact should the GM allow. Sword and Kick seem pretty basic and perhaps should be outside a VPP. Now the VPP may only have one slot linked to the sword and one slot to the kick. Not that bad. Should the GM approve Naked Advantages in the VPP?

Or -

Require that the character build some nasty compound powers and live with the consequence of a higher control cost and harder skill roll?

The Rub -

Is a 50 point compound power the equivalent of a 50 point power built with just advantages? Is a 2½d6HKA compounded with a 1d6 CON Drain as dangerous as a 2½d6HKA Armor Piercing?

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Linked in a VPP, Looking for Opinons

 

To start answering questions:

 

1) If points arn't an issue (remember VPPs can eat up character points), there is no problem with a VPP. I wouldn't allow a VPP of naked power advantages though. I'd have a VPP of Sword/Kick stuff, as well as a mundane sword/kick outside of it. That way if they want a fancy sword or kick, they can buy it in the VPP, or if they want vanillia, they can just attack. Variable Advantage would be another way to change up what advantages an attack could have, if you don't go full VPP route.

2) I'm probably going with the nasty compound powers bought entirely in the framework, but nothing says it couldn't be a Multipower of different kicks /swords. Just have 1-2 multipowers, and pick appropreate slots.

3) This is really game dependant. Where power defense is common, the 1d6 CON drain might be useless, while in a game with little to no power Defense, it is very good. Also, try looking at the Damage Classes of powers when you compare them, rather than Active Points or Real Points.

 

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful

[Duane From RI]

Re: Linked in a VPP, Looking for Opinons

 

Your mention of Damage Class is very pertinent.

A 2½d6HKA AP is 10DC and can climb another 4DC just from a 20 STR. A 2½d6HKA and a 1d6 Drain are an 8DC attack and a 2DC attack. They may be compounded in total Active Points but as individual attacks they are not equivalent.

Hmmm, must keep thinking....

[Duane From RI]

Re: Linked in a VPP, Looking for Opinons

 

I really new to this forum and haven't really played Hero System since the Big Blue Book. Can anyone enlighten me on why Linking two slots in a Power Framework is frowned upon?

[Chimera 12]

Re: Linked in a VPP, Looking for Opinons

 

I really new to this forum and haven't really played Hero System since the Big Blue Book. Can anyone enlighten me on why Linking two slots in a Power Framework is frowned upon?

 

It's not just Linking. 6E1 398, under "General Rules / No Combining Of Frameworks":

 

[...] [A] slot in a Power Framework cannot add to or modify a slot in the same or another Power Framework, or the same or another Power Framework as a whole.

 

Several examples then follow. Basically, not being allowed to Link two or more slots together is just a special case of a more general rule -- if one slot isn't allowed to "add to or modify" another, then certainly neither of them can depend on the other in order to function, either. As to why exactly that general rule exists...I'll leave that to people with more practical experience and/or better theorycraft than mine as it's getting late here and I can't for the life of me think quite straight enough anymore to come up with what I feel should be obvious examples.

 

Anyway, as the text goes on to explain on the following page, it is in fact legal to have slots that interact with Powers bought outside any Framework, or to have two or more Linked Powers in the same slot as long as their combined Active Points don't exceed the reserve. (In fact, Linking them is the only legal way to have two or more Powers in the same slot.) So that might help you a bit -- you can in fact have two or more Linked powers in the same VPP as long as they're notionally in the same 'slot' and thus don't in combination exceed the Control Cost, and they can add (or even be Linked) to something outside the Pool proper.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Linked in a VPP, Looking for Opinons

 

I really new to this forum and haven't really played Hero System since the Big Blue Book. Can anyone enlighten me on why Linking two slots in a Power Framework is frowned upon?

 

Because:

 

A) Slots in a VPP have no actual cost; The VPP has a cost, the slots simply take up a chunk of the pool.

 

and

 

in a VPP the power linked to may not always be active.

 

When making a "linked" power in a VPP, it is better to build the VPP slot as a compound power with no linked limitation. Which kind of answers one of the first questions.

 

On that note, I would never allow a VPP for martial arts. Mostly because I don't see Martial Arts as something where you "switch out" powers in any fashion. Generally, when I design super Martial Artists, I go for a multipower - nice, cheap slots, that are permanent.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Linked in a VPP, Looking for Opinons

 

The Skill Roll tends to only come into play when you switch VPP Slots in combat. So the cost of high AP (aside from the high cost of the Control) is that it tends to limit characters to pre-allocate their VPP Pool; Which can always be interesting from a Game Play perspective in the planning stages of the session.

 

Linked can be used if both Power occupy the same Slot, which drives up the Control Cost a bit, get what you pay for: versatility.

[Escafarc]

Re: Linked in a VPP, Looking for Opinons

 

On that note' date=' I would never allow a VPP for martial arts. Mostly because I don't see Martial Arts as something where you "switch out" powers in any fashion. Generally, when I design super Martial Artists, I go for a multipower - nice, cheap slots, that are permanent.[/quote']

 

As much as I like the Martail Arts Skills for Heroic level games for Champions I find the Multipower method better. Especialy for the "upper tier" fighters who have studied multible styles. It's almost like going back to Champions 1E

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Linked in a VPP, Looking for Opinons

 

Well, I use both. The manuevers are bought as normal. Then I price out Naked Advantages for them to put onto those, and each slot is generally a Naked Modifier applied to Strength (Only for HTH Damage -1/2).

 

I'll post a write-up in a bit.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Linked in a VPP, Looking for Opinons

 

In Champions Powers I have seen a handful of compound powers built with the limitation "HKA Must Do BODY (-1/2)". The secondary attacks often have the Linked limitation as well.

However -

These constructions are not normally efficient in a VPP. A Compound Power is high Active Points which makes it harder to switch in the middle of combat (assuming skill roll still required) and Linked is normally not allowed.

...

 

If the concept demands using a VPP to describe you can always use the "Limited Class Of Powers Available" to Limit the pool instead of the slots.

 

See this build of Firestorm for an example.