VPP/Multiform - Assume GM is Insane

[Duane From RI]

Please tell me what you think of this conceit:

Imagine a 400 point superherioc character in a Age of Mythology campaign (Alfar, Titans, Oni, Menehune, so on).

The character is built with the following VPP:

106 point pool, 106 point control cost (zero phase action)

The only power allowed in the pool is a 80 points of Multiform with the Instant Change Adder, Inherent

Every form must take the skill Mythologics at +10 or higher

Every form may only take skills/characteristics/powers/talents appropriate to a defined heroic profession, racial profile and available equipment list

Every form must comply with Damage Class and Defense Levels established for the phase of the campaign

No form may take Power Framework

No form may take Multiform

Some perks may be required in every form in order to be available in any one form

Some Complications may be required in every form

 

So now, the GM intends to make the following allowances:

The player is allowed to build this VPP, in fact all players are expected to build this VPP.

Mechanically, a character spends a Zero Phase action to switch to a True From, a Zero Phase Action to change the VPP and then a Zero Phase Action to change into the new form - but these three must be the only three actions in the Phase

If a power/characteristic in one form is adjusted either positively or negatively and a new form has a power pretty close to it, then the adjustment carries through.

All ingredients to any form must be written out prior to play that session and in a pretty simple spreadsheet built to adjust dice up/down

 

So the Question Is - Has the GM laid the groundwork for a game that combines freeform and point balance?

[Kraven Kor]

Re: VPP/Multiform - Assume GM is Insane

 

Your GM is insane.

 

I think Shapeshifting, or Multiform with more than one form, would be better. Possibly cheaper, too. 400 / 5 = 80 CP for the first alternate 400 point form, 5 points for each additional.

 

That being said, a 400 point character with 80 point alternate forms is NEVER going to use those alternate forms and have any fair chance of defeating a 400 point NPC. I have also seen first hand what 0-phase multiforms with multiple forms can do.

[ghost-angel]

Re: VPP/Multiform - Assume GM is Insane

 

Generally.. it's cheaper, and easier, just to buy a Whole Bunch Of Alternate Forms.

 

+30 Points gets you 64 Alternate Forms. Anymore character sheets floating around and you've likely out complicated yourself. . .

[Kraven Kor]

Re: VPP/Multiform - Assume GM is Insane

 

Yeah, had a first time player who wanted to play a combination of that tiny Wasp chick, and someone with Duplication. She wanted hundreds of duplicates - basically to turn into a swarm.

 

I... convinced her she didn't want to damage my sanity that badly

[Duane From RI]

Re: VPP/Multiform - Assume GM is Insane

 

Maybe I'm miss reading Multiform but,

doesn't 80 Real Points of Multiform get an Alternate form built from 400?

Also - is that 80 Real Points and 80 Active Points?

[Kraven Kor]

Re: VPP/Multiform - Assume GM is Insane

 

No, I'm reading your post wrong. I was figuring 80 point alternate forms, not 80 points worth of multiform.

 

Still, I'd recommend the x2 forms for 5 points over doing a VPP for Multiform.

 

And your GM is still insane

[Duane From RI]

Re: VPP/Multiform - Assume GM is Insane

 

ghost-angel - your point about 64 character sheets is well taken. My thought was that if Hero Designer were present just before play, a certain number of configurations could exist just before a session and then reconfigured before the next session. The goal was to approach freeform gaming asymptotically. A dice based game where some sort of number defines balance but insanity - err imagination - gets to run wild.

[ghost-angel]

Re: VPP/Multiform - Assume GM is Insane

 

Multiform is best used when each 'change' is really a different Personality.

 

Otherwise there are a host of easier and less redundant ways of getting the same effect.

 

Variable Special Effect; Variable Advantage; VPPs with Cosmic to switch both Powerset and SFX set; Combinations of those.

 

If you really want to reconfigure before each session/between sessions - don't build a Power around it - just allow it to some degree or other. Especially if you want actual free-form gaming.

[Duane From RI]

Re: VPP/Multiform - Assume GM is Insane

 

My intent is to just let each player juggle 400 points during each session with very specific allows/disallows. This was a thought exercise - what would a power construction need to look like if it had to. As the GM I am free to be insane and allow as much flexibility as I feel fits the campaign (which is a hell of alot). Since I have been sold on the idea that the bad guys achieve balance according to Damage Class/Defense/OCV/DCV and not points - I can afford flexibility to the players and to myself.

I like thought exercises though.

[Utech]

Re: VPP/Multiform - Assume GM is Insane

 

My intent is to just let each player juggle 400 points during each session with very specific allows/disallows.

The simplest way to handle this is to just make that a part of your campaign groundrules. No need to write up the Power. Just tell everyone that they can juggle 400 points during each session with very specific allows/disallows. And done.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: VPP/Multiform - Assume GM is Insane

 

Please tell me what you think of this conceit:

Imagine a 400 point superherioc character in a Age of Mythology campaign (Alfar, Titans, Oni, Menehune, so on).

The character is built with the following VPP:

106 point pool, 106 point control cost (zero phase action)

The only power allowed in the pool is a 80 points of Multiform with the Instant Change Adder, Inherent

Every form must take the skill Mythologics at +10 or higher

Every form may only take skills/characteristics/powers/talents appropriate to a defined heroic profession, racial profile and available equipment list

Every form must comply with Damage Class and Defense Levels established for the phase of the campaign

No form may take Power Framework

No form may take Multiform

Some perks may be required in every form in order to be available in any one form

Some Complications may be required in every form

 

OK, all those restrictions should be a limitation on the control cost. Given Multiform still allows a wide array of choices, let's call it -1/2. That makes the control cost 71, so a total cost of 177.

 

For 175 points, I can have Multiform, 80 points, instant change (+5), 2,048 forms (11 doublings; +55) Inherent (+1/4). Restricting what I can do in those forms could be -0 SFX or carry a limitation further reducing the cost. Do you need more than 2,048 forms?

 

So now, the GM intends to make the following allowances:

The player is allowed to build this VPP, in fact all players are expected to build this VPP.

Mechanically, a character spends a Zero Phase action to switch to a True From, a Zero Phase Action to change the VPP and then a Zero Phase Action to change into the new form - but these three must be the only three actions in the Phase

 

That seems a further limitation. Normally, 3 0 phase actions leave me a full phase.

 

If a power/characteristic in one form is adjusted either positively or negatively and a new form has a power pretty close to it, then the adjustment carries through.

All ingredients to any form must be written out prior to play that session and in a pretty simple spreadsheet built to adjust dice up/down

 

So the Question Is - Has the GM laid the groundwork for a game that combines freeform and point balance?

 

I'd agree with many other posters who have suggested simply making the ability a campaign default and ignore the need to write it up.

 

It makes the entire group highly flexible, so many challenges become easily overcome. PLAYERS: remember to print multiple copies of all forms you write up - your teammates may need the same abilities at some point. Bad Guy is Vulnerable to fire? Here, everyone, switch to this Fire Elemental form.

[Duane From RI]

Re: VPP/Multiform - Assume GM is Insane

 

I agree that super flexibilty will allow the players to exploit any weakness. Each character may need to come up with his own Special Effect based on class/race/equipment but that's not hard: Example

A Sword carrying/Savate Kicking Speedster could make sparks jump from his swords

The Wizard may know the Truename of a Fire Elemental

The Spellsinger sings of the power of the Sun

The Priest of the Lion Goddess takes on aspects of her goddess' desert connection (see Sekhmet)

However I like that idea. I let the players know a session before that they will be visiting Niflhiem and then let them cogitate. All the Ice Trolls will be vulnerable to heat, sure, that gives me the GM the license to make the environment tougher, put more of them out there, put a mini-boss in early, or otherwise get creative with some other aspect of danger yet still feel confident that the critters themselves are vulnerable enough that I won't TPK.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: VPP/Multiform - Assume GM is Insane

 

Then yeah you might want to just give each of them a VPP that gives them the powers / skills directly, within the limits of their chosen "schtick" at the time", rather than a VPP for multiform. Basically, the VPP would have a common modifier of "Limited SFX" and those SFX would have to fit with the "archetype" they choose.

 

Will make it easier to juggle in Hero Designer as well - they can configure powers as slots in the VPP, rather than constantly making multiple character sheets.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: VPP/Multiform - Assume GM is Insane

 

I think the combination of VPP with Multiform is one of the most powerful tools in the system.

It is just about the only way to build certain types of characters like Rogue from X-men and DCU's Parasite:

 

I'm changing course here a little bit and working on one of Superman's signature villains and arguably one of the hardest to translate into HERO - The Parasite.

 

 

Like all of the heroes, I want to build him on 350 points as well. I think this is possible because Superman and all of the other 'naturally powered' heroes (of this thread) abilities have been built using the 'Affected by Adjustments as an EC' Limitation. By building all the heroes with this I avoid having to build Parasite's Drain with the 'All Powers Simultaneously (+2)' level of Variable Effect.

 

With this in mind I would appreciate any feedback regarding the following power set for Parasite:

 

36 Do You Feel Yourself Getting Weaker?: Drain Any Biological SFX Ability 3d6+1 (standard effect: 10 points), any [biological] power one at a time (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Hour; +1) (82 Active Points); Limited Special Effect Only vs. Biological Abilities (-1/2), Restrainable (-1/2), Limited Power Skin Contact Required (-1/4) 3

 

36 Hurts Doesn't It?: Energy Blast 6d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Attack Versus Limited Defense (Power Defense; +1 1/2) (90 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Restrainable (-1/2), Linked (Do You Feel Yourself Getting Weaker?; -1/4), Limited Power Skin Contact Required (-1/4)

 

128 Now I Have Your Powers!: Variable Power Pool, 100 base + 28 control cost, No Skill Roll Required (+1) (200 Active Points); Character Has No Choice Regarding How Powers Change (Also Gains Biological Disadvantages ; -1/2), VPP Powers Can Be Changed Only In Given Circumstance (Linked To Drain; -1/2), Conditional Power Powers Fade At Same Rate As Drain Recovers (-1/2), Limited Class Of Powers Available Limited (-1/2), Limited Power Abilities Gained Proportional ToThose Drained (-1/2)

0 1) Multiform (500 Character Points in the most expensive form) (100 Active Points) Real Cost: 100

 

Like nukes, it should be treated as a tool of last resort.

[Duane From RI]

Re: VPP/Multiform - Assume GM is Insane

 

I have thoroughly looked at VPP. It is feasible once I wrap my brain around HKA with Advantage vice HKA compunded with Drain. 100 Active Points of an HKA with Advantage is far more dangerous in this campaign then 100 Active Points split between an HKA and a Drain. The only way to introduce Linked in a VPP is with compound powers. Without Linked, separate attack rolls are required. Of course as GM, I can specify the max DC of any one attack or the max DC of a primary and secondary attacks in a compound. Truth is even if I go as free-form as possible I have to do that anyways.

A further complication is Martial Manuevers - use them or not. Melee-ists that can analogize to weapons can Martial Manuever with the FMove element. Melee-ists with HTH effects and Spell Casters (including Touching Spells) can not utilize the FMove element. Of course Combat Running while more expensive than the FMove element is nonetheless 9 measly points.

I figured I'd at least think about the Multiform in a VPP concept. I was looking at it more as a guideline as to what is reasonably the maximum ceiling of flexibility. My assessment is that with no more than 212 points, probably less, a character can have as many power configurations as the GM is willing to put up with.