Help with power

[JmOz]

Ok, I know the F/X I want (Throw gas pellet, if they do not have the NND type defence they start coughing, etc...)

 

Mechanicaly I want it to basicaly be pass a CON check if they fail they are at 1/2 DCV, 1/2 OCV until they are out of the AE or pass a con roll (They get a con roll each phase)

 

So how would you build it?

[Escafarc]

Re: Help with power

 

Drain DCV and OCV (I think this would be +1/2), NND, AOE, Continuing Charge

or a Flash vs Targeting Senses

I don't have my books with me but that's where I would start.

[JmOz]

Re: Help with power

 

I was thinking about Flash, (as it does what I want) the problem comes with the fact that it is not a sensory effect, but rather a gaging type of thing...keep wanting to do something with CE on it, but it is a square peg in a round hole

 

Maybe entangle as well...

[Bloodstone]

Re: Help with power

 

Possibly Change Environment, though I'm not sure that there is an environmental condition that halve both OCV and DCV.

 

Of course, being Grabbed by Telekinesis would provide such penalties, but I'm not sure how you would prevent people from breaking the grab with STR without specialized advantages.

[Rapier]

Re: Help with power

 

Change Environment has the ability to reduce Characteristic Rolls (and EGO as a separate option). OCV and DCV are now both Characteristics.

 

You could use CE to reduce DEX, OCV and DCV by a certain amount and then limit them so that the MAX effect is 1/2.

 

CE has a suffocation option also.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think there is a clear cut easy option to get where you want to go.

[JmOz]

Re: Help with power

 

CE - CON Roll... something similar to be blinded... idea is starting to rattle in head

[JmOz]

Re: Help with power

 

anyone remember seeing a bit on alternate rolls for Entangle other than Ego?

[Escafarc]

Re: Help with power

 

Only Contortionist and Lockpicking Rolls in the APG.

[JmOz]

Re: Help with power

 

Found something interesting on page 57 of the APG, attacks against alternate characteristics. Now I need to determine if the characteristic (Con) is more common or less common than STR. I'm thinking it is pretty close to the same.

 

Thinking about my experience, CON tends to be slightly higher than strength on most characters (5-15 points worth or so), with some characters blowing it out of the water in the other direction. This lends me to think of it as either a +0 or +1/4 advantage...got to think and research some more...

[Haerandir]

Re: Help with power

 

I'd say they're 'equally common'. Everyone has both (unless they go out of their way not to), and they cost the same amount these days.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Help with power

 

Choking Agent: Drain BODY 1 1/2d6, Area Of Effect (4m Radius; +1/4), Expanded Effect (x2 Characteristics or Powers simultaneously) (OCV & DCV; +1/2), Constant (+1/2), Damage Over Time (5-6 damage increments, damage occurs every Turn, +2); Attack Versus Alternate Defense (Life Support (Self-Contained Breathing); target holds his breath; All Or Nothing; -1/2)

64 active, 43 real

 

Will result in -1 OCV/DCV per turn for 1 minute. You decide how to power it to be in the area for that long or if it is a single exposure effect.

[JmOz]

Re: Help with power

 

Had a really weird idea, but what about a PRE attack of some nature...

 

Might be good...

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Help with power

 

I'll throw out C.E. buy both OCV and DCV to what would make most heroes have half the CV. For example -4. And just have the caveat that it lowers the CV at that value or no more than 1/2 the original CV. For example normal person with 4 CV would only be lowered to 2 CV NOT 0 CV. And and the rest of modifiers as you want.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Help with power

 

Why are you trying to replicate the Drain power? I understand that it doesn't take someone straight to 1/2 OCV DCV, but I'm not sure that it necessarily should. Buy the Drain with a limit "No more than 1/2 starting value" for -1/2. The mechanics are there and it technically does exactly what you want it to do.

 

At 3 OCV, 1/2 OCV is 2, so that's only a -1. At 6 OCV, it's -3. Being able to generate -4 OCV, which will cover almost all situations, would be 20 points of effect, which requires 6d6 of Drain to do in a single roll. Take it from there.

[JmOz]

Re: Help with power

 

because I am an old 4-5th edition guy who has not completly internalised that CV's are now characteristics in 6th... (and I always thought drain dex only to effect cv was cheese). Good call on it...

[Gideon]

Re: Help with power

 

Why are you trying to replicate the Drain power? I understand that it doesn't take someone straight to 1/2 OCV DCV, but I'm not sure that it necessarily should. Buy the Drain with a limit "No more than 1/2 starting value" for -1/2. The mechanics are there and it technically does exactly what you want it to do.

 

At 3 OCV, 1/2 OCV is 2, so that's only a -1. At 6 OCV, it's -3. Being able to generate -4 OCV, which will cover almost all situations, would be 20 points of effect, which requires 6d6 of Drain to do in a single roll. Take it from there.

 

According to 6E page 141, column 1 paragraph 5 Defense Powers: OCV and DCV count as defenses against Drain which halves the results of the drain. So you actually need 40 points of effect to get -4 DCV. If your lucky, you could achieve that on 7d6, but most likely you would need 10d6 to 12d6 (14d6 if you want to standard affects it).

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Help with power

 

Yep, good catch. So, applying the 6d6 to both you would get -4 OCV and -2 DCV, which is okay with me for an effect.

[casualplayer]

Re: Help with power

 

How about Mind Control Based on CON Single Command: Cough Uncontrollably?

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Help with power

 

That still wouldn't have the same combat effect. Generally, if you are creating an effect that modifies characteristics, then you should use the powers that modify characteristics.

[casualplayer]

Re: Help with power

 

That still wouldn't have the same combat effect. Generally' date=' if you are creating an effect that modifies characteristics, then you should use the powers that modify characteristics.[/quote']

 

Since I could do Mind Control Based on CON Single Command: Don't Move at All as a paralytic and drop target's CV to 0, which most people would be violently opposed to do, I think I can create something that causes people to cough, coughing defined as only halving CV, and would only need >CON or maybe >CON+10 to accomplish. 6-8d6 would be sufficient to take effect on most people, has a built in CON Roll to shrug off the effects.

 

Drain has benefits like the Fade Rate representing a slow recovery from the effects of the gas but its effects are going to bottom out the CVs of some people rather than halve them. CV being Drain resistant make this a pretty costly build.

[JmOz]

Re: Help with power

 

especialy when the effect is very similar to a flash, but (and I admit it is a problem) that effects all targeting senses

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Help with power

 

Why are you trying to replicate the Drain power? I understand that it doesn't take someone straight to 1/2 OCV DCV, but I'm not sure that it necessarily should. Buy the Drain with a limit "No more than 1/2 starting value" for -1/2. The mechanics are there and it technically does exactly what you want it to do.

 

At 3 OCV, 1/2 OCV is 2, so that's only a -1. At 6 OCV, it's -3. Being able to generate -4 OCV, which will cover almost all situations, would be 20 points of effect, which requires 6d6 of Drain to do in a single roll. Take it from there.

 

Quite frankly, I went this way because I find it a heck of a lot easier than going the dex drain to affect CV like marbles were orginally written up in Ninja Hero.

 

Another suggestion I have would be to build a minor transform with set effect say 7D6 = 21 body should be enough to transform a person to a person at 1/2 OCV and 1/2 DCV. And the CON roll would instantly heal a person back.

[JmOz]

Re: Help with power

 

Ok, went a bit silly here, but I think I have it.

 

In the APG there are rules for applying limitations to a character, as well as disads. So I am wondering, given such things as Concentration and extratime, if the solution might not be there (Impose Concentration and extratime on say the characters DCV?...)

[JmOz]

Re: Help with power

 

So thinking right now that it would be a 15-20 point physical disad (Extreme allergies, Must make con roll or suffer 1/2 OCV, DCV, and -3 PER and reduced to 1/2 phase action until away from alegent and makes a succesful con roll +1 subsequent rolls, one roll per phase) so the power would look something like this

 

Cause physical disad, -3 Sight based PER roll, explosion, OIF, CC 6 lasting one minute, range based on Str, Deflectable

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Help with power

 

Quite frankly, I went this way because I find it a heck of a lot easier than going the dex drain to affect CV like marbles were orginally written up in Ninja Hero.

 

Another suggestion I have would be to build a minor transform with set effect say 7D6 = 21 body should be enough to transform a person to a person at 1/2 OCV and 1/2 DCV. And the CON roll would instantly heal a person back.

In 6th, DEX is no longer linked to CV, so that really isn't a problem. 7d6 Minor Transform is quite expensive and no definite effect - how many targets have 10 BODY?

 

Drain will have a consistent effect regardless of the target. If you make it NND, which is a limitation in this case, you get the gas effect.

 

My point is, you are modifying the target's characteristics and it seems like you are trying to avoid the basic power that does just that. Is it expensive? Yes, and it should be. Taking a target to 1/2 OCV, 1/2 DCV, and -3 PER is not a trivial power. That sets the target up for a bad day.

 

Choking Agent: Drain OCV, DCV, PER 3d6, Area Of Effect (4m Radius; +1/4), Expanded Effect (x3 Characteristics or Powers simultaneously) (OCV, DCV, PER; +1), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1); OAF (-1), Attack Versus Alternate Defense (Life Support (Self-Contained Breathing); target holds his breath; All Or Nothing; -1/2), Cannot Reduce Below 1/2 of Starting Value or -4 PER (-1/2), Range Based On STR (-1/4), Can Be Deflected (-1/4)

28 Real, 97 Active

 

The limitations prevent the target's DCV from "bottoming out". I think that's a pretty fairly built power and quite effective. I would probably eliminate the OCV penalty in this build to make it a bit cheaper and almost as effective.

 

Flash gets it done the easiest I believe. The cinematic version (which fades after a turn or so):

 

Choking Agent: Sight and Smell/Taste Groups Flash 9d6, Area Of Effect (4m Radius; +1/4); OAF (-1), Attack Versus Alternate Defense (Life Support (Self-Contained Breathing); target holds his breath; All Or Nothing; -1/2), Successful CON Roll reduces penalties to -2 OCV, -2 DCV, -2 PER for 1 Phase (-1/2), Can Be Deflected (-1/4), Range Based On STR (-1/4)

Real 18, Active 62

 

The version that lasts for a minute:

Choking Agent: Sight and Smell/Taste Groups Flash 1d6 (standard effect: 1 Segments), Area Of Effect (4m Radius; +1/4), Damage Over Time, Lock out (cannot be applied multiple times) (33-64 damage increments, damage occurs every Segment, +3 1/4); OAF (-1), Attack Versus Alternate Defense (Life Support (Self-Contained Breathing); target holds his breath; All Or Nothing; -1/2), Successful CON Roll reduces penalties to -2 OCV, -2 DCV, -2 PER for 1 Phase (-1/2), Can Be Deflected (-1/4), Range Based On STR (-1/4)

Real 13, Active 45

 

I call that the cheese build, but it does exactly what a choking agent like tear gas would do: make you effectively stunned and blind except when you might be able to fight through the pain and disorientation. Even then you are not going to be at your best. I don't know as I'd allow this for all types of attacks, but I think for a gas attack this works.