Requires A Skill Roll: Skill Vs. Skill Contests?

[AlHazred]

I'm considering using a modified version of Requires A Skill Roll for a particular set of powers I'm making. The modification would be to allow for "Roll vs. Roll" mechanics. So, for instance, in order to successfully decrypt the enemy battle plans and gain a benefit to Tactics, the character must make a Cryptography Roll vs. the opponent's Cryptography Roll.

 

In 5th Edition, you had "1/4 more Limitation - RSR Skill is subject to Skill Versus Skill contests," which did not make it into the 6th Edition, neither 6E1 nor APG.

 

So, if I'm going to add this to my designs, what do people think the Limitation value should be? Is this a case where 1/4 is fair, or should the value be higher or lower? What's the consensus opinion?

[dmjalund]

Re: Requires A Skill Roll: Skill Vs. Skill Contests?

 

questions I feel need asking

- if the person does not have the skill, do they default to a CHAR based roll

- if so, what penalty would that CHAR based roll be at?

[Fireg0lem]

Re: Requires A Skill Roll: Skill Vs. Skill Contests?

 

I think it depends on how likely other people are to have the skill. If it's something like Tactics, then -1/4 more seems fair. If it's something like Science Skill: Thermodynamics, then -1/4 seems a bit much unless you anticipate a lot of people having it.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Requires A Skill Roll: Skill Vs. Skill Contests?

 

So the powers are basically: opposed roll, if you win you get a bonus?

 

Is this a power a player buys or one that the GM has constructed (such as finding the enemy plans, or interrogating a captured spy)?

 

Finally, if you lose does your opponet get a bonus? (false information?)

[Rapier]

Re: Requires A Skill Roll: Skill Vs. Skill Contests?

 

It depends a great deal on what the power is. In many cases it's almost assumed that their will be contested skill rolls (eg Super-Decryption).

 

It's difficult to say without knowing what kind of power you are building and how you are building it. In many cases I would simply consider it SFX and not worth a modifier at all. Ad hoc modifiers are part and parcel of Hero and it would be very easy to consider a contested skill roll as little more than a 'modifier to your success.'

[AlHazred]

Re: Requires A Skill Roll: Skill Vs. Skill Contests?

 

I'm thinking this could be used as an alternative mechanic. Hero already models several things as Attacks, i.e., there's a contest to determine whether or not an effect is carried out. Aside from the Attack Roll contest, the only other kind of contest in Hero is the Skill vs. Skill roll (or CHA vs. CHA, or what have you).

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Requires A Skill Roll: Skill Vs. Skill Contests?

 

So it is a mechanic and not a power? In that case go ahead but I don't think a mechanic needs any limitations.

[phookz]

Re: Requires A Skill Roll: Skill Vs. Skill Contests?

 

I think it would be the same limitation as the normal Requires a Roll. In general, making it a skill-vs-skill contest shouldn't change the value of this limitation - it's a wash. Some opponents will have a lower skill, some a higher. If this were put on a character with an very low or very high roll you might consider altering the value of the limitation, but I think it's probably just splitting hairs at that point.

[Fireg0lem]

Re: Requires A Skill Roll: Skill Vs. Skill Contests?

 

I think it would be the same limitation as the normal Requires a Roll. In general' date=' making it a skill-vs-skill contest shouldn't change the value of this limitation - it's a wash. Some opponents will have a lower skill, some a higher. If this were put on a character with an very low or very high roll you might consider altering the value of the limitation, but I think it's probably just splitting hairs at that point.[/quote']

That depends on what happens if both people fail, though. If you're assuming that if the user fails but the opposer fails harder, then it works, it's probably a wash. If you're assuming that if the user fails, the power fails regardless of opposition, it's might be a limitation.

[phookz]

Re: Requires A Skill Roll: Skill Vs. Skill Contests?

 

That depends on what happens if both people fail' date=' though. If you're assuming that if the user fails but the opposer fails harder, then it works, it's probably a wash. If you're assuming that if the user fails, the power fails regardless of opposition, it's might be a limitation.[/quote']

 

Good point - there is a subtle difference. I don't think it's enough of a difference to warrant a change in the value of the limitation, however.

[AlHazred]

Re: Requires A Skill Roll: Skill Vs. Skill Contests?

 

We used to use this to model the sort of "Magic Resistance" used in D&D. You have contested rolls to determine if Powers that normally work automatically (like, say, an Area Effect RKA fireball) take effect on all applicable opponents. The caster makes his Magic Skill Roll and the opponent rolls a Magic Resistance check. Depending on the setting, Magic Resistance might be a Skill you can buy up, a Talent you can't, or an inherent Characteristic-based Roll (if your setting adds a magic Characteristic, say MANA, to characters). Then it's probably worth an added Limitation value, since it has a significant impact on Powers.

 

I'm wondering if the Active Point penalty should apply to only the caster, or to both caster and target.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Requires A Skill Roll: Skill Vs. Skill Contests?

 

I don't see a RSR at all here. From your example, you can't use Tactics without a Cryptography roll. I would say this is a case of a Cryptography vs. Cryptography roll. If the code can be cracked, then let the Cryptography work like a complimentary skill. If the code isn't cracked, then let Tactics work but with a significant penalty because of lack of information, just as you would apply bonuses/penalties to a normal Tactics roll based on circumstances.

 

I would only allow something like a RSR to be put on a skill if it was bought like a power, say an Unlock spell might have a RSR - Magic Skill applied to a Lockpicking skill.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: Requires A Skill Roll: Skill Vs. Skill Contests?

 

From Hero 6th, vol 1, p389 (just above the RSR table):

 

"At the GM’s discretion, RAR Skill Rolls are also subject to Skill Versus Skill Contests."

 

The skill contest mechanic still exists in 6E, but apparently there's no change in the RSR limitation value for it, at least not officially.

[Rapier]

Re: Requires A Skill Roll: Skill Vs. Skill Contests?

 

I'm wondering if the Active Point penalty should apply to only the caster' date=' or to both caster and target.[/quote']

 

Assuming that a Power has a RAR (with penalty) limit AND is subject to a contested Skill Roll, then I would say...maybe.

 

Technically the Limitation shouldn't effect the other person. However, I can see a couple of opportunities (especially with some Heroic Level Magic Systems) where another character may have a Power that is subject to a penalty based upon the Active Points in the attack.