Mental Powers Contest

[Fearghus]

I had a weird situation come up in a game last weekend and I ruled a certain way that made a player sort of unhappy, but oh well. Below is the situation, and I will explain how I ruled after, and I would like to know what everyone else thinks. At the time I could not find an appropriate rule in the book to cover this situation and while I have not re-read the entire book to find out I think my ruling makes the most sense.

 

So an NPC was being compelled to act a certain way (aggressively) by a drug that was administered by a bad guy. I built the drug as mind control with the set effect that you attack anyone you see with what ever attacks you may have at your disposal. There is a mentalist in the group of players that tried to wrest control of the NPCs mind from the drug by using his own mind control power. I ruled that the player would have to trump (roll higher effect) the existing power before he could get control of the NPC.

 

So say the NPCs ego is 12, the drug in his system had an effect roll of something like 54. So I ruled the PC trying to gain control of the NPC had to achieve an effect roll of at least 55 to control the NPC.

 

So for future reference I want to know if there is already an existing rule in the book for this situation that anyone knows of? If there is not how would you like to see it handled if this situation was in your game?

 

Also BTW we are playing 5th not 6th, but I imagine the same question applies to both.

 

Thanks

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Mental Powers Contest

 

In 6th, there is a subsection about competing mental powers in book 1. IIRC the way it works is you need a higher effect to break the mind control and at GM's discression a lower effect can give them bonuses to breakout checks.

 

The way I understand the "higher effect" to work, it means a higher (rolled #) - (Ego + Bonus). So if you get a 54 but the NPC is strongly opposed to killing everyone he sees with anything he has (a pacifist or probably anyone), you need a +30 effect (or ony 12 after EGO+30). If I want him to stop, and he is not very opposed to this (normally, barring the mind control) then I need an EGO+10 effect or so (thus a 35 would work).

 

That's how I understand it works.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Mental Powers Contest

 

The way I understand the "higher effect" to work' date=' it means a higher (rolled #) - (Ego + Bonus). So if you get a 54 but the NPC is strongly opposed to killing everyone he sees with anything he has (a pacifist or probably anyone), you need a +30 effect (or ony 12 after EGO+30). If I want him to stop, and he is not very opposed to this (normally, barring the mind control) then I need an EGO+10 effect or so (thus a 35 would work).[/quote']

 

That's not the way I interpret it at all. You must actually achieve a higher total effect roll to break an existing mental effect. So if they rolled a 52, you have to roll a 53 or higher to completely break the target out.

 

If you do not wish to break an existing effect, but give separate effects that the target must respond to, and the target cannot simultaneously respond to both in a given circumstance, then the one with the higher margin wins for the time being. (For example, if given "Kill everyone in sight" and "Eat ice cream" at the same time, eating ice cream might win if it has a higher margin, until the target finds an ice cream cone he can shove in his mouth while pounding on the ice cream vendor....).

 

I believe to reduce a Breakout Roll penalty (when trying to break an existing effect but not rolling high enough) the required level of effect is the same as it was for the attacker. For example, if a target has an Ego of 14 and an attacker's Mind Control had a required level of Ego+20 (34), then if the attacker rolled 61 (-5 to the Breakout Roll) you'd have to roll between 39 and 61 to give them a reduced Breakout Roll penalty (e.g. rolling 45 would normally induce a Breakout Roll penalty of -2, so that would drop the target's Breakout Roll penalty for the original attack from -5 to -3).

[Fireg0lem]

Re: Mental Powers Contest

 

Yeah, Prestidigitator is right.

 

The thing about reducing breakout roll penalties is an optional rule, although I do suggest using it.

[MorpheousXO]

Re: Mental Powers Contest

 

In any case, you ruled correctly. Why was the player unhappy with that?

[mayapuppies]

Re: Mental Powers Contest

 

In any case' date=' you ruled correctly. Why was the player unhappy with that?[/quote']

 

My guess is because he rolled lower than needed or didn't have a strong enough Mind Control to roll above what was needed.

[Fearghus]

Re: Mental Powers Contest

 

My guess is because he rolled lower than needed or didn't have a strong enough Mind Control to roll above what was needed.

 

You hit the nail on the head... He was a few points short of being able to overcome the mind control. It was also that the story depended pretty strongly that the NPC be arrested, so if the PCs could just zap him with a mind control and prevent him from assaulting someone it would kind of have ruined the adventure.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Mental Powers Contest

 

You hit the nail on the head... He was a few points short of being able to overcome the mind control.

 

So the player should accept that the PC doesn't always succeed and move on. No reason the character can't be upset, of course.

 

It was also that the story depended pretty strongly that the NPC be arrested' date=' so if the PCs could just zap him with a mind control and prevent him from assaulting someone it would kind of have ruined the adventure.[/quote']

 

Different groups have different views on this one. Some would say that, where the GM fails to set the scene (eg. it IS possible for the PC to break out the NPC), then the chips should fall where they may - adventure nipped before it begins. Others would place the story above the mechanics. Of course, as GM, you can simply note that the effect roll on the NPC is the maximum the PC can achieve with a Pushed Haymaker, +1. IOW, this is less a power and more a plot device.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Mental Powers Contest

 

You hit the nail on the head... He was a few points short of being able to overcome the mind control. It was also that the story depended pretty strongly that the NPC be arrested' date=' so if the PCs could just zap him with a mind control and prevent him from assaulting someone it would kind of have ruined the adventure.[/quote']

 

I do try to avoid things like this. If I want it to happen, I talk tot he player beforehand to set the scene and then make it happen.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Mental Powers Contest

 

Make sure to give the player a big, important situation in which he can use his power to great effect. Sooth the ego a bit.

 

Of course, there might be ways to set the scene up so that the NPC is arrested even though the PCs are successful, too. For example, perhaps the NPC had already done some damage (maybe not serious injury, but still technically breaking the law...) before the PC managed to calm him, so the police can kindly thank the heroes for aiding them and haul the guy off to jail.