Vehicle Point cost 6th addition

[Doomslayer2007]

I don't know if this was discussed earlier but the point cost don't seem to add up on vehicles.

 

Let's take the F-15 Eagle as an example. Once I start putting in weapons and equipment like Sidewinder, Bombs, radar, etc. I end up exceeding 600 points. How do you accomodate those systems at that point level, as stated in the book?. Not to mention things like headlights on cars.

 

If I'm batman and want to make the batmobile, all these little extras start costing alot of points.

 

Any suggestions on what is fair?

 

Doomslayer

[Steve Long]

Re: Vehicle Point cost 6th addition

 

This doesn't seem to contain an actual rules question, but rather to be a conversation-starter, so I've moved it to the Discussion board.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Vehicle Point cost 6th addition

 

Maybe Batman with Batplane and Batmobile is not a 400 point character. If I want the same powers for my character from a Bulky focus, that will also get pretty expensive very quickly, won't it?

[Mickael]

Re: Vehicle Point cost 6th addition

 

I think the main problem here is: when trying to do the maths for the F-15 example, the OP's result is very high in comparison to the points indicated in the rulebook. How can this difference be explained?

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Vehicle Point cost 6th addition

 

The F-15 Eagle is either equipment (in a Heroic level game of Air Force pilots) or a plot device.

 

For the other stuff... remember you're paying the first however-many-points at 1/5 price. A 400 point character with a 400 point vehicle pays 80 points for the vehicle; if it's 600 points he pays 280 total, for 600 points worth of stuff. Especially considering that for that price the player is going to expect that his character can practically live in the vehicle (and might very well be able to!). "I paid 280 points for this. 280! You're telling me I don't have access to my mega cannons and my ultrawave blaster and my nuke-o-tron missiles, whenever I want?!??!!!?!111!!!11oneoneoneeleven"

[gojira]

Re: Vehicle Point cost 6th addition

 

I think the main problem here is: when trying to do the maths for the F-15 example' date=' the OP's result is very high in comparison to the points indicated in the rulebook. How can this difference be explained?[/quote']

 

 

I'd say it's because no one is manic about costing out each individual weapon system for every vehicle in the rulebooks. Vehicle aren't balanced, imo, and were never really meant to be. It was just a way for superheroes to get some cool transportation, and to mimic certain characters in the comics who did have vehicles.

 

 

Summary: vehicle points aren't balanced, so why bother? If you need a F15 with all the trimmings, write it up an damn the point costs. If your character is overpowered with a 600 point vehicle, then the GM is going to say "no" anyway, so it doesn't matter.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Vehicle Point cost 6th addition

 

I'd cover the major details. Try to cover every little possibility like headlights (landing lights?) and sun roof and you'll go crazy. Even a spoon can be worth hundreds of points. Start off modeling very roughly the basic Characteristics, movement, attacks, and defenses. If you can do that in a reasonable number of points, then prioritize the details you really want to add in and start fleshing it out a little where you can afford it.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Vehicle Point cost 6th addition

 

The F-15 Eagle is either equipment (in a Heroic level game of Air Force pilots) or a plot device.

 

For the other stuff... remember you're paying the first however-many-points at 1/5 price. A 400 point character with a 400 point vehicle pays 80 points for the vehicle; if it's 600 points he pays 280 total, for 600 points worth of stuff. Especially considering that for that price the player is going to expect that his character can practically live in the vehicle (and might very well be able to!). "I paid 280 points for this. 280! You're telling me I don't have access to my mega cannons and my ultrawave blaster and my nuke-o-tron missiles, whenever I want?!??!!!?!111!!!11oneoneoneeleven"

 

There's no longer "over character total extra costs" ... a 600 Point Vehicle always costs 120 Points - regardless of the Character Total. Complications though, no longer reduce the cost, it's always Total Cost/5.

 

The book advises against a Character purchasing a Base or Vehicle worth more than their Total Points however.

 

Also; most 'common' parts of a vehicle don't have to be paid for. Like Headlights, I would never - as a GM - charge a character to put Headlights, Car Stereo, or Standard Airbags, in their Vehicle. No more than I would charge them for a cell phone bought in the local mall.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Vehicle Point cost 6th addition

 

There's no longer "over character total extra costs" ... a 600 Point Vehicle always costs 120 Points - regardless of the Character Total. Complications though' date=' no longer reduce the cost, it's always Total Cast/5.[/quote']

 

D'oh!

[ghost-angel]

Re: Vehicle Point cost 6th addition

 

D'oh!

 

Eh, new editions - we have to unlearn then relearn. I had to go double check before I posted even. It's a simpler cost structure for sure!

[Doomslayer2007]

Re: Vehicle Point cost 6th addition

 

For those who are angry at me for my posting this question. "Take a cold shower"

 

Now, what I'm trying to get at is a good guideline for what a vehicle has and what a character needs to pay points for. If a character bought a limosine for his personal use I've got no problems giving him/her use of the headlights and horn for no additional cost but... where do you draw the line in what can be justified without additional character points. I cited the F-15 as the premier example. It has a bunch of items at no additional cost or so it would appear and these are combat effective items.

 

Doomslayer

[prestidigitator]

Re: Vehicle Point cost 6th addition

 

For those who are angry at me for my posting this question. "Take a cold shower"

 

Now, what I'm trying to get at is a good guideline for what a vehicle has and what a character needs to pay points for. If a character bought a limosine for his personal use I've got no problems giving him/her use of the headlights and horn for no additional cost but... where do you draw the line in what can be justified without additional character points. I cited the F-15 as the premier example. It has a bunch of items at no additional cost or so it would appear and these are combat effective items.

 

Angry? I haven't seen anyone angry about anything here. Just people trying to give advice on how to handle this kind of thing without going batty.

 

I'd try to draw the line where combat effectiveness begins, and use my best guess as to where real game-changing out-of-combat effectiveness exists too. Huge Non-Combat Movement would be one example of something that should definitely be paid for even though it may not have an immediate effect on combat. RADAR is another good one, but keep it simple; no need to go into every little detail of where and how and what RADAR can detect--leave that up to SFX and common sense.

 

Vehicles are a case where I'd make full use of things like Frameworks and equipment-doubling rules, too. Once you do the kind of optimization you would on an actual character, can you really expect an F-15 to come out to more points than a powerful superhero? If so, you've got to seriously reexamine your approach to constructing it; maybe try to do it more like you would build a superhero who has similar abilities.