How to build: "Mental Block"

[GAZZA]

How would you go about building a power that conceals your secret identity (and only information related to that) from Telepathy?

 

I'm thinking something like +30 Mental Defence, only to conceal secret identity (-2). Normally it would only be "hidden thoughts", requiring EGO + 10 (which would be 20 for this particular character - so a 12d6 Telepathy roll will impose a 7- roll to avoid giving it up), but with this it becomes an EGO + 40 roll (meaning that it is safe unless the roll is 50 or more, and the EGO roll is easier even if they make the roll). Does that seem reasonable, or is there a better way?

 

I did consider Mental Damage Reduction 50% with the same limitation, or some combination of the two, or even Mental Damage Negation. How would you guys build it?

 

The special effect, by the way, is that another mentalist is imposing a mental wall around that portion of the character's memories.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to build: "Mental Block"

 

Any of the methods you suggest might work well, but the cheapest and easiet way, generally, to avoid intrusive mental powers like telepathy is extra levels for mental breakout. Get a bunch of them 'just to avoid revealing X' and 'doesn't break the power, just prevents certain access' and you get hit with a Telepathy and roll breakout. If your breakout roll would break you out anyway, you are out. If it wouldn't then see if it would have without the extra levels. If so, that bit of information is inacsessible.

 

Also if you don't want someone to know that you are hiding something, you might consider IPE on that, although a 'Mental Wall' sounds like it might be obvious.

 

Another thing to think about is that you can oppose mental powers. Mentalist one could (for example) Mind Control the character NOT to give up his secret ID and Mentalist 2 would have to overcome the first Mentalist's total for his telepathy to work - I think there are rules for that in the book - and that may be the best way to do it as it does not require a seperate power build

[GAZZA]

Re: How to build: "Mental Block"

 

Extra levels with breakout, huh? That's a great idea (and no, it doesn't have to be inobvious; any telepath trying to find this out will become aware that there's something stopping them).

 

If you use the APG rules to buy 0 END Persistent with the -1/4 "only so the power doesn't become easier to resist", a 12d6 Mind Control that says, for example, "don't reveal your secret identity" (an action you would be inclined to do anyway, one assumes) with a roll of, say, 45 against an EGO of 10 gives a 4- roll to break out. On average that would take 54 tries, which may exceed the heat death of the universe, so that's probably a pretty good way to do it.

[dmjalund]

Re: How to build: "Mental Block"

 

I'm sure theres a way , but I can't seem to remember it at the monent...

[Naanomi]

Re: How to build: "Mental Block"

 

An always on Mental Shapeshift can (fairly cheaply) keep secret IDs safe from all but the most diligent Mentalists

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to build: "Mental Block"

 

An always on Mental Shapeshift can (fairly cheaply) keep secret IDs safe from all but the most diligent Mentalists

 

That could work, but, arguably, the character wouldn't be able to remember their secret ID either. That could be funny...

 

On that theme you could also use a mental transform, or invisibility to telepathy.

[Naanomi]

Re: How to build: "Mental Block"

 

I... would guess that a mental shapeshift doesn't confuse one's own natural thinking (unless the SFX was 'self delusion' or autohypnosis or something), but rather I envision it (in this case) as a lie of a secret ID so practiced that it is virtually another personality. Not every secret ID type would have that sort of life, but... Batman/Bruce Wayne might have that sort of dichotomy.

[ghost-angel]

Re: How to build: "Mental Block"

 

Invisibility - Mental Group - Only To Conceal Identity (-2)

[MyChampionsHero]

Re: How to build: "Mental Block"

 

can not remember right off hand, but in one of the earlier editions there was penalties to mental attacks that goes against a characters Pychological Limits, and having a Secret ID was one of those limits, so it would be a lot harder to retreave a person ID if they have actually applied it as a Disadvantage,

other then that, *grins evilly and one eye twitching* you can always say you have a dual personality when in hero ID, lol

[GAZZA]

Re: How to build: "Mental Block"

 

All good ideas. I'm with Naanomi in that I don't think a Mental Shape Shift would mean you don't know who you are, anymore than a physical Shape Shift would mean you didn't realise you looked different in a mirror - but a Mental Shape Shift would be more appropriate to pretend that you have a different secret identity (a cool effect, to be sure, but not what I'm going for here).

 

Mr Nobody - I agree, it is harder to get to the secret ID, but that's why it's a Hidden Thoughts instead of just Surface Thoughts. Even if you push it to the EGO + 20 level, though, we're talking about a character with a 10 EGO and no mental defence (so an average 10d6 Telepathy can still pull it out 50% of the time). There is a villain that, for their own reasons, wants to make sure that this hero's identity doesn't become known very easily - they're the one imposing the block.

 

Invisibility is an interesting option. Does Telepathy count as a sense then? I thought only Mind Scan worked that way. Though I guess if Mental Shape Shift can conceal your identity, it must be a sense.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to build: "Mental Block"

 

A mental shapeshift actually changes your mind - literally - just as a physical shapeshift changes your body. If you physically shapeshift into a fish you don't have arms and so can not pick stuff up. If you mentally shapeshift into something that doesn't know your secret ID, you don't know your secret ID. You might well know you can change back and find out who you are, but the point is that shapeshift really can change your abilities - be they physical or mental - including memory.

 

The thing is that if the information is THERE it can be found. The idea of a mental block is that the telepath knows where the information is but can not get to it.

 

Another way to do it would be with Images to the mental group, which would allow you to create a mental image of another secret ID over your own - but I don't think this is a subtle power like that - it is literally an information fortress.

[dsatow]

Re: How to build: "Mental Block"

 

My suggestion, and it probably depends on the prevalence of mental powers in your campaign, is to just see if there is a problem in using martial arts with mental powers. If there are lots of mental powers being flung about, I don't think this will be a problem.

[GAZZA]

Re: How to build: "Mental Block"

 

Martial arts with mental powers? I'm sorry, I don't understand.

[ghost-angel]

Re: How to build: "Mental Block"

 

Martial arts with mental powers? I'm sorry' date=' I don't understand.[/quote']

 

1) That has nothing to do with the OP.

2) See "The Ultimate Mentalist" which has a number of Mental Maneuvers built on the same premise as Martial Maneuvers.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to build: "Mental Block"

 

dsatow: We are talking about a way to block out a memory rather than a 'Hero System Block'.

 

Still, where maneouvres are allowed for mental combat, it is worth considering (although it is an ACTIVE defence and would not be useful if you were unconscious or the attack was subtle enough).

[GAZZA]

Re: How to build: "Mental Block"

 

The PC who will be getting this power will not be aware he has it to begin with, so that wouldn't work. But it's an interesting idea.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to build: "Mental Block"

 

Of course, even if Telepathy is ineffective, there is nothing to stop the Telepath 'kickin' 'im ina fork'* to cause him to recall his own Secret ID voluntarily, assuming he does have access to that information. Well, I say voluntarily...

 

*OK, Google is suprisingly reticent to throw up the derivation of that particular phrase, so bonus rep to the first person to identify where I got it from, and additional kudos if you can remember the character that says it. I can't, but I have my suspicions.

 

EDIT: Actually it is not that reticent: I just found it, and my suspicions are confirmed. Offer still stands though.

[GAZZA]

Re: How to build: "Mental Block"

 

Well it's used in the Discworld by Detritus a few times, and possibly Foul Old Ron. But I doubt pTerry invented the phrase.

 

Yes, he could still be forced to divulge it under torture or whatever. This is strictly a "one villain telepath doesn't want other villain telepaths to know" sort of deal - and as I say, to begin with, even the PC himself won't know.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to build: "Mental Block"

 

Well it's used in the Discworld by Detritus a few times, and possibly Foul Old Ron. But I doubt pTerry invented the phrase.

 

Yes, he could still be forced to divulge it under torture or whatever. This is strictly a "one villain telepath doesn't want other villain telepaths to know" sort of deal - and as I say, to begin with, even the PC himself won't know.

 

You'll have to wait for your Discworld rep as I've repped you too recently. The character I was thinking off was Nobby Nobbs, but, in fact I think it may have been Colon telling Nobby not to.

[GAZZA]

Re: How to build: "Mental Block"

 

Yes, you're right, it sounds better coming from the Sarge or Nobby.

[prestidigitator]

Re: How to build: "Mental Block"

 

My inclination would be a limited Shapeshift vs. the Mental Sense Group. With the proper Limitations it could be pretty cheap. I don't agree that such a power would keep the character himself from remembering his own secret ID. If you Shapeshift into a tree, you can still be aware and shift back in most cases. Shapeshift changes how you appear to the Sense Groups of others; it doesn't hamper you in any major way unless it's built to do so (though minor SFX-related complications can always crop up here and there). You could certainly build some sort of Side Effect (or perhaps just a Complication) that keeps the character from remembering who he really is though; might go well with an Accidental Change....

 

I'd probably even allow such a Shapeshift to keep a mentalist from finding the character with Mind Scan while he's in his secret ID (unless he knows to look for the mind that actually looks like the secret ID instead of the superhero). However, a thorough search through memories using a deep level of Telepathy will probably give enough clues to allow a mentalist to piece together who the secret ID is. No defense is absolute.

[GAZZA]

Re: How to build: "Mental Block"

 

That sounds a bit wooly though. I agree no defence is absolute, but if I go with a Mind Control "Don't reveal your secret identity" or a Mental Defence/Damage Reduction/Damage Negation only to protect secret ID, then we have a quantifiable mechanism for how hard it is to break the defence.

 

Also, this isn't a "pretend not to have a secret ID" or "pretend to have a different secret ID" effect - it is fine for an incoming mentalist to know that they're being specifically denied that information. So I don't think mental shapeshift, while an intriguing effect, quite works in this case.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: How to build: "Mental Block"

 

I would go with a combination of Invisibility to Mental Sense group (only to conceal identity from Telepathy -2), Images vs Mental Sense group (which plants a false identity that Telepathy will pick up and may assume it to be the actual identity) and Mental Damage Reduction (only vs Telepathy). The combination of those powers would make it darn near impossible for a Telepath to find the characters true identity.

[GAZZA]

Re: How to build: "Mental Block"

 

So instead someone would use Mind Control "Tell me who you really are".

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to build: "Mental Block"

 

So instead someone would use Mind Control "Tell me who you really are".

 

Back to kickin' 'em ina fork, albeit somewhat more subtly...Mind Control has always made an excellent alternative to Telepathy!