An effect that overwrites a focus as a different version of the item

[rentauri]

Sorry if the title is weird or doesn't make sense I think that was the best way I could paraphrase what I am after.

 

Basically I am trying to create some effects that would allow a person to pick up a sword, bow, random object, use the power to change the item into a better (more powerful and/or different) version of said item. Now I want each effect to be a separate power so if the user picks up any bow he could create the Hawkeye Bow but if he wanted to effect swords he would need to pick up another power to make the Holy Sword. Also the power is predefined, he takes the Hawkeye Bow affect all bows become that unless he takes another power that that creates another bow, say the Summer's Fury Bow.

 

The effect isn't an Aid, it is a complete overwrite of the item picked up simply needs to be 'type' affect (so the user can't pick up a stick and call it a bow) so he needs to have the power to build the focus again from scratch. Also the effect only lasts as long as the character maintains it with END it stops immediately if fails to pay or it is stopped (Dispel, Drain, etc..)

 

I was thinking originally just buy the weapon as a Killing Attack (for Bows and Swords) and slap the Constant Advantage on the power however from what I understand about constant is that after the first Attack is successful the user doesn't have to make another attack roll again, against that target, as long as the power remains on. That is most definitely not what I am after, I what the power to remain in effect (doesn't need to be re-activated each time) but the character still needs to swing or shoot and hit the target.

 

My original goal was to make it constant and uncontrolled so that the 'item' stays in existence for a predetermined time (based on the END investment) and while in effect the character simply has a weapon that he can use.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: An effect that overwrites a focus as a different version of the item

 

Sounds like a VPP which requires an OIF - appropriate object of opportunity. Further restrictions on the kind of item which could be augmented in this manner would further limit the control cost of the VPP.

[rentauri]

Re: An effect that overwrites a focus as a different version of the item

 

Maybe I'm not getting what the VPP can do and that could be it. Also Im not sure VPP will work because I may be slotting these powers into a Multipower and I was under the impression that VPP cannot be added to that. What I want is an power that could create the Longbow of Farshooting (see below for the example) and then a second power that can create the Irresistible Blade (see below for example) but they would be two separate powers and effects and I was under the impression the VPP would allow them to both exist under one power. What I am trying to do is instead of creating them as items themselves create the as powers that if the character picks up a Longbow can activate the Power of Far Shooting and turn the normal bow into the one seen below. The character would only be able to affect blades if he bought an entirely separate power call the Irresistible Powerblade.

 

Longbow of Far Shooting: RKA 1 1/2d6, Increased Maximum Range (x4 Bow's listed range; +1/2), No Range Modifier (+1/2) (50 Active Points), OAF (-1), STR Minimum (12, -1/2), Two Handed (-1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV throughout loading process; -1/4), Beam (-1/4), Cannot be fired from Horseback (-1/4). Total Cost 13 points.

 

Irresistible Blade: HKA 1 1/2d6, Armor Piercing (x2, +1/2), Penetrating (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (62 Active Points); OAF (-1), STR Minimum (13; -1/2). Total Cost 25 points.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: An effect that overwrites a focus as a different version of the item

 

Maybe I'm not getting what the VPP can do and that could be it. Also Im not sure VPP will work because I may be slotting these powers into a Multipower and I was under the impression that VPP cannot be added to that.

 

A VPP cannot be in a Multipower. A VPP van, however, be designed as a Multipower that has infinite slots.

 

What I want is an power that could create the Longbow of Farshooting (see below for the example) and then a second power that can create the Irresistible Blade (see below for example) but they would be two separate powers and effects and I was under the impression the VPP would allow them to both exist under one power.

 

Limitation: Only one power at a time (or only one object at a time). The point numbers can make that happen as well.

 

What I am trying to do is instead of creating them as items themselves create the as powers that if the character picks up a Longbow can activate the Power of Far Shooting and turn the normal bow into the one seen below. The character would only be able to affect blades if he bought an entirely separate power call the Irresistible Powerblade.

 

Longbow of Far Shooting: RKA 1 1/2d6, Increased Maximum Range (x4 Bow's listed range; +1/2), No Range Modifier (+1/2) (50 Active Points), OAF (-1), STR Minimum (12, -1/2), Two Handed (-1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV throughout loading process; -1/4), Beam (-1/4), Cannot be fired from Horseback (-1/4). Total Cost 13 points.

 

Irresistible Blade: HKA 1 1/2d6, Armor Piercing (x2, +1/2), Penetrating (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (62 Active Points); OAF (-1), STR Minimum (13; -1/2). Total Cost 25 points.

 

First off, if you can re-create the power with any bow/blade of opportunity, I wouldn't call that an OAF, but that's minor. Let's take a look at two builds for the above two powers only:

 

31 Multipower: 62 point pool (can't be less than the highest AP slot), OIF: Weapon of Opportunity (-1/2), STR Min (12 - 13; -1/2)

 

1 Slot 1: Longbow of Far Shooting: RKA 1 1/2d6, Increased Maximum Range (x4 Bow's listed range; +1/2), No Range Modifier (+1/2) (50 Active Points), OIF Sword of Opportunity (-1/2), STR Minimum (12, -1/2), Two Handed (-1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV throughout loading process; -1/4), Beam (-1/4), Cannot be fired from Horseback (-1/4). Total Cost 15 points.

 

3 Slot 2 Irresistible Blade: HKA 1 1/2d6, Armor Piercing (x2, +1/2), Penetrating (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (62 Active Points); OIF Blade of Opportunity (-1/2), STR Minimum (13; -1/2). Total Cost 31 points.

 

Total cost 35. Each added slot will bump the cost a bit.

 

25 31 point Variable Power Pool (can't be less than the highest real point cost)

37 Control Cost based on 62 AP (highest AP is needed here), Cosmic (+2 - changes with no roll and no time, just like a Multipower), OIF appropriate Object of Opportunity (-1/2), Limited to pre-approved magic items (-1/2), can only have one power (or one object) at a time -1/2

 

NOTE: the limitations could stand some fine tuning...if every item has a -1/2 STR limitation, that would apply to the control cost, and a restriction to weapons only or attack powers only would provide a further limitation. If it takes a full phase to change items, or requires some form of skill roll, those are also limitations (or reductions to the Cosmic advantages).

 

Total cost 62, so considerably more expensive. Assuming average slot costs of 2 points, and no change to the control cost limitations, the VPP is cheaper once we hit 16 slots. How many magic objects were you planning on being able to choose from? Top end versatility cries out for a VPP.

[rentauri]

Re: An effect that overwrites a focus as a different version of the item

 

Total cost 62' date=' so considerably more expensive. Assuming average slot costs of 2 points, and no change to the control cost limitations, the VPP is cheaper once we hit 16 slots. How many magic objects were you planning on being able to choose from? Top end versatility cries out for a VPP.[/quote']

 

Not sure. I was attempting to figure out the how's of its creation. I'm thinking of starting with 2 to 4 different spells and building it from that point out.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: An effect that overwrites a focus as a different version of the item

 

Maybe I'm missing something here, but is there any reason a Transformation attack wouldn't work for this?

[rentauri]

Re: An effect that overwrites a focus as a different version of the item

 

Maybe I'm missing something here' date=' but is there any reason a Transformation attack wouldn't work for this?[/quote']

 

Mainly because I am uncertain how to handle transform and the idea was to re-create the object were Transform seems to use the target as the base and edit them to suit the needs to the user (my limited understanding). That said from what I have re-read I believe this will work as a Major Transformation and I would need to keep a list of items BODY around as a quick reference.

[Tom Carman]

Re: An effect that overwrites a focus as a different version of the item

 

How about using Summon (pre-defined weapon), requires Focus of Opportunity (existing weapon of same type)?

[Captain Obvious]

Re: An effect that overwrites a focus as a different version of the item

 

Buy the power you want the bow to have, then apply OIF (weapon of same type).

 

For example: Hawkeye Bow might be 2d6 RKA, Area Effect: 1 Hex Accurate. Throw on OIF (Bow of opportunity) and you're good.

 

Summer's Fury Bow would be another power.

 

 

 

Going back and looking at the thread again, the only thing you need to do with your Farshooting Bow or Irresistable Blade to make them fit is change the OAF to OIF. With OAF, it's obvious you're firing the arrows with the bow, and it's relatively simple to take it away. With OIF, it's obvious you're firing the arrows with the bow, but it's not as easy to take away, because you can do the same thing with any bow you happen to pick up.

[rentauri]

Re: An effect that overwrites a focus as a different version of the item

 

Buy the power you want the bow to have' date=' then apply OIF (weapon of same type).[/quote']

 

But then the points of the Multipower/VPP are now devoted this power as it would need to be used every time correct? What I was trying to do was create the effect that the weapon would continue to stay in existence, the duration limited to a pre-defined time, the amount of END invested or until the power is disrupted in some way without taking up the Multipower/VPP (which campaign wise must be fixed slot). This was why I was looking to the Uncontrolled power.

 

Simple solution seems to be either Summon or Transform and I think I am leaning more to Transform.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: An effect that overwrites a focus as a different version of the item

 

Using Multipowers, VPPs, etc seems needlessly complex. I didn't take into account the END aspect you wanted, but I think it would be easy to build.

 

Just so I'm straight as to what you want:

A character with this power has to buy it separately for each individual power of that type, right? So Andrew the Archer can buy the secret of the Hawkeye Bow, and Bessemer the Bowman can buy the secret of the Far-shooting Bow without stepping on each others toes...it's not a single power. Am I right on that? If so, Multipower and VPP are just making things more expensive overall.

 

Also, do you want the power to remain in the weapon even after it's taken from the character? So that if Serric the Swordsman charges up his Sundering Blade and is immediately skewered himself, his buddy Sweet Taffy can pick it up and sunder the guy that did the skewering?

 

I'm thinking if I've got the full concept here, that these powers would be built with appropriate Killing Attacks plus whatever modifiers you need to get that specific effect, then adding OIF (weapon of opportunity), Charges (for arrows etc, if appropriate), Costs END (if Charges are used, to counteract the free END aspect of Charges), Constant, Uncontrolled (these two require the character to feed END to the weapon to power it, and then the power runs regardless of whether the character stays conscious/alive to use it), Usable by Others (so Taffy can steal it), and a limitation of Requires an Attack Roll Every Phase (so that the character's not attacking with the sword once and then hitting the guy continuously afterwards...this counteracts the standard effect of Uncontrolled). This may not be the absolute best way to build it, but it seems easier to me than Transform or Summon...they always get a little weird.

 

EDIT: and if you want to slot multiple instances of this sort of power into a Multipower, it's not hard. But it's not necessary to build a character with one set effect either.

[rentauri]

Re: An effect that overwrites a focus as a different version of the item

 

Just so I'm straight as to what you want:

A character with this power has to buy it separately for each individual power of that type, right? So Andrew the Archer can buy the secret of the Hawkeye Bow, and Bessemer the Bowman can buy the secret of the Far-shooting Bow without stepping on each others toes...it's not a single power. Am I right on that? If so, Multipower and VPP are just making things more expensive overall.

 

Yes. The Multipower aspect is because that is the power frame everything fits into for the campaign. So if Andrew wants the Hawkeye Bow and a power that grants Super Leaping a Healing Power and a fourth power (or whatever powers Andrew's player feels are better) then to exist they need to be all rolled into one Multipower and the framework is bought at a Fixed Cost.

 

Also' date=' do you want the power to remain in the weapon even after it's taken from the character? So that if Serric the Swordsman charges up his Sundering Blade and is immediately skewered himself, his buddy Sweet Taffy can pick it up and sunder the guy that did the skewering?[/quote']

 

No. The power is personal, it always costs END to create and I liked the resource management of Uncontrolled but it is never suppose to be used for another character. Two people may have the Hawkeye Bow but they will be slightly different, each unique to the character.

 

I'm thinking if I've got the full concept here' date=' that these powers would be built with appropriate Killing Attacks plus whatever modifiers you need to get that specific effect, then adding OIF (weapon of opportunity), Charges (for arrows etc, if appropriate), Costs END (if Charges are used, to counteract the free END aspect of Charges), Constant, Uncontrolled (these two require the character to feed END to the weapon to power it, and then the power runs regardless of whether the character stays conscious/alive to use it), Usable by Others (so Taffy can steal it), and a limitation of Requires an Attack Roll Every Phase (so that the character's not attacking with the sword once and then hitting the guy continuously afterwards...this counteracts the standard effect of Uncontrolled). [/quote']

 

Now this was what I had intended when I started except I read what a Constant Attack Power does and, my understanding, is that after the first attack roll is made successfully while the power remains in effect that the user does not need to roll and attack against that target anymore. This it not what I want, I want to weapon to be available after the first casting for a preset time and the disappear to be activated again if needed.

 

This may not be the absolute best way to build it' date=' but it seems easier to me than Transform or Summon...they always get a little weird.[/quote']

 

Summon is to cheap, I understand this should be expensive to make and for a Base Cost of 12 points I can create a 60 Active Point weapon... way to little. The Major Transform seems to have the option I'm looking for, adding DC's and Advantages but the power seems to be built more to edit the weapon instead of flatly replacing the any weapon type with this new weapon.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: An effect that overwrites a focus as a different version of the item

 

If you're using Summon to create usable objects rather than independent living creatures (or dead creatures, or whatever), you probably need to use the Slavishly Loyal (+1) Advantage.

 

On the plus side, the Expanded Class Advantage might let you use one power to call up a variety of pregenerated weapons depending on what exactly was available to use as a Focus.

[JmOz]

Re: An effect that overwrites a focus as a different version of the item

 

I would say transform, there are rules under it for adding powers to people, can't see why they could not be used to add abilities to an item...

[Captain Obvious]

Re: An effect that overwrites a focus as a different version of the item

 

No. The power is personal' date=' it always costs END to create and I liked the resource management of Uncontrolled but it is never suppose to be used for another character. Two people may have the Hawkeye Bow but they will be slightly different, each unique to the character.[/quote']

 

Okay, that's easy enough then. We'll pull out Usable by Others.

 

 

 

Now this was what I had intended when I started except I read what a Constant Attack Power does and, my understanding, is that after the first attack roll is made successfully while the power remains in effect that the user does not need to roll and attack against that target anymore. This it not what I want, I want to weapon to be available after the first casting for a preset time and the disappear to be activated again if needed.

 

That's why I put that Limitation on about Requiring an Attack Roll Every Phase to Use...it requires the character to actually attack each time he wants to apply damage rather than attack once and hit again and again. I didn't specify a particular level of Limitation, I realized. I would suggest -3/4, as a huge part of the benefits of Constant and Uncontrolled lie in hitting over and over with one attack roll.

 

So my current suggested build is as follows:

 

 

I'm thinking if I've got the full concept here' date=' that these powers would be built with appropriate Killing Attacks plus whatever modifiers you need to get that specific effect, then adding OIF (weapon of opportunity), Charges (for arrows etc, if appropriate), Costs END (if Charges are used, to counteract the free END aspect of Charges), Constant, Uncontrolled (these two require the character to feed END to the weapon to power it, and then the power runs regardless of whether the character stays conscious/alive to use it), and a limitation of Requires an Attack Roll Every Phase (so that the character's not attacking with the sword once and then hitting the guy continuously afterwards...this counteracts the standard effect of Uncontrolled). [/quote']

 

In common English, this allows you to build a power to "supercharge" basically any weapon (type chosen by player) at an END cost, allows the use of projectile for supercharged bows etc, and the weapon will remain supercharged for as long as the character expended END for (END expenditure occurs all at once when the weapon is powered up, if it runs out, the weapon will need to be charged again). If that particular weapon is smashed or otherwise lost, the character can do the same with another similar weapon at any time. If the character is stunned or knocked loopy, the weapon will not lose power and will remain charged if the character recovers soon enough. If someone else takes the weapon away, it will function as a normal weapon of its type for them...the power is as much a function of the character as of the weapon. Is that about right?

 

This is a pretty interesting concept, I think. It's got a sort of anime feel to it.

[rentauri]

Re: An effect that overwrites a focus as a different version of the item

 

Ah, I missed that whole "Attack Roll Every Phase to Use" the first time. Yes I believe that works, thank you. I do like the transform ability and it does work however I do like this as I don't need to use a Stop power which I am leery of using.