Limitation Value on Weaponmaster

[Armitage]

I was tinkering with a version of the Maximize Spell feat from D&D, which gives a wizard a limited ability to have his spells cause maximum damage.

I suddenly thought that Weaponmaster might be the way to go with this.

 

e.g.

Maximize Spell: Weapon Master: +3d6 (all Ranged Spells); 3 Charges (-1 1/4), Costs Endurance (-1/2), Cannot Increase Damage Above Original Attack's Maximum Damage (-?)

 

If a character has a Flame Bolt spell defined as a 3d6 RKA, this ability would allow him to roll 6d6 for the damage, but he couldn't cause more than 18 BODY - the maximum damage for the original spell.

 

The issue becomes the Limitation bolded in the above example. What would be an appropriate value?

My first thought is -1/2 since, if parity is maintained with the power level of the base attack, the resulting damage will be below average for the dice rolled (-3 BODY in the above example). The damage would be equivalent to a 5d6 or 5d6+1 attack, roughly a 20 Active Point reduction in the Weaponmaster.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Limitation Value on Weaponmaster

 

Hmm. The catch is, that might not always result in an 18 Body attack. What you might need to do is make it +5d6 KA, with Standard Effect, which will always add 15; if the base damage dice come up 3, then he still gets his 18. It would probably warrant a much bigger limitation in that case, however.

[Armitage]

Re: Limitation Value on Weaponmaster

 

Hmm. The catch is' date=' that might not always result in an 18 Body attack. [/quote']

 

I had accepted that as a "cost of doing business", since there are no absolutes in Hero System. The average damage would be approximately the maximum, so that was close enough for me.

 

What you might need to do is make it +5d6 KA, with Standard Effect, which will always add 15; if the base damage dice come up 3, then he still gets his 18. It would probably warrant a much bigger limitation in that case, however.

 

I was using Weaponmaster because it's built using Combat Skill Levels, so it can add Damage Classes to any ranged attack, not just RKA.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: Limitation Value on Weaponmaster

 

Another option is buying extra dice equal to the original attack and using standard effect for the whole thing. A 4d6 RKA with 4 extra dice will do 24 Body using standard effect, which is equivalent to 'maximizing' the original 4d6.

 

Or you could use a custom (+1) advantage based on the above: maximizing the attack by that method is equivalent to doubling the cost anyway.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Limitation Value on Weaponmaster

 

I like Xavier's solution actually, it's clean and clear. Unless you're into rolling dice, then the CSLs is the way to go.

[Armitage]

Re: Limitation Value on Weaponmaster

 

Another option is buying extra dice equal to the original attack and using standard effect for the whole thing. A 4d6 RKA with 4 extra dice will do 24 Body using standard effect' date=' which is equivalent to 'maximizing' the original 4d6. [/quote']

 

This would only work if you added Variable Special Effect and Variable Advantage, so it could add to any spell built with an RKA. You would then have to buy similar abilities for Blast, Flash, and any other Power you have.

 

Or you could use a custom (+1) advantage based on the above: maximizing the attack by that method is equivalent to doubling the cost anyway.

 

Now that you mention it, I recall that there was a villain somewhere in one of the 4e books who had that Advantage on one of his powers. I remember my GM at the time saying that none of his players could use it with their characters. That would be more efficient than Weaponmaster, and the higher point cost would ensure that it was only applied to lower power spells or that it would mainly be used by more powerful spell casters, like the D&D feat it's based on.

 

The only problem now is that it's going to bother me until I go through my books and find which villain it was who had the Advantage...

 

EDIT: Found it. It was MAVRIC's robot minions in Champions Presents #2. In that book Automatic Full Damage was +2, which is excessive for what it does. Especially since it was on an HKA that also had 1 Charge and Only On Self (a self-destruct system).

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Limitation Value on Weaponmaster

 

I was tinkering with a version of the Maximize Spell feat from D&D, which gives a wizard a limited ability to have his spells cause maximum damage.

I suddenly thought that Weaponmaster might be the way to go with this.

 

e.g.

Maximize Spell: Weapon Master: +3d6 (all Ranged Spells); 3 Charges (-1 1/4), Costs Endurance (-1/2), Cannot Increase Damage Above Original Attack's Maximum Damage (-?)

 

If a character has a Flame Bolt spell defined as a 3d6 RKA, this ability would allow him to roll 6d6 for the damage, but he couldn't cause more than 18 BODY - the maximum damage for the original spell.

 

The issue becomes the Limitation bolded in the above example. What would be an appropriate value?

My first thought is -1/2 since, if parity is maintained with the power level of the base attack, the resulting damage will be below average for the dice rolled (-3 BODY in the above example). The damage would be equivalent to a 5d6 or 5d6+1 attack, roughly a 20 Active Point reduction in the Weaponmaster.

 

The limitation depends a lot on the comparison of the added dice to the original dice. If the typical spell does 4d6, and you add 1d6, exceeding the maximum will be a lot rarer than if you add dice equal to the value of the typical spell.

 

As an alternative, what about a naked +1 advantage "Attack always does maximum damage"? This is based on the fact that buying twice as many DC's and making them Standard Effect would result in consistent damage equal to the maximum roll on half as many dice, and would carry double the cost. This also avoids the issue of base spells with advantages - they will also max out.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: Limitation Value on Weaponmaster

 

As an alternative' date=' what about a naked +1 advantage "Attack always does maximum damage"? This is based on the fact that buying twice as many DC's and making them Standard Effect would result in consistent damage equal to the maximum roll on half as many dice, and would carry double the cost. This also avoids the issue of base spells with advantages - they will also max out.[/quote']

 

What he said!

[Norm]

Re: Limitation Value on Weaponmaster

 

Love your idea Hugh. I will have to remember that one.

 

This depends on how your magic system works... and this the rules lawyer in me.... I would also add penalty skill levels to offset the increased minus to the magic skill roll due to the increase in active points. We currently use -1 to magic roll per 10 active points in our game.