Adding HKA...

[davypi]

This is probably a general rules question, but since the examples come from a fantasy setting, I thought I would put it here. We are all new to using HERO, so providing specifics is encouraged.

 

A PC in our campaign wants a spell that add 1d6 killing damage to his sword. In the Grimoire (page 331) there is a spell called Blade Enhancement which uses an Aid HKA 5d6 (standard effect 1d6) which has an active cost of 54 points. Conversely, 6E1, 242 shows a Swordmaster skill which is a direct HKA +1d6 without using the aid ability for an active cost of 15 points. Why would you choose an Aid HKA effect that costs four times as much as simply buying the standard effect? Exact text is below...

 

Blade Enhancement: Aid HKA 5d6 (standard effect: +1d6), Delayed Return Rate (points fade at the rate of 5 per 5 Minutes; +1¼) (67 Active Points); OAF Expendable (steel dust ground from swordblades used in battle, Difficult to obtain; -1¼), Extra Time (Full Phase to activate; -¼), Gestures (-¼), Incantations (-¼), Only Aid Self (-1), Only Adds To Bladed Weapon Damage (-¼), Requires A Magic Roll (-½). Total cost: 14 points.

 

Swordmaster’s Skill: HKA +1d6 (adds to any sword-based HKA), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (22 Active Points); Only With Swords (-½), Requires A DEX Roll (-½). Total cost: 11 points.

 

Thanks to all

Davy

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Adding HKA...

 

First off, you could remove the "Only Aid Self" limit on the spell. This way a wizard could sharpen other people's blades. The skill on the other hand only applies to the wielder himself, plus it requires that dreaded dex roll which he could fail about half the time mid combat.

 

Also, in some settings, spell costs are divided to make them more balanced and affordable for that setting. Turakian Age for example divides real cost by 3. So the spell above would cost a mere 5 points.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Adding HKA...

 

A GM might house rule that since the latter has a skill based special effect it doesn't increase the base damage of the weapon. They also might house rule that weapons can't do more than x2 base damage. If the character already has a combination of STR, CSL's and Martial Arts that puts the damage near this limit the Swordmaster Skill build might lose effectiveness that the Blade Enhancement would not ( since the Aid would be increasing the base damage).

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Adding HKA...

 

Also, more weapons than just swords have blades.

[Christopher]

Re: Adding HKA...

 

Aid:

The option of Sharpening other peoples swords has already been noted.

There is also the thing with the "DC Doubling Rule", that many heroic campaigns use. Afaik the Aid spell does increase the Base Attack and thus how far you can ramp up damage with CSL, Talents and Maneuvers without damaging the weapon.

On the ohter hand, you have to keep stuff like the "0 END (+1/2)" Advantage on the Sword in mind (the writeup you gave seems to forget that; 15 Standart Effect is too little for +1d6, 0 END).

 

The Talent is (by raw) limited to the "DC Doubling Rule".

 

Examples:

Short Sword (1d6 KA = 3 DC; 22 AP*).

When the aid Spell adds 22 AP, the weapon deals 2d6 KA and the DC-Doubling Maximum jumps up too 4d6/12 DC.

When the Talent adds 3 DC, the weapon does 2d6 KA but is "maxed out". You cannot add any more damage from STR, Maneuvers or CSL (unless you risk the weapon taking the same damage).

 

Great Sword (2d6 KA, Increased STUN = 8 DC; 52 AP*).

To add 1d6, you have to add 4 DC or 27 AP (to compenstate for teh increased STUn Multiplier).

If you only add 22 AP or 3 DC as with the Short Sword, you only get 3d6-1.

 

 

*the total AP's given in the lists also include 2 AP/2 Real cost for the 2m Reach swords provide.

[davypi]

Re: Adding HKA...

 

I have to admit that I'm not entirely sure I understand everything that has been said, so lets pare out all the extraneous stuff and make two "simple" but (possibly) identical spells. This removes all the arguments about skills, blades, etc.

 

Aid Killing:

Aid HKA 5d6 (standard effect: 15 points, i.e. 1d6 HKA). Gestures (-¼), Incantations (-¼), Only Melee (-¼), OAF(-¼)

Base Cost: 60. Disadvantages (-1). Final Cost: 30

 

Direct Killing:

Killing Attack +1d6 (15 points). Gestures (-¼), Incantations (-¼), Only Melee (-¼), OAF(-¼)

Base Cost: 15. Disadvantages (-1). Final Cost: 7

 

 

Question 1: What, EXACTLY, is the difference between these two spells? Why would I choose Aid over Direct?

 

Question 2: With these spells, I assume I am casting them on the weapon, not on the user. What, if anything, would change if I cast

this on a person instead of a weapon?

[Beast]

Re: Adding HKA...

 

the x2 doubling rule is now and option in 6th ed not the norm

Yes a 1 pip pen knife backed by a 55 str is a 4d6 hka

you could just aid strength

 

 

Aid:

The option of Sharpening other peoples swords has already been noted.

There is also the thing with the "DC Doubling Rule", that many heroic campaigns use. Afaik the Aid spell does increase the Base Attack and thus how far you can ramp up damage with CSL, Talents and Maneuvers without damaging the weapon.

On the ohter hand, you have to keep stuff like the "0 END (+1/2)" Advantage on the Sword in mind (the writeup you gave seems to forget that; 15 Standart Effect is too little for +1d6, 0 END).

 

The Talent is (by raw) limited to the "DC Doubling Rule".

 

Examples:

Short Sword (1d6 KA = 3 DC; 22 AP*).

When the aid Spell adds 22 AP, the weapon deals 2d6 KA and the DC-Doubling Maximum jumps up too 4d6/12 DC.

When the Talent adds 3 DC, the weapon does 2d6 KA but is "maxed out". You cannot add any more damage from STR, Maneuvers or CSL (unless you risk the weapon taking the same damage).

 

Great Sword (2d6 KA, Increased STUN = 8 DC; 52 AP*).

To add 1d6, you have to add 4 DC or 27 AP (to compenstate for teh increased STUn Multiplier).

If you only add 22 AP or 3 DC as with the Short Sword, you only get 3d6-1.

 

 

*the total AP's given in the lists also include 2 AP/2 Real cost for the 2m Reach swords provide.

[Christopher]

Re: Adding HKA...

 

Aid Killing:

Aid HKA 5d6 (standard effect: 15 points, i.e. 1d6 HKA). Gestures (-¼), Incantations (-¼), Only Melee (-¼), OAF(-¼)

Base Cost: 60. Disadvantages (-1). Final Cost: 30

 

Direct Killing:

Killing Attack +1d6 (15 points). Gestures (-¼), Incantations (-¼), Only Melee (-¼), OAF(-¼)

Base Cost: 15. Disadvantages (-1). Final Cost: 7

Aid killing:

Can be cast on a blade, as an attack action. It "sticks" to the blade.

You need to ramp up the Effect (and standart effect) too 7-8d6/21-24 Standart Effect or you won't get 1d6. You only get two DC with that writeup (+.5d6). Because of the +1/2 0 END advantage on the weapon.

You have to pay END to cast the Spell, but nobody has to pay end to use the extra Damage.

The effect fades at tthe usual 5/Post Segment 12.

Questions:

What does "Only Melee" mean? What is the OAF for the spell and why is it only worth -1/4?

 

Direct Killing:

This is an ability you write down on your sheet. You can only use it on weapons you use. You cannot enchant others weapons (that would require some form of "Usable on Others").

You have to define a single attack/weapon to wich that damage adds. It does not works with any other weapon.

When you use this extra damage, you have to pay Endurance for it (1 END, or the rate for STR - depending on GM).

You propably need to make gestures and take a 0-phase action to "activate" but afterwards can use it at leisure, so this might not be worth a Incantation Limitation.

Questions:

Again, "Only Melee" and "OAF" at -1/4?

 

 

the x2 doubling rule is now and option in 6th ed not the norm

Yes a 1 pip pen knife backed by a 55 str is a 4d6 hka

you could just aid strength

It is used in many heroic games. This is the fantasy hero Forum and the question is for a fantasy game.

And it is still the rule whenever STR-Minimum or Real Weapon Limitations are used (see 6E2 on these Limitations).

Wich quite often comes out to the same thing.