House rules: speed, height advantage, gang up bonus, facing, dodging?

[runescience]

Feed back appreciated:

 

I am breaking my group into Fantasy hero from TFT/Fantasy Trip/Wiz/Melee.

 

There are certain things I like about TFT that makes it a lovely unit based tactical game.

 

There is a gang up rule that says a attacker gets +1 for each of his friends adjacent a defender

 

Height advantage: if Attacker is 3ft or above enemy, he gets +1.

 

Facing Front facing evenup. Attacking flank +2, attacking a back +4. This only works in TFT since all sides move, before all attacks and all attacks happen in Adjust dex order.

 

Speed.... TFT has nothing like this other than some critters have a second attack.

I think this would work well. Speed might give another attack against a foe without moving or upto an additional full move

 

Dodging an attack in tft forces attacker to roll 4 dice to hit instead of 3. I realize we have dodges and martial dodges in Hero games.

 

What do you do in these situations?

 

any other interesting maneuvers to add aside from the martial maneuvers?

[Christopher]

Re: House rules: speed, height advantage, gang up bonus, facing, dodging?

 

I am breaking my group into Fantasy hero from TFT/Fantasy Trip/Wiz/Melee.

 

There are certain things I like about TFT that makes it a lovely unit based tactical game.

 

There is a gang up rule that says a attacker gets +1 for each of his friends adjacent a defender

There is coordianted attack. It requires all parties to make a Teamwork Roll.

There is also the "attack from behind" Modifier.

 

Height advantage: if Attacker is 3ft or above enemy' date=' he gets +1.[/quote']

Not certain something like this exists in hero.

 

Facing Front facing evenup. Attacking flank +2' date=' attacking a back +4. This only works in TFT since all sides move, before all attacks and all attacks happen in Adjust dex order.[/quote']

Propably falls under Cooperative Attack/Attack form behind modifiers.

 

Speed.... TFT has nothing like this other than some critters have a second attack.

I think this would work well. Speed might give another attack against a foe without moving or upto an additional full move

There are other way to get second attacks: Multiple Attack and Autofire are the most common ways.

 

 

One real important question for conversions is "what is the average impact on success chances"?

In a d% game, +1 means 1% more chance.

In a D20 game it means +5%

In HERO on average it means +10%.

 

And I don't know what TFT (what does thsi even mean?) uses for attack resolution, so I can't properly translate it.

[runescience]

Re: House rules: speed, height advantage, gang up bonus, facing, dodging?

 

let me reword that for you...

 

In hero games we have SPEED, which translates to multiple attacks in 12 segments.

 

In TFT there were only 1 attack per turn except for the fellow with high dex and a bow. He got a second bow shot.

 

We are not playing TFT any more but I would like to trim down the speed difference between characters.

 

If players are speed 2, 3 and 4, which i hope they are not, i could reduce all attacks by one so that:

2 of the players gets 1 attack per turn, another gets 2 attacks per turn and the last gets 3 attacks per turn...

 

now if i could further change that to something like... each subsequent attack would be a half action or a static action must attack where you were standing from, or do up to a full move.

 

How does that sound?

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: House rules: speed, height advantage, gang up bonus, facing, dodging?

 

the original incarnation of HERO, Champions, was first conceived during the same "wargames style tactical rules for combat systems" era that spawned TFT, and has functionally evolved since. I'm a pretty hard core old school tactical wargamer, and HERO is darn near the only RPG system I'll play or run anymore. That might hint at the system's actual flexibility. Seriously, this system has the capability to support incredible tactical depth, flexibility and realism, once you learn it's tricks. Trying to alter the system to adapt comfortable rules from other systems is the #1 way newcomers to HERO end up breaking the system and leaving players with a poor initial experience.

[Christopher]

Re: House rules: speed, height advantage, gang up bonus, facing, dodging?

 

Trying to alter the system to adapt comfortable rules from other systems is the #1 way newcomers to HERO end up breaking the system and leaving players with a poor initial experience.

Amen.

[Gary Miles]

Re: House rules: speed, height advantage, gang up bonus, facing, dodging?

 

let me reword that for you...

 

In hero games we have SPEED, which translates to multiple attacks in 12 segments.

 

In TFT there were only 1 attack per turn except for the fellow with high dex and a bow. He got a second bow shot.

 

We are not playing TFT any more but I would like to trim down the speed difference between characters.

 

If players are speed 2, 3 and 4, which i hope they are not, i could reduce all attacks by one so that:

2 of the players gets 1 attack per turn, another gets 2 attacks per turn and the last gets 3 attacks per turn...

 

now if i could further change that to something like... each subsequent attack would be a half action or a static action must attack where you were standing from, or do up to a full move.

 

How does that sound?

Not good.

 

Too much changing from base HERO rules.

 

There's nothing wrong with characters that vary in SPD. It's part of what differentiates characters from each other. If they paid 10 points per point of that SPD, they NEED to "get their money's worth".

 

Otherwise, you (as GM) can just flat-out say, "Guys, I only want you to make SPD 3 and 4 characters". Or, "Guys, I only want you to make SPD 2 characters".

[Lucius]

Re: House rules: speed, height advantage, gang up bonus, facing, dodging?

 

Feed back appreciated:

 

I am breaking my group into Fantasy hero from TFT/Fantasy Trip/Wiz/Melee.

 

There are certain things I like about TFT that makes it a lovely unit based tactical game.

 

I too love The Fantasy Trip, aka Melee/Wizard. But I haven't played in many years. Decades even.

 

Height advantage: if Attacker is 3ft or above enemy, he gets +1.

 

So, a Hobbit with a dagger standing on a treelimb two meters over the ground has an advantage over a Human with a long spear standing on the ground?

 

Feel free to give situational bonuses, as long as they're reasonable. One advantage you have is that both games use a similar mechanic of rolling 3d6.

 

Facing Front facing evenup. Attacking flank +2' date=' attacking a back +4. This only works in TFT since all sides move, before all attacks and all attacks happen in Adjust dex order.[/quote']

 

Yeah, I think in Hero I'd make that +1 and +2 at most, rather than +2 and +4. As you notice, the turn sequence is different.

 

Speed.... TFT has nothing like this other than some critters have a second attack.

I think this would work well. Speed might give another attack against a foe without moving or upto an additional full move

 

First of all, a "turn" is not the same thing in Hero as In The Labyrinth. Notice that everyone gets a SPD of 2 for free, which gives them 2 phases, and in each phase, they can move and attack. You could simplify the game by leaving everyone at SPD 2 and not letting anyone buy it up, if you prefer. Myself, I tend to restrict characters in heroic games to SPD 3. This gives them an edge on "normal" people but keeps things simple enough. Effectively, a "phase" is what you're used to thinking of as a "turn" and people with higher SPD basically get extra turns.

 

Restricting people to one attack per 12 second turn makes as much sense as running TFT and saying you only get an attack every other turn. But restricting everyone to SPD 2, at least at first, may not be so bad.

 

Remember, everyone gets to RECover at "post segment 12" at the end of every full Turn. That means they get some STUN back. If you only allow one attack per turn, you would make it harder to knock off STUN faster than they can get it back, and combat would drag on forever!

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The Palindromedary Trip

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: House rules: speed, height advantage, gang up bonus, facing, dodging?

 

Thanks Lucius. Been too long since I delved into TFT, couldn't remember any specific system details. About what I was thinking tho. Think Speed 2 = normal 1 attack/TFT turn character, Speed 4= 2 attacks per TFT turn

[Barwickian]

Re: House rules: speed, height advantage, gang up bonus, facing, dodging?

 

TFT and Hero System both use 3d6 task resolution, so it's possible, if you want to simply port TFT situation bonuses over.

 

However, Hero tends to apply situational bonuses to the defender's DCV, rather than the attacker's OCV. TFT doesn't have a DCV equivalent that I remember (it's been a long time since I've played it). You should do one or the other - apply TFT modifiers to OCV and ignore Hero DCV modifiers, or use Hero DCV penalties and ignore TFT offensive modifiers. If you use both, you'll basically double the bonus in situations where both apply.

 

I'd be inclined to stick with the Hero modifiers, as they work well with Hero's extremely flexible tactical combat. And it is flexible: I've brought players across from D&D3.5 (itself quite a tactical game), and they've been overjoyed by the options they have in Hero.

 

From the sound of it, you're playing a Heroic level game. SPD is designed to handle anything from ordinary mortals to superheroic speedsters.

 

The easiest rule you could apply is to limit the SPD players can buy. At its harshest, you may simply rule that all characters have SPD 2. A little more relaxed, you may allow them to buy SPD 3. Remember, as a GM you have the right to approve or disapprove any character build for your games.

 

SPD is one of the things people coming to Hero have most difficulty with. It is very common for new players to buy SPD 4 under almost all circumstances, presumably under the rationale that more goes is better. More experienced players tend not to do this. SPD 3 is nice (and keeps you on par with most of the experienced NPC combat specialists), and you spend the extra 10 points on something that'll make sure your slower PC hits more often.

 

For example, those 10 points will buy me +5 vs the range penalty with my bow; or +3 Combat Skill Levels with Swords with a point left over; or +5 OCV-only combat skill levels with a particular type of sword (if my GM will allow +5 in OCV bonuses; it's a common house rule to cap out at +4).

 

If you use hit locations, those points could go to counteract hit location penalties, giving a much better chance of headshots.

 

Or they'll buy you 2-3 Martial Arts manouvers. Or the Sword Tricks skill and some cinematic swordsman manouver (hey, dude, you may have SPD 4, but I have a signature move: watch this!)

 

Though you haven't mentioned it, a similar issue afects Combat Skill Levels. New players like to be broadly powerful. But in place of their 10-point +1 with all combat, I can buy +3 with longswords and +2 with longbow. That gives me a significant advantage when I have my favourite weapons to hand - and they get a lesser advantage if I don't.

 

In short, what I'm suggesting is that you get more used to Hero System, and grok the way it works, rather than trying to fit TFT into it.

[Manic Typist]

Re: House rules: speed, height advantage, gang up bonus, facing, dodging?

 

Not certain something like this exists in hero.

 

There is.

[gilgamesh]

Re: House rules: speed, height advantage, gang up bonus, facing, dodging?

 

Not sure if someone posted this yet....As for the SPD issue....Look at APG Vol1. It has several rules for different uses of speed and the initiative system. One of which I used immediatly with great effect. Also, remember the game is wonderfully balanced mathmatically, I would be very hesitant to alter any rules(except for some powers and their effects maybe...depending on your needs)