Dagger, Obviously Missing something here.

[Zyvorg]

I'm trying to build the base equipment (5th revised edition) dagger in the Hero Designer, however while the book says it should cost 21 active points/8 real points I keep coming up with 17 active/6 real.

I'm currently buying it down to 0d6 and then clicking the 1d6-1 check box (10 points) and am giving it Reduced End 0 (+1/2), Real Weapon(-1/4), Range Based on Str(+1/4), Str Minimum (6-14)(-1/2), OAF(-1), Required Hands (One) (-0)

 

As far as I can tell those are the only modifiers on the dagger. If anyone could point out whatever my obvious mistake is that would be great.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Dagger, Obviously Missing something here.

 

You're not making a mistake, the book has some incorrect values in it. The Dagger/Dirk built as suggested in the book is 17 Active and 6 Real Points.

[Matt Holck]

Re: Dagger, Obviously Missing something here.

 

is the 1d6 check box for stun?

[Zyvorg]

Re: Dagger, Obviously Missing something here.

 

The 1d6-1 box is to do other values besides a full d6. Also, the Range based on Strength is and advantage, that's why I marked it as +1/4 not minus.

Unless someone knows something otherwise I guess i'll just go with what ghost-angel said. Thank you for that information ghost-angel.

[Rhino]

Re: Dagger, Obviously Missing something here.

 

Isn't there a lockout limitation when you use the ranged attack.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Dagger, Obviously Missing something here.

 

Isn't there a lockout limitation when you use the ranged attack.

I don't think so because the ranged attack isn't a seperate attack, it is just adding Range Based on STR to the HKA.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Dagger, Obviously Missing something here.

 

No lockout, that's likely just "what it is." You can always try adding +1 OCV as a Compound Power, and see if that doesn't raise the value -- a few weapons have those but they aren't super common.

[Pegasus40218]

Re: Dagger, Obviously Missing something here.

 

I don't think so because the ranged attack isn't a seperate attack' date=' it is just adding Range Based on STR to the HKA.[/quote']

 

You could also look at it as having 1 recoverable charge...

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Dagger, Obviously Missing something here.

 

From 5er page 194 sidebar:

 

POWER EXAMPLES:

HKA

These examples assume a character with STR 15.

 

Dagger:

HKA 1d6 (up to 2d6 with STR), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (22 Active Points); OAF (-1), STR Minimum (6; -½), Real Weapon (-¼) (total cost: 8 points)

plus

Ranged (+½) for HKA 1d6 (8 Active Points); OAF (-1), 1 Recoverable Charge (-1¼), Range Based On STR (-¼) (total cost: 2 points).

Total cost: 10 points.

 

Here's how it looks using Hero Designer:

 

10 Dagger: (Total: 29 Active Cost, 10 Real Cost)

Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (22 Active Points); OAF (-1), STR Minimum 6 (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4) (Real Cost: 8)

plus

Ranged (+1/2) for up to 15 Active Points of HKA (7 Active Points); 1 Recoverable Charge (-1 1/4), OAF (-1), Limited Power Ranged Based On STR (Custom Limitation; -1/4) (Real Cost: 2)

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Dagger, Obviously Missing something here.

 

You could also look at it as having 1 recoverable charge...

You could, but wouldn't that technically mean you would have to "Recover" the knife after each use, even in HKA? You can have 1 Recoverable Charge and Lockout if you build it as a multipower or seperate power, but I think that's unnecessary. I think it more an issue of the Focus Limitation. When you use the Range Based on STR Advantage you throw the knife, thus you are no longer holding the knife which is your Focus for the HKA and you can't use it. I think that's enough, especially if you're dealing with free equipment in a Heroic level game. If you think it's worth less points than it comes out to for a super who pays points for equipment to use then I would suggest actually building it differently, for example Dr. Destroyer's Agents' knives are built like this:

12 Combat Knife: HKA 1d6 (2d6 with STR)Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½); OAF (-1), Real

Weapon (-¼)

plus: Ranged (+½) for HKA 1d6

Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½); OAF (-1), Range

Based On STR (-¼), Lockout (cannot use HKA until

Charge is recovered; -½), 1 Recoverable Charge

(-1¼)

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Dagger, Obviously Missing something here.

 

When I try to build the Dagger/Dirk# from 5er page 481 I also get different values than those listed:

 

6 Dagger/Dirk#: (Total: 17 Active Cost, 6 Real Cost)

Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6-1, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (15 Active Points); OAF (-1), STR Minimum 6 (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4) (Real Cost: 5)

plus

Range Based On STR (+1/4) for up to 10 Active Points of HKA (2 Active Points); 1 Recoverable Charge (-1 1/4), OAF (-1) (Real Cost: 1)

 

and here's my 2nd try using the same weird combo of ranged advantage + ranged based on str limitation from 1st build example in my 1st post:

 

6 Dagger/Dirk#: (Total: 20 Active Cost, 6 Real Cost)

Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6-1, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (15 Active Points); OAF (-1), STR Minimum 6 (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4) (Real Cost: 5)

plus

Ranged (+1/2) for up to 10 Active Points of HKA (5 Active Points); 1 Recoverable Charge (-1 1/4), OAF (-1), Limited Power Ranged Based On STR (Custom Limitation; -1/4) (Real Cost: 1)

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Dagger, Obviously Missing something here.

 

Hyper-Man, would the Range part count as a Naked Advantage? If so, wouldn't it technically need Reduced Endurance as well? (I'm not saying that is why the cost is off, I'm just wondering. I know a lot of people seem to ignore that rule anyway.)

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Dagger, Obviously Missing something here.

 

Steve has stated that he does NOT use Hero Designer to build published abilities or characters.

I think this is just a case of the program catching mistakes (rounding up instead of down) and/or enforcing stricter rules (not allowing an advantage and limitation of the same type on same power; ranged ADV & ranged based on str LIM) than Steve used in the original build examples.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Dagger, Obviously Missing something here.

 

Hyper-Man' date=' would the Range part count as a Naked Advantage? If so, wouldn't it technically need Reduced Endurance as well? (I'm not saying that is why the cost is off, I'm just wondering. I know a lot of people seem to ignore that rule anyway.)[/quote']

 

Yes, I used the Naked Advantage option in Hero Designer.

I don't think Reduced END is necessary since Charges are also being used.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Dagger, Obviously Missing something here.

 

Yes, I used the Naked Advantage option in Hero Designer.

I don't think Reduced END is necessary since Charges are also being used.

Derp, I forgot about Charges automatically making it 0 END, my bad.