Levels in Defense

[JeffreyWKramer]

Originally posted by badger3k

Read it today - it still makes no sense - if the grond haymakers somebody, he's -5 DCV for karate boy, but not laser lad? I'm going to play the unofficial way and have them vs all, just keep skill levels different. If you do find it in the rulebook, please post or PM me the page - I still can't find anything anywhere - and it should state it somewhere, don't ya think?

 

I'm pretty sure I have seen it stated somewhere in the Big Black Book or in ULTIMATE MARTIAL ARTIST, but I'm not 100% sure. If I run across it, I'll post it.

 

In reality (for what that matters in a superhero game), using good form on a martial maneuver won't do much to keep you from getting shot, but doing something that puts you off-balance or reduces your ability to react to things (i.e., a DCV penalty, such as you gain from all-out attacks like haymakers and jump kicks) probably makes you easier to shoot.

[badger3k]

Originally posted by JeffreyWKramer

I'm pretty sure I have seen it stated somewhere in the Big Black Book or in ULTIMATE MARTIAL ARTIST, but I'm not 100% sure. If I run across it, I'll post it.

 

In reality (for what that matters in a superhero game), using good form on a martial maneuver won't do much to keep you from getting shot, but doing something that puts you off-balance or reduces your ability to react to things (i.e., a DCV penalty, such as you gain from all-out attacks like haymakers and jump kicks) probably makes you easier to shoot.

 

Thanks.

 

You could be right on that. After thinking about it, what if the DCV bonuses for a maneuver would only apply to the particular form (HTH or Ranged), but DCV penalties apply to all. After all, with two different maneuvers (say, with two-weapon combat), you keep the worse of the DCV bonuses, and OCV penalties apply to all rolls (p 51 FRED, sidebar). That way, the haymaker makes you vulnerable to all attacks, while the tiger kick (name pulled out of a hat) with a +1 DCV bonus, only applies to martial arts (you get no bonus vs ranged, but no penalty either). This would keep the DCV skill levels (5 and 8) as something better than a standard maneuver, and make them worth buying (not that they were ever useless - my campaigns rarely see less than 5 pt levels).

[Kristopher]

What boggles my mind is the idea that a 3-pt CSL with a pistol can be used to improve your DCV against ranged attacks. That makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Kristopher

What boggles my mind is the idea that a 3-pt CSL with a pistol can be used to improve your DCV against ranged attacks. That makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

It makes sense to me. We don't need to have a confusing case-by-case basis for 3-pt CSls bog us down and make us hit the reference book. Be happy that this is one of the occasions DOJ took the practical route instead of the philosophical route like they did with speed, damage shield, instant change, and regeneration.

[Kristopher]

I suppose.

 

It's just that being a good shot doesn't really make you harder to hit.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Look at it this way - if you know enough about marksmanship to warrant levels, you also know how to move in such a way as to present a lower profile, make it hard for someone to draw a bead on you and otherwise be a bit harder to hit.

[austenandrews]

For ease of play, in my games I let HtH levels apply to DCV for any incoming attacks. Ranged levels apply only to OCV. If pressed, I'd probably allow ranged levels to negate DCV penalties for ranged maneuvers, but it hasn't come up yet. (I haven't run my fantasy game since FH came out. I'm not going to use the archery=1/2 DCV ruling, except for longbows, so this may not come up at all.)

 

-AA

[Kristopher]

Originally posted by JeffreyWKramer

Look at it this way - if you know enough about marksmanship to warrant levels, you also know how to move in such a way as to present a lower profile, make it hard for someone to draw a bead on you and otherwise be a bit harder to hit.

 

The problem is, that's not at all true to the reality of the situation.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Originally posted by Kristopher

The problem is, that's not at all true to the reality of the situation.

 

Well, in reality it doesn't work very reliably, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't work at all - particularly against a fairly unskilled (i.e., low-OCV) person firing at you. In comics, I've actually seen some of Punisher's feats attributed to this sort of thing - he's so good with guns, he can tell where a guy's gonna fire.

 

Besides, we are talking comic books, pulp fiction and action movies here, and people in those genres anticipate and move out of the way of things like *grenade blasts.* Letting an expert marksman who is aware he's being shot at jink around a bit to try to throw off the other guy's aim doesn't seem too out there. YMMV, though.

[pinecone]

I agree it certainly models Movie "reality" I remember from my early youth watching cowboy films where a gunslinger would practice dropping and rolling while shooting....that to me is putting levels with "Guns" on DCV...if you don't agree then you can purchase 2 point levels with OCV for guns and get a price break for a less useful level......