Multi-Form

[bjbrown]

A (potential) player in a game I'm developing thinks that I am being unreasonable by adding a house rule to the Multi-Form power.

I want to bring back this rule from 4th Edition: "The maximum total points the second form can have is equal to the total points in its base form, minus all Multiform costs." This part is left out of the 5th Edition rule.

Thus, under 4th Edition, which is the rule I want to use, a 150-point character with Multi-Form could have a maximum of a 125-point alternate form. (Base form is 150 and has a 25-point Multi-form power.)

The faq suggests that is reasonable to limit Multi-Form in this way: "If you're willing to do the extra math (or your GM makes you ), you can figure out the 'point break' at which the true form's (total points - points spent on Multiform) equal each alternate form's points."

I want to implement my house rule (adopted from the 4th Edition rule) because I think that it's a consistent way to deal with the problem of having essentially free alternate forms. The player, however, thinks it cripples all the forms to have only 125 points to spend on each alternate form, and only 125 points left for the base form after paying for Multiform.

Am I being unreasonable by imposing the 4th Edition rule as a house rule?

[Pattern Ghost]

House rule number one: Your house, your rules.

[Battlestaff]

I don't think you're being unreasonable at all.

 

In your posting you present a logical argument for why you think Multiform should be done a particular way. As long as you have thought out the reasons for implementing a house rule, and it works for you and your group, there shouldn't be a problem. I am kinda wondering about your player saying you are 'crippling' his characters by only allowing a base 125 points, instead of the 150 points.

 

Talk with your player, and give him an explanation of why you've implemented this house rule. Once he understands where you are coming from, he might be willing to accept the house rule more. Also, he can explain his problems with the limitations, and if he makes a compelling enough argument, you might consider giving him a "one-character exemption."

[melessqr]

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me... Otherwise the limitation is however many Disads you'll allow him to tack onto each form...

 

Melessqr

[JeffreyWKramer]

Your game, your call, but I greatly prefer the 5E Multiform rules to the 4E ones. For many character types, the base form should not be the most powerful one.

 

Using your ruling, the base form for Beast Boy (of Teen Titans) would be a blue whale or something like that - a form he rarely takes, and not at all the human being he normally is.

 

Your way of doing it may work well for some Multiform concepts, but it doesn't really reflect how many of those sorts of characters are presented in the comics.

 

Keep in mind the fact that if someone's Multiforms are worth more than the base form, that just means those alternate forms will have a pile of extra Disadvantages - which, if done right, means the potential benefits are self-limiting. Make sure the Disadvantages are actually disadvantageous and you shouldn't have a problem.

 

Personally, I think the current Multiform rules are among the very best changes from 4E to 5E.

[JmOz]

Well,

 

What about using a varient of the Followers rule?

 

Simply put: MF can be up to base points for /5 after wich it is 1/1?

[Agent Escafarc]

Originally posted by JmOz

Well,

 

What about using a varient of the Followers rule?

 

Simply put: MF can be up to base points for /5 after wich it is 1/1?

 

This is the one we use and it works ok.

[Vondy]

Its your game and it doesn't seem unreasonable. So you shouldn't feel bad about enforcing it.

 

On the other hand - there are concepts where the base form should not be the most powerful form, and insofar as the most powerful form doesn't break your respective campaign limits I ask not whether its unreasonable, but whether it is not, with suffiecient GM review of proposed concepts, unecessary?

 

This is a house rule I would begin with the words: "in general..." and then consider well argued exceptions that are not patently abusive.

 

You still have the option, upon review, of printing the rule out on 100 sheets of paper, rolling them into a tube, and cramming them down the throat of any twink who gets carried away.

[FenrisUlf]

Experience and Multiform

 

While we're on the subject -- how does one handle experience points and buying new/improving old multiforms? After all, if I can put five points on MF and get twice as many new bodies, that is a LOT of power for a very low price. And how does one apportion experience to the multiforms? Does one XP = 5 CP for a 'form, or is it handled on a one for one basis, just like for the primary form?

[tesuji]

I will suggest a different approach.

 

Divorce base form from the points limit.

 

House rule 1: All forms, except the base form, are limited to the campaign max minus the multiform cost except the base form. So, if the character is limited to 350 and has a 40 multiform, no form can be above 310.

 

House rule 2: The base form is limited to campaign max but must pay for the multiform. (In effect this puts him at the same value max as the others.)

 

In 4e, the points limit of "main form pays for multiform" followed by "other forms have only base form minus the multiform" is effectively the same as saying" everyone pays" except that it locks the decision of base form to the highest form.

 

So, now beast boy, in a 350 game, could have his base form as a 150 pt midget blue thingy with a lot of multiforms, each of which could be no more than 350 minus his multiform cost. The base form no longer needs to be the most expensive.

 

IMO they really did not need to lify the "points minus multi" cap from 4e, all they needed to do was to change it from "base form minus..." to "campaign limit minus..." and they cover the banner hulk et al notions.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Experience and Multiform

 

Originally posted by FenrisUlf

While we're on the subject -- how does one handle experience points and buying new/improving old multiforms? After all, if I can put five points on MF and get twice as many new bodies, that is a LOT of power for a very low price. And how does one apportion experience to the multiforms? Does one XP = 5 CP for a 'form, or is it handled on a one for one basis, just like for the primary form?

 

This is covered in great detail in the FAQ, but I'll try to cover the highlights here.

 

Technically speaking only the Base Form spends experience. As you noted, +5 points doubles the number of Multiforms the character can choose between. Each can be made of up to as many points as the highest-cost Multiform, but need not be that expensive. I personally don't see this as particularly overpowering, so long as the GM is careful what he or she allows the player to purchase as Multiforms. Ones that are abusive, outside character concept or exceed campaign limits should be rejected out of hand. So long as these aren't the case, all having multiple forms does is give a player more options, with the limit that not all the options are available at any given moment. This is no more broken than a Multipower, and probably less so than a Cosmic VPP.

 

Look at it this way. If Captain Zoology can already become an eagle, a t-rex, a shark and a tiger, five points allowing him to also become a giant squid, a cobra, a cheetah and an elephant doesn't really imbalance anything. Some of the time he can run faster, grapple better or be stronger, but he can't do them all at the same time, and none of those abilities is particularly outstanding for a superhero campaign. If the Medium (Multiform defined as being possessed by various spirits and gaining different powers/skills reflecting these spirits) already can become a gunslinger, a martial artist, a scientific genius and an Atlantean wizard, adding the forms of a deceased Golden Age hero, a Civil War general, a professional athlete and a medieval alchemist certainly adds more variety, but assuming these characters don't violate the campaign limits, that versatility carries it's own limiting factor - the wizard can't call on the general's tactics knowledge, the superhero's STR or the gunslinger's firearms skills.

 

Alternately, one can spend experience to improve the various Multiforms. One point spent in this way translates to +5 Points for each of the various Multiforms. Thus, if a character has 8 Multiforms built on 350 pts, spending 1 XP makes the value of each Multiform up to 355 pts. Those extra five points can be spent to strengthen the individual Multiforms, buy off Disadvantages, etc.

 

If one finds this potentially abusive - which certainly could happen if someone started min-maxing - a GM might go with Steve's suggestion in the FAQ and require a player to spend 5 XP points on non-Multiform aspects of the Base Character for every 1 he or she puts into improving the Multiforms. That way, you avoid the potential of 10 xp = each of the multiforms being 50 points better, which could (if they started at the campaign's point maximum or higher) translate to the Multiforms being effectively 40 or more points stronger than the other characters in the campaign.