yamamura Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 I have a player who wants to create a Cryokinetic and wants to be able to lower the temp to a point where lock won't turn (and moving part) and cars won't start. So can this be handle with suppress (mechanical parts) or is there another way? Any help would be much appreciated. Thanx in Advance G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 If the items will never function again, plain ol' damage (EB, KA). Entangle, area effect, v. mechanical objects. You'd have to "chip away the ice" to get them to work. And a kind GM might just include it as a side effect of Environmental Control that is bought to a really low level. ("I'd let you open that door, but you just took the room down to 40 below; the circuits iced over") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C_Zeree Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Originally posted by Blue If the items will never function again, plain ol' damage (EB, KA). Or Dispel vs. Mechanical Objects With anywhere from a +1/2 to +1 advantage, for the broad category of powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalGolem Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 This could also be considered a transformation attack; 10pts per d6 (maybe 15); turns "moving parts" into "frozen-solid non-moving parts", heals when target "thaws out". This is a potentially powerful effect, considering most machines/objects don't have power defense, but then, I've learned from experience that extreme cold can and will mess up any machine made by man, so in that respect it's quite realistic. DGv3.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 I'm not even going to bother looking it up, because I don't care what the book says. Using Dispel as a way to destroy/damage permanent things is just plain wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaratustra Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Telekinesis, Continuous, only to impede movement. Optionally, if you think inanimate objects have SPD, SPD Drain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C_Zeree Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Originally posted by Kristopher I'm not even going to bother looking it up, because I don't care what the book says. Using Dispel as a way to destroy/damage permanent things is just plain wrong. ::Putting on devil's horns and a lawyers outfit:: How is dispel vs Armor (Spell of Rusting)... Any different than EB, Only Against Metal Objects (-1/2 to -1) any different? In fact the EB might be better because you can use it against all metal objects, where you need atleast a +1/4 avantage to Dispell to use it agaisnt more than Armor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Because each power is suppose to do certain things. A dispell is suppose to stop a power for a moment (To cancel one use of the power) not to keep it gone. That is what a drain or surpress is for, if your goal is to damage something, then you are looking at one of 5 powers (Ego Blast, RKA, HKA, EB, HA). If it is body damage (Such as damageing armor) you are looking at either a HKA or RKA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaratustra Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 But that Dispel can be used against -any- type of armor, whether iron, stone or fruitcake, unless you add the same Only Vs. Metal Armor (-1/2 to -1). Plus, it can affect Unbreakable and non-foci armor items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Dispel should not affect constant or persistent powers. What's so hard to understand about that? Of course, once I look it up in FRED, I'm even more torqued about it. It's 3 pts per die, and it's being used to ruin, or even destroy, foci, at range! So instead of RKA or a ranged BODY Drain, either of which costs 15 pts per die, you can now shred power armor for 3 pts per die, and it's useless until repaired. Hell, even if you put the "only affects inanimate objects" -1 Limit on the RKA or Drain, you're still looking at 7.5 pts per die, or TWO AND A HALF TIMES the cost of the Dispel. WTF? Seriously, give me a break here. Dispel is cheap because, as far as I knew, it was only really usefull against temporary manifestations of powers. There is NO WAY I'd allow half the uses discussed in FRED on any character, PC or NPC, in any of my games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C_Zeree Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Woa! Simmer down Kristopher...its ok that's what house rules are for. Jus to set thngs straight: I only allow dispel if it fits genre ideas. Dispel magic is always tricky. And I believe a proper spell of rusting, destroying a focus, is an RKA, bc it does cost more and fits the idea of what you're trying to do. But Numbers for a second: 30 pt sword, 4 def 5 body. Take it out with an RKA - 45 pt (3d6) With dispel 30 pts (10d6) (As a GM I would not give a high disadvantage for only metal on dispel, but that's me) 15 pts more for the RKA, not as bad as everyone is shouting at. Just trying to provide options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted November 8, 2003 Report Share Posted November 8, 2003 Dispel to break objects is perfectly balanced and works great. Think about it...that's why we get a point break for building our powers in a focus, isn't it? Dispel is just another way to take them away (especially those pesky inaccessible and inobvious foci enemies never seem to find or be able to target). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted November 8, 2003 Report Share Posted November 8, 2003 I disagree, We get points for being able to have said item taken away. Dispell is designed to stop a single effect from happening (Or multiple effects), or to put it another way it is designed to interup a power use. Dispell makes a great way to interupt a continous power, but to say you got hit by a dispell so your gun does not work anymore seems wrong. Take this for instance, how would you build the classic archer trick of putting an arrow through the barrel of a gun? A dispell seems appropriate. After the arrow is sticking out the gun, all it should take to fix the problem is to remove the arrow (I realise it probably would take more in the real world, so what?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyWKramer Posted November 8, 2003 Report Share Posted November 8, 2003 That's why you rule a GM that some Dispel effects vs. foci, depending on the Foci in question and the Special Effect of the Dispel, don't entirely trash the item in question, but rather jam or break it, such that one can get it working again fairly quickly (2-4 phases, maybe), with an appropriate Skill roll (Weaponsmith, Electronics, Gadgeteering). Granted, that's going to make more sense for some sorts of foci (it's easier to fix a jammed gun than a suit of chainmail), but most of the time something reasonable can be devised with some thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamamura Posted November 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2003 Just want to jump in for a moment and say thanxs for the idea of using transform to freeze moving parts. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted November 8, 2003 Report Share Posted November 8, 2003 Originally posted by JeffreyWKramer That's why you rule a GM that some Dispel effects vs. foci, depending on the Foci in question and the Special Effect of the Dispel, don't entirely trash the item in question, but rather jam or break it, such that one can get it working again fairly quickly (2-4 phases, maybe), with an appropriate Skill roll (Weaponsmith, Electronics, Gadgeteering). Granted, that's going to make more sense for some sorts of foci (it's easier to fix a jammed gun than a suit of chainmail), but most of the time something reasonable can be devised with some thought. That blows the "Perfectly Balanced" argument out of the water My F/X desroyes your gun, but his F/X only pauses it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyWKramer Posted November 8, 2003 Report Share Posted November 8, 2003 Originally posted by JmOz That blows the "Perfectly Balanced" argument out of the water My F/X desroyes your gun, but his F/X only pauses it Not necessarily, so long as your and his special effects each are more advantageous in some circumstances and less so in others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkling Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 I have to look this up. If I'd known that Suppress or Dispel could permanently break foci, I would never have purchased Drain for the effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 I'm begging you to take the high road and stick with Drain or KA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 Originally posted by Farkling I have to look this up. If I'd known that Suppress or Dispel could permanently break foci, I would never have purchased Drain for the effect. Yeah, I only recently ran across this apparently new feature of Dispel and Suppress, I don't like it. I think foci should (generally, setting SFX aside for the moment) only be broken by KAs and similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 Originally posted by zornwil Yeah, I only recently ran across this apparently new feature of Dispel and Suppress, I don't like it. I think foci should (generally, setting SFX aside for the moment) only be broken by KAs and similar. IMO... Dispel: for stopping things that aren't permanent. Suppress: for temporarily stopping permanent things. Damaging stuff: for permanently stopping permanent things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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