Interrupt!

[Christopher R Taylor]

One concept in a lot of computer games not used much in real RPGs is the "interrupt" where you kick or bash someone and that causes them to stop doing whatever their action is, as long as it takes a little while to accomplish.  Its a matter of timing, which is easier on a computer game but the concept can carry over to real RPGs.

 

I've been thinking about how to do this, but it seems to me that a Change Environment, forcing the target to make a roll to keep doing what they are doing would suffice.  Its not really changing any environment at all, but it does use the rules to accomplish a specific effect.  A CON roll for example to not lose concentration on an attack, or an INT roll to keep casting a spell.

 

Tougher to simulate is the "...and you cannot use abilities of this kind" which I think is a bit too powerful for a casual effort by a player, but could be done with a game world rule, a suppress, a mental entangle, etc.

[Surrealone]

The interruptible powers in video games of which you speak are, essentially, all built with some form of the Concentration limitation .... and usually with the Extra Time (i.e. casting time) limitation, as well ... where the length of time tends to vary with and be specific to given abilities within the games.

 

The easiest way to handle what you want seems to be a campaign requirement that all powers have some form of Concentration (so they behave like video game powers) ... and maybe water it down with a house rule such that there's not a DCV impact (or it's reduced).  Frankly, though, most video games make you a sitting duck when casting/enabling an interruptible power ... so I tend to think the DCV penalty is appropriate.

 

To wit, check out the rules for Concentration on 6eV1 pg 372 where it is stated that taking any amount of BODY or STUN from any attack power interrupts Concentration (and where, at the GM's option, an EGO roll may be an option to maintain it when made at -1 per 2 STUN taken or other effect suffered).

 

Thus, it seems to me there's no need to reinvent the wheel, here.  We have a perfectly good one.

[Lucius]

Thus, it seems to me there's no need to reinvent the wheel, here.  We have a perfectly good one.

I agree. It's a good wheel, let's roll with it.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says, let's get wheel.

[Christopher R Taylor]

OK well here's the difference in my mind.

 

Most interrupt attacks don't actually deal any damage.  They just interrupt.  And they don't work on everything, just on specific abilities which are deemed interruptable.  By building it with a CE, you take the build out of the specific powers, and put them onto the attack; now it can interrupt anything, whatever the build, if it has extra time.

 

For example: haymaker.  Guy starts to wind up... BAM, make a CON roll or you can't keep doing it.

 

My interest here isn't "reinvent the wheel" its rather "hmm that's an interesting effect, how would it work in Hero?"

 

This isn't a house rule, its not some clever new device.  Its just a use of Change Environment to simulate a concept.

[Surrealone]

Ok, I see.  That said, you seem to be looking to apply a limitation (interruptibility ... which comes with Concentration, when taken) to another character's power ... that wasn't bought with that limitation.

 

That concept seems pretty questionable, mechanically.  It's almost like wanting a Naked Limitation (which, like a Naked Advantage, would be a power unto itself) that's Usable on Others ... since you're truly looking to apply an interrupt to another character's power ... which wasn't bought in such a way that it's interruptible.

 

Surreal

 

P.S. Haymaker is a maneuver, not a power.  You can interrupt it with Block .. and define your special effects for your Block as interruption, yes?

[Christopher R Taylor]

Change Environment allows you to force a roll or the target faces x consequence (falls over, etc).  That's the definition of how the power can work.

[Cantriped]

Gestures and Incantations also both have a clause stating that being affected by any power that requires an Attack Roll prevents activation of the power (CC 106), and neither allows a Roll to resist it (unlike Concentration).

 

There is a Stunning Combat Effect for Change Environment in one of the APGs which basically forces the target to make CON Rolls against being Stunned every phase it is maintained (they get bonuses to the roll the longer they remain Stunned just like with Mind Controll)... it was fairly expensive and considered to be obscenely overpowered.

 

There is also a Combat Effect for Change Environment that can Impose Limitations (like Gestures and Incantations) in one of the APGs.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I like the idea of using drain to impose limitations on targets, personally, like a curse effect.  That and disads, shorter term than transform.

[Lucius]

 

There is also a Combat Effect for Change Environment that can Impose Limitations (like Gestures and Incantations) in one of the APGs.

Indeed, we have more wheels than we know what to do with.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Wheels within wheels says the palindromedary

[Hugh Neilson]

One concept in a lot of computer games not used much in real RPGs is the "interrupt" where you kick or bash someone and that causes them to stop doing whatever their action is, as long as it takes a little while to accomplish.  Its a matter of timing, which is easier on a computer game but the concept can carry over to real RPGs.

Emphasis added. Sounds like Holding a phase to Interrupt an attack with some form of Block, or Dispel, or what have you. Dispel on Any Attack Ability, used as they begin to use the ability, would seem to shut the ability off so it fails.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Sounds like Holding a phase to Interrupt an attack with some form of Block, or Dispel, or what have you

 

 

Such as "change environment, to force a roll or an effect takes place"

[Surrealone]

What is it with you and Change Environment, lately???

[Christopher R Taylor]

Well the fear thing I hadn't considered until someone else brought it up.  The ability to force someone to make a roll or suffer an undisclosed consequence in the rules has a lot of possibilities to it I'd not considered before.

[Hugh Neilson]

It tends to be a useful possibility when trying to do something unusual. As I think on it, we had someone looking for a way for a bear's paw swipe to knock someone prone - seems like CE to make a DEX roll, or a STR roll, or even an opposed STR roll, could work well for that.

[DasBroot]

As I think on it, we had someone looking for a way for a bear's paw swipe to knock someone prone

 

Mechanically, the bear uses the Leg sweep maneuver.  It's up to the GM to describe it as a claw swipe instead of a drop and spinning leg swipe.  Though if he wants a kung fu bear that works too.

 

As for the topic at hand I think a held attack can do do most of what is desired already - as stated all those charge powers you can interrupt in an MMO would have Extra Time, which is interrupted by anything that requires an attack roll.  

 

If you want to 'interrupt' 'instants', though, a held action that forces a roll for them to continue does seem neat. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

If you want to 'interrupt' 'instants', though, a held action that forces a roll for them to continue does seem neat. 

 

 

It also gives you a way to interrupt stuff without a specific limitation such as haymaker.  And it lets you build a specific talent, for example, like "Bash" that lets a player attempt to stop any action.

[Hugh Neilson]

Mechanically, the bear uses the Leg sweep maneuver.  It's up to the GM to describe it as a claw swipe instead of a drop and spinning leg swipe.  Though if he wants a kung fu bear that works too.

If the GM is following RAW< that requires the bear invest 10 points in martial arts maneuvers, plus I don't believe he wanted the DC, OCV and DCV modifiers.

 

"You can only knock someone over with Leg Sweep" sounds a lot more like a d20 Feat than a Hero game to me.

[DasBroot]

True.  Come to think of it, though, since most bears one would fight would 'typically' be in a Heroic level game, where it's recommended knockback does knockdown, shouldn't just being hit by a str 25 bear's normal swipe already knock someone prone?

[Hugh Neilson]

Knockdown was also discussed, but it seemed like the poster wanted something special, something more reliable or, well, something else.

[Greywind]

Didn't WotC do away with Interrupts a long time ago?

[DasBroot]

Did they? That's a shame. Back in high school a Magic game wasn't a Magic game until someone had flipped the table in a teenage rage about being unable to put anything on the table for the third. turn. in, a... ROWWW!!!! *flip*

[Christopher R Taylor]

Didn't WotC do away with Interrupts a long time ago?

 

 

Sort of, they got rid of it as a category in the rules that was always faster than everything else.

[Cantriped]

Basically they made every "Instant" able to act as an "Interrupt" by inventing the concept of "the stack". Basically you stack cards on top of one another as they are played, and then they are resolved top-to-bottom. 

For example, I play Lighting Bolt, then you play Counterspell on top of my Lightning bolt, then I play my own Counterspell on top of your Counterspell. When resolving that "Stack", my Counterspell counters your Counterspell, leaving my Lightning Bolt uncountered... so you take 3 Damage. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah kinda, they always had the stack but it became more formalized.  Interrupts let you, at any time, use them and it broke the stack: this always goes off first, no matter what, until damage is dealt or the turn ends.

 

As they did more tournaments and created their tour with an annual winner, they noticed that certain rules were coming up over and over as confusing or needing special interpretation and caused problems.  So they did away with them.  That meant they lost some things that were actually really good ideas but were causing problems like Trample, for instance.  MTG is a game that really took its self too seriously in my opinion.  They rule tinkered and tournament-focused themselves out of being so easy and fun to play into something a bit too serious.

[Cantriped]

I dislike that they keep introducing new Named Mechanics (like Trample and Haste) every season. Some of them actually expand the game is good ways (like Equipment and Flash), others are simply gimmicks that should have been written out instead (like Cascade and Extort).