WH40K Hero

[knasser2]

6 minutes ago, Cantriped said:

For a KISS approach an extra level of Armor Piercing or a few extra DCs for its tier will be sufficient.

 

Another idea that comes to mind is to apply Area Of Effect (1m Radius) to part of the damage (say half) to represent that a close bystander (not to mention all of the target's accessible equipment) might catch shrapnel from the explosion, but wouldn't suffer the full effect of the explosion. On paper it looks complex (the nature of writing out partially advantaged weapons), but in practice you can simply note it as a Splash Weapon on the weapon tables (indicating the spash damage and radius in parentheses so it can vary from weapon to weapon) and include a defination of that property in the table notes.

 

Well it's already got increased DC reflected in that it does 2d6 RKA whereas the less powerful lasgun does 1d6+1E. And it already has one level of Penetration and +1 StunX. So in terms of damage and armour piercing, I think the fluff is mostly taken care of. I just thought adding a chance to knock people back / down would be a nice touch to represent the micro-explosion.

[knasser2]

Have now done the template for armour and have started populating it. Screenshots at the bottom.

 

What I have so far are these (because it's a bit hard to read in the images):

Quote

Armoured Clothing (rPD 1; rED 1; OIF -½; Real Armour -¼; Mass Normal -1 ) Active Points: 3. Real Points: 1.

 

Quote

Heavy Leathers (rPD 2; rED 2; OIF -½; Real Armour -¼; Mass Normal -1 ) Active Points: 6. Real Points: 2.

 

Quote

Flak Armour (rPD 4; rED 5; OIF -½; Real Armour -¼; Mass Normal -1 ) Active Points: 15. Real Points: 5.

 

Quote

Mesh Armour (rPD 6; rED 5; OIF -½; Real Armour -¼; Mass Half -½ ) Active Points: 18. Real Points: 8.

 

Quote

Carapace Armour (rPD 8; rED 8; OIF -½; Real Armour -¼; Mass Half -½ ) Active Points: 24. Real Points: 11.

 

Quote

Light Power Armour (rPD 10; rED 10; +5 STR; Life Support (Self-Contained Breathing, Safe Environemnt: Low Pressure / Vacuum, Safe Environment: Intense Cold, Safe Environment: High Radiation) 14; OIF -½; Real Armour -¼; Mass None -1 ) Active Points: 49. Real Points: 18.

 

 

 

[Cantriped]

44 minutes ago, knasser2 said:

 

I'm a bit confused why it's a limitation. That implies everything does Knockback by default and this is a downgrade to Knockdown. And that is actually how I read the rules but earlier you said weapons don't do Knockback/Knockdown by default. Should it not be a +¼ Advantage to bolt weapons of Does Knockdown?

Any Attack Power which causes BODY damage also automatically causes Knockdown/back as appropriate to the campaign (which is default depends upon the campaign). Killing Attacks cause 1d6 (3.5 on average) less BODY worth of Knockdown/back (due to rolling 3d6 to determine Knock' instead of 2d6).

 

Part of your confusion may have come from the fact that I argue for giving almost all weapons the limitation No Knockdown/back... So that swords and pistols don't send people flying regardless of rolls. No Knockback and No Knockdown are -1/4 regardless of campaign type.

 

So the values of Does Knockdown and Does Knockback are circumstantial.

If attacks cause Knockback by default than Does Knockdown is a limitation for those that would have caused Knockback instead (like Blast), and an advantage for those that would not (like Flash).

If attacks cause Knockdown by default, than Does Knockdown is still an advantage for some powers, but is never a limitation. Does Knockback becomes an advantage for all such powers.

[knasser2]

4 minutes ago, Cantriped said:

Any Attack Power which causes BODY damage also automatically causes Knockdown/back as appropriate to the campaign (which is default depends upon the campaign). Killing Attacks cause 1d6 (3.5 on average) less BODY worth of Knockdown/back (due to rolling 3d6 to determine Knock' instead of 2d6).

 

Part of your confusion may have come from the fact that I argue for giving almost all weapons the limitation No Knockdown/back... So that swords and pistols don't send people flying regardless of rolls. No Knockback and No Knockdown are -1/4 regardless of campaign type.

 

So the values of Does Knockdown and Does Knockback are circumstantial.

If attacks cause Knockback by default than Does Knockdown is a limitation for those that would have caused Knockback instead (like Blast), and an advantage for those that would not (like Flash).

If attacks cause Knockdown by default, than Does Knockdown is still an advantage for some powers, but is never a limitation. Does Knockback becomes an advantage for all such powers.

 

Got it. Yes, that's the source of my confusion. Plus I had missed that it was specific to Killing Attacks.

 

So... there's quite the difference between Knockdown and Knockback. The former of which is the default for Hero level settings like WH40K. I can see Knockdown making sense on any killing attack. A knife may not have the force to knock you down in and of itself, but if you get stabbed, stumbling back 2m is a pretty instinctive response. But in practice, I'm not sure how much difference it's going to make. If it only triggers when you take more than half your Body in damage, it's only going to come up in cases where the character is blown half to Hell already. Whereas it might be nice to have someone knocked flat by the impact but their armour prevents any actual damage.

[Cantriped]

31 minutes ago, knasser2 said:

 

Got it. Yes, that's the source of my confusion. Plus I had missed that it was specific to Killing Attacks.

 

So... there's quite the difference between Knockdown and Knockback. The former of which is the default for Hero level settings like WH40K. I can see Knockdown making sense on any killing attack. A knife may not have the force to knock you down in and of itself, but if you get stabbed, stumbling back 2m is a pretty instinctive response. But in practice, I'm not sure how much difference it's going to make. If it only triggers when you take more than half your Body in damage, it's only going to come up in cases where the character is blown half to Hell already. Whereas it might be nice to have someone knocked flat by the impact but their armour prevents any actual damage.

With the default Knockdown rules a knife can cause knockdown without the target taking any BODY damage.

Presuming a standard knife (a 1/2d6 HKA, STR Min 6) and a character with 16 STR or more.

If he hits the target the knife can do up to 7 BODY (on 1d6+1), On average this will result in no Knockdown/back, but if you rolled a 6 or less on the Knockback/down modifier (on 3d6) the attack will cause Knockdown (or 2-8m Knockback). This remains true even if the target wears Armor providing 7 or more rPD (enough to stop the knife from doing BODY).

 

Note, Space Marine armor looks crazy heavy, and probably provides Knockback Resistance (use the Mass templates for guidelines as to how much). Because they are determined the same way, Knockback Resistance also protects the character from Knockdown (unless it is caused by an Impairing or Disabling Wound, as those are described as being automatic).

[knasser2]

13 minutes ago, Cantriped said:

With the default Knockdown rules a knife can cause knockdown without the target taking any BODY damage.

Presuming a standard knife (a 1/2d6 HKA, STR Min 6) and a character with 16 STR or more.

If he hits the target the knife can do up to 7 BODY (on 1d6+1), On average this will result in no Knockdown/back, but if you rolled a 6 or less on the Knockback/down modifier (on 3d6) the attack will cause Knockdown (or 2-8m Knockback). This remains true even if the target wears Armor providing 7 or more rPD.

 

Note, Space Marine armor looks crazy heavy, and probably provides Knockback Resistance (use the Mass templates for guidelines as to how much). Because they are determined the same way, Knockback Resistance also protects the character from Knockdown (unless it is caused by an Impairing or Disabling Wound, as those are described as being automatic).

 

Okay. That makes a LOT more sense. I can't figure out how it's calculated before deducting Defence by the wording in the book because it reads to me as if it's the BODY damage that's actually taken by the target. Which is why I've been stuck on this. I thought it must be the amount dealt initially.

 

Yes, Power Armour of all kinds is crazy heavy. Even the light version of power armour is 40kg. Space Marine Armour is 180kg according to the RPG version of WH40K. I'm building it with the 0 mass quality though as it has motors to compensate for its own weight. Terminator armour is essentially walking around in a tank bodysuit. I didn't know Knock Back resistance was a thing that existed, but this is Hero, so of course it does! I'll add that to all versions of Power Armour. Good call!

 

How do you think it's looking? Think it's shaping up?

 

EDIT: I should probably add a power limit to the Power Armours. Space Marines would be very long - on the order of days or weeks. But the Light Power Armour in the book was listed as being only around 5-10 hours. Do you think that should be handled with charges?

[eepjr24]

11 minutes ago, knasser2 said:

 

EDIT: I should probably add a power limit to the Power Armours. Space Marines would be very long - on the order of days or weeks. But the Light Power Armour in the book was listed as being only around 5-10 hours. Do you think that should be handled with charges?

I'd look at Fuel Charges. I assume a light power armor user can extend the life by turning the powered portion on and off? What happens if you are using it without the power? Is some of the Def still effective? Does it just increase the weight and END cost?

 

- E

[knasser2]

5 minutes ago, eepjr24 said:

I'd look at Fuel Charges. I assume a light power armor user can extend the life by turning the powered portion on and off? What happens if you are using it without the power? Is some of the Def still effective? Does it just increase the weight and END cost?

 

- E

 

Heh. Let me put it this way - ever had a full body cast?

 

EDIT: Fuel Charges seem the correct approach but looking at the table it's going to get insanely expensive. I might have to make a custom limitation for it as it's not _normally_ going to come up in play but will on occasion.

[eepjr24]

1 minute ago, knasser2 said:

 

Heh. Let me put it this way - ever had a full body cast?

Not Fuel charges then. Probably one continuing charge of 6 hours then.

 

- E

[Cantriped]

15 minutes ago, knasser2 said:

Okay. That makes a LOT more sense. I can't figure out how it's calculated before deducting Defence by the wording in the book because it reads to me as if it's the BODY damage that's actually taken by the target. Which is why I've been stuck on this. I thought it must be the amount dealt initially.

You use the BODY Damage rolled on the dice; before any modifications have taken place (so before Hit Locations, Defenses, Damage Reduction), with one odd exception:

Damage Negation actually reduces the damage rolled (you literally roll fewer d6s), therefore it also reduces Knockback. Note that I hate DN because of all the corner cases it created, and I almost never use it.

 

Anyway the point is you don't do more Knockback with a headshot, or less against an armored target. The user's Attack, and the target's Mass and Position are the primary factors in determining Knockback/down.

[knasser2]

5 minutes ago, eepjr24 said:

Not Fuel charges then. Probably one continuing charge of 6 hours then.

 

- E

 

Okay. So it's not as bad as I thought. Looking at the charts on 6E1,pg.368/9, I'd build it with 1 charge but move it down 8 levels for a 1 day Continuing Charge. Meaning it would be +¼ Advantage. Is that right? And I should increase that advantage by a further +¼ to make it a Fuel Charge, representing it can be turned on and off? The Power Armour can't (reasonably) be used without power (you could just about move in the Light version), but you could take it off and put it back on again.

[eepjr24]

2 minutes ago, knasser2 said:

 

Okay. So it's not as bad as I thought. Looking at the charts on 6E1,pg.368/9, I'd build it with 1 charge but move it down 8 levels for a 1 day Continuing Charge. Meaning it would be +¼ Advantage. Is that right? And I should increase that advantage by a further +¼ to make it a Fuel Charge, representing it can be turned on and off? The Power Armour can't (reasonably) be used without power (you could just about move in the Light version), but you could take it off and put it back on again.

Exactly. Probably has "Extra Time: Only to activate" as well, to represent the time to put it on and power it up.

 

- E

[Cantriped]

1 minute ago, knasser2 said:

 

Okay. So it's not as bad as I thought. Looking at the charts on 6E1,pg.368/9, I'd build it with 1 charge but move it down 8 levels for a 1 day Continuing Charge. Meaning it would be +¼ Advantage. Is that right? And I should increase that advantage by a further +¼ to make it a Fuel Charge, representing it can be turned on and off? The Power Armour can't (reasonably) be used without power (you could just about move in the Light version), but you could take it off and put it back on again.

Note the special rules regarding Continuing and Fuel Charges when applied to Persistent Powers. Basically if the power it normally always on, even if you are unconsious, than Charges is Never an Advantage (its value remains -0 regardless of how long the charge lasts.

Personally I would use the Fuel Charge because it would allow the user to conserve power (it also includes submodifiers for how hard the fuel is to obtain compared to having it recover automatically each day).

 

There are very advanced (and granular) rules fir constructing and representing powered armor in the Hero System Equipment Guide. It might be worth researching. HSEG also has the most comprehensive set of equipment tables for 6th edition currently extant. Useful reference for such a equipment heavy campaign type.

[knasser2]

39 minutes ago, Cantriped said:

Note the special rules regarding Continuing and Fuel Charges when applied to Persistent Powers. Basically if the power it normally always on, even if you are unconsious, than Charges is Never an Advantage (its value remains -0 regardless of how long the charge lasts.

Personally I would use the Fuel Charge because it would allow the user to conserve power (it also includes submodifiers for how hard the fuel is to obtain compared to having it recover automatically each day).

 

There are very advanced (and granular) rules fir constructing and representing powered armor in the Hero System Equipment Guide. It might be worth researching. HSEG also has the most comprehensive set of equipment tables for 6th edition currently extant. Useful reference for such a equipment heavy campaign type.

 

I want to give the Light Power Armour a charge duration of 6 hours. The rule for Fuel Charges says to decrease it by -¼ if it's a limitation or increase it by +¼ if it's an advantage! So I guess it's just 0. And the same will be true of the Space Marine Power Armour which has a far longer duration of a week. It's just always going to be 0. Correct?

[Cantriped]

For Persistant powers like Resistant Protection and Knockback Resistance, yes. But not for powers like Flight or STR, that cost END to use.

[knasser2]

That makes it a bit fiddly. Some of the powers are persistent but I also have a strength boost in there.

 

So Space Marine Power Armour (the next level up)... I've added the Knockback Resistance as well.

Quote

Space Marine Power Armour (rPD 12; rED 12; +10 STR; Life Support (Self-Contained Breathing, Safe Environemnt: Low Pressure / Vacuum, Safe Environment: Intense Cold, Safe Environment: High Radiation, Safe Environment: Intense Heat) 15; Knockback Resistance: 4m; Nightvision 5; Enhanced Hearing: +2 PER 4; Enhanced Vision: +2 PER; Radio Perception/Transmission 10; Fuel Charge: 1 week 0; OIF -½; Real Armour -¼; Mass None -1 ) Active Points: 88. Real Points: 32.

 

[knasser2]

I realised I may have made a mistake. I've applied the advantage and limitation modifiers to the suit as a whole. Should I just be calculating the different powers of the suit independently as if they were all separate pieces of equipment and then just add them all to get a total? E.g. I've now added an advantaged of Hardened +¼ to the suit but this is specific to the protection, not the Life Support for which it has no meaning. So should I treat Life Support as it's own calculation? I looked at Power Frameworks but they seem to be for switching between powers and for the suit, all of its qualities are permanently on simultaneously.

[Cantriped]

You calculate each element of a compound power seperately. For example:

 

Powered Armor: Compound Power All Slots (39 APs); OIF (-1/2), Real Armor (-1/4)...

1)  Resistant Protection (5 rPD/5 rED), Hardened (+1/4) (19 APs). Cost: 11 points.

2)  Life Support (Self-Contained Breathing) (10 APs); 1 Fuel Charge Lasting 1 Day (-0), Linked (Slot 1; -1/4). Cost: 5 points.

Total Cost:  16 points.

 

EDIT: The total cost was wrong... so sleepy.

[knasser2]

1 hour ago, Cantriped said:

You calculate each element of a compound power seperately. For example:

 

Powered Armor: Compound Power All Slots (39 APs); OIF (-1/2), Real Armor (-1/4)...

1)  Resistant Protection (5 rPD/5 rED), Hardened (+1/4) (19 APs). Cost: 11 points.

2)  Life Support (Self-Contained Breathing) (10 APs); 1 Fuel Charge Lasting 1 Day (-0), Linked (Slot 1; -1/4). Cost: 5 points.

Total Cost:  16 points.

 

EDIT: The total cost was wrong... so sleepy.

 

Thanks. I'll need to redo the power armours then but thankfully that's not much. I've now also done layout for characters and started populating that. So looks like I'm well on my way to having a bare bones conversion (weapons, armour, characters and vehicles). There's a documents section on here, isn't there? Can anyone upload and share their conversions?

[Ninja-Bear]

11 minutes ago, knasser2 said:

 

Thanks. I'll need to redo the power armours then but thankfully that's not much. I've now also done layout for characters and started populating that. So looks like I'm well on my way to having a bare bones conversion (weapons, armour, characters and vehicles). There's a documents section on here, isn't there? Can anyone upload and share their conversions?

I like the presentation!

[knasser2]

1 minute ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I like the presentation!

 

Thanks. I created some standard formats for characters, vehicles, weapons and armour. I'll probably do some generic equipment versions as well. The HTML version is automatically generated from these files and the stylesheets just lay everything out as seen. So if I need to make some refinements later on (which I almost certainly will because I can make it look much more atmospheric than this), everything gets updated all together. Equally, as I type in new entries, they automatically get formatted and included.

[Cantriped]

41 minutes ago, knasser2 said:

Can anyone upload and share their conversions?

Yes!  You can even find a few of my write-ups there.

[Cantriped]

Your layouts should include PRE and EGO.

PRE is used for presence attacks (the mechanic used to frighten, inspire, and persuade others through raw charisma), and EGO sets the bar for resisting mental powers.

[knasser2]

4 minutes ago, Cantriped said:

Your layouts should include PRE and EGO.

PRE is used for presence attacks (the mechanic used to frighten, inspire, and persuade others through raw charisma), and EGO sets the bar for resisting mental powers.

 

?? They're both in there, left-hand column.

[Cantriped]

Blind and sleepy, I'm on a roll. Speaking of rolls... the Skills section should include the skill rolls to save you having to recalculate them over and over.