Newbie Question

[Griffonheart]

I am looking for a good supers system and was wondering why all of you have chosen this one.

 

I have played Mutants and Masterminds, Silver Age Sentinels, Marvel Universe (both the new one and the second edition), and Aberrant. I was wondering how this one compares.

 

Thanks for any input you guys can throw my way.

[Narthon]

I play this onr brcause I love how customisable it is. I like how there are base powers that you change with advantages, disadvantages, and special effects to make anything you could desire.

[Griffonheart]

I have found that most systems have that customization. Is this system different in how they do it?

 

Is there anything unique about this sytem that sets it above the rest?

[Solomon]

Four reasons I love HERO:

 

HERO system has the highest level of internal rules consistency I ever met, IMHO. It's a well-built, rock-solid system with very little in the way of flaws. Its major drawback is a steep learning curve. However, once you get to know the system, it runs very smoothly.

 

All the HERO rules I need lie within a single book, which is a definite plus as far as I'm concerned. Most RPG systems slowly "decay" over time as more options (classes, weapons, powers, whatnots) are added, until game balance is no more. With HERO, you get all the options you need at once.

 

HERO is higly flexible, and you don't even have to actually tweak the rules to fit a new setting. Most of the time you just need to set a few character creation guidelines to get the right "feel".

 

HERO books pack an excellent product value. HERO system is also well supported. Champions alone already has 8 titles, plus a monthly digital magazine. Easily the best-supported superheroic RPG currently on the market. Not counting how easy it is to convert 4th edition Champions books.

[Griffonheart]

How steep a learning curve? Some of my players have some difficulty learning a new systems, and none of them are too kean on the idea. The only problem is that they are only willing to buy books after they like a system, luckily I love books and so like to buy them and learn the system and then teach my friends.

 

Thanks agaon for the input guys. Another question, you say that you only need the one book to play the game, if thats true what do you get from the other books? Which of the other books do you recomend?

[Monolith]

Here is my standard answer when someone asks me about the HERO System.

 

Let's start with the bad first:

#1: Character creation is time consuming.

Hero is not a "roll it, pick it, play it" type game. You make the character exactly the way you want him/her to be. Most new people to the system take several hours to several days to flesh out a character the way they want them to be. Only the most experienced Hero System gamers can make a character in an hour or less.

 

#2: Character creation is math intensive.

You will need a calculator in most cases. You will also need to know how to add, subtract, multiply and divide. If you can do those four things easily, creating a character will be a breeze. If you have difficulty with math, character creation will be a major pain.

 

#3: Combat is time consuming.

Combats take time, especially for new gamers. Rolling 12 dice and adding them takes time. If you have 5 players and 1 GM, that's 6 people who will have to roll and add dice, probably 10-20 times a night each. Once again, this gets back to math. If you cannot add well, you will find the game slow. On the other hand, if you can add 12 dice quickly, or you use a die-rolling program of some sort, combat can move very quickly.

 

#4: There are infinite options.

That does not sound like a problem does it? But it is. If you are use to thinking inside the box, then being able to do whatever you can conceive can be a problem for many players. They are stuck in the D&D/Class/Level mentality. To have a successful Hero campaign you sometimes need to learn to think in a non-D&D fashion. Not all gamers are overly creative. Some needs strong guidelines such as classes to inspire their creativity. Unless the Hero GM sets up such guidelines, those types of gamers can struggle with the system.

 

Now for the good:

#1: There are infinite options.

See, it really wasn’t a problem. Hero is more open to simulating characters from fiction or literature. Want to play Gandalf with a sword and a mean uppercut? No problem. Want to play Doc Savage who is a master of many skills? No problem. Want to buy Batman’s utility belt with 50 different gadgets? No problem. With few exceptions, if you can think it, you can build it.

 

#2: The game works well for any genre.

Want to play superheroes? Hero works great. Want to play Fantasy? Hero works great. Want to play SciFi? Hero works great. Like pulp action? Hero works great. You get the point. The Hero System can do any genre, and almost every power level without any problems. The best part about Hero is that once you learn it, you have no reason to learn any other game system.

 

#3: The strong Hero community.

Hero has the strongest game community that you will find, anywhere. Hero might not have the number of gamers that D&D has, but the people here are always willing to give you a suggestion or two, or an idea on how to build something if you ask. That doesn’t mean that there are not arguments, but most of the time those arguments stem from having too many different ways of doing something. See how that infinite possibilities thing gets around?

 

Hero is a fun game once you get to know it. If you can stick with the game long enough to get past the learning curve of the problems mentioned above, you will probably end up loving it forever. If you are someone who doesn’t like to create or convert things though, you probably won’t care for the system. The game is so open that there just is not enough information to cover every possibility. But if you made it this far, you probably have the right stuff to learn and love the game.

[Solomon]

Originally posted by Griffonheart

How steep a learning curve? Some of my players have some difficulty learning a new systems, and none of them are too kean on the idea. The only problem is that they are only willing to buy books after they like a system, luckily I love books and so like to buy them and learn the system and then teach my friends.

 

If you've played a few other SH RPG, consider that HERO is a shade more complex than SAS, which makes it two shades more complex than M&M.

The most challenging (but also very rewarding, to most players) part of the game is character creation. Once you're done with that and get down to actual play, things run easier. Monolyth already said you'll need to do a lot of math during character creation. This never gets more complex than multiplying or dividing a whole, two-digit number by 1/4. Once you get to play, you'll only need to add or subtract.

 

DOJ/HERO Games is working on a downloadable, free simplified version of HERO, called "Sidekick". Once this is out, you'll be able to get a taste of the system and decide for yourself.

[Griffonheart]

About this strong community, does anyone have good fansites to recomend?

 

Thanks again, this stuff is really making me want to pick up the system.

[dugfromthearth]

Creating characters can be time consuming.

 

I strongly recommend looking at the 250 point project. It was 4th edition, not the most recent 5th edition of Hero, but most of it still applies.

 

What they did was design comic book heroes from DC, Marvel and others as 250pt Hero characters. You ca look through it and just copy a character or use it to get ideas.

 

http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/mathew/champions.html

 

In general there are a ton of free on-line resources from Hero players.

[Solomon]

Originally posted by Griffonheart

Thanks agaon for the input guys. Another question, you say that you only need the one book to play the game, if thats true what do you get from the other books? Which of the other books do you recomend?

 

The only HERO book with any susbstantial amount of hard rules is probably Ultimate Martial Artist, and even that is like just 10 pages.

Most other books have no rules at all. Just pre-built characters, martial arts styles, powers, vehicles etc. But the actual rules for building them are all in the single core book.

Plus of course you'll get background info, story seeds, adventures, settings, GMing advice etc.

 

HERO product usually fall within these categories:

 

Genre books. Books about a specific genre, its quirks and topics, sub-genres and how to convey the genre feel. Lots of GMing advice, some sample characters.

So far: Champions (Superheroes), Fantasy Hero, Star Hero (Science Fiction), Ninja Hero (Wuxia). Excellent books, all of them.

 

Setting Books: A single, consistent setting. Lots of background stuff, adventure seeds, characters.

So far: Champions Universe (for Champions), Terran Empire (for Star Hero).

 

Sub-setting books: In-depth look at a single feature in a Setting. A city, or an agenty, or a collection of enemies.

 

Adventures. 'Nuff said.

 

Ultimate Series: Cross-genre books.

So far: U Martial Artist (hystorical and fictional, useful for different settings), U Vehicle (from chariots to spaceships).

 

If you're planning on running a Champions game, and assuming you already own the rulesbook, I'd suggest getting (more or less in this order):

 

"Killers, Conquerors and Crooks". A collection of supervillains. Seeing a lot of complete characters gives you a good insight on the system and on the setting alike.

An adventure. "Battlegrounds is a nice multi-part, four-color adventure. "Shades of Black" is an awesome dark adventure with a mystical theme.

 

Now go and play. Later, consider getting these:

 

Setting books. "Champions Universe" and "Millenium City".

"UNTIL Superpowers Database". Lots of prebuilt powers, speeds things up during character generation, unless you need a really unusual power.

If you're so deep in superheroes you probably don't need the "Champions" book right now, but it's still very worth reding.

[Lord Liaden]

As far as fan generated websites, you'll find quite a few for various genres via the "Hero Links" link at the top of this page.

 

I'll drop by a little later with more input when I have a bit more time.

[Farkling]

If you are a superhero gamer at this time, or a comic reader, I would actualy recommend the Until Database over Conquerors, Killers and Crooks. you may not have a lot of use for the Champions Universe as built, depending on your favorite comc flavor...

 

But everything Monolith said is true.

[Lord Liaden]

Okay, I'm back with a little more breathing space.

 

I'm not going to snow you, Griffonheart; I'm not prepared to say that HERO System/Champions is the all-time greatest superhero RPG around. Nowadays in particular it has solid competition with the likes of Silver Age Sentinels and Mutants and Masterminds, both fine games. In fact quite a few of the HERO fans on these boards play those games, and a few prefer them for supers over HERO. The basis of those preferences often reflect a personal approach to gaming; faster, less detailed character generation, fewer dice to roll in combat, different mechanics that you may intuitively respond to better.

 

If your interest is primarily or exclusively supers games, one of HERO's greatest strengths - the ability to handle any genre, any power level, to make any character or artifact or effect in detail exactly as you want it - may not be as important to you.

 

All that being said, let me just tell you why it remains my superhero game of choice:

 

Reliability. The HERO System began as a superhero game, Champions, back in 1981. It remains one of the oldest RPGs and the oldest supers RPG still being published. Over the intervening two decades it's been contributed to by countless gamers, expanded, integrated, fine-tuned, and playtested to within an inch of its life. The result is a game engine that's been proven over the long haul; the kind of rules glitches that pop up from time to time in SAS or M&M have largely been dealt with here, either through refinement of the rules themselves or advice and guidelines on how to use them.

 

Support. As others on this thread have pointed out, the available support materials for Champions exceed almost any other superhero game, and certainly the more recent ones. Besides the published paper books and e-books there are a ton of free downloads here on the company website, numerous fan-generated sites, and a large, creative and helpful online community. In fact you can post a question on the "HERO System Fifth Edition Rules Questions" board and get a response from Steve Long, the Line Developer and author of the 5th Edition rulebook, usually within less than a day of posting. Most of the other creative folks working for Hero Games regularly peruse these boards and are readily accessible.

 

Ultimately, of course, you'll have to decide if this system works for you, as is your right. It might help you to look at a few of the information sources about the game available here. For starters, I'd suggest clicking on the "FAQs" link at the top of this page, and then on "General Questions" and "Reasoning from Effects" to get a feel for how the system approaches certain issues.

 

After that I'd proceed to the "Free Stuff" link also up top. "HERO System Documents" will take you to a page where you can download free PDF files giving a general introduction to the basic principles of the HERO System, a summary of the universe and timeline into which all official HERO game settings are placed, and a useful document discussing how to simulate numerous genres with this system, with sample characters, equipment, spells etc.

 

Also under "Free Stuff" you'll find "HERO Fifth Edition Documents," where you can download sample pages of the Fifth Edition rulebook itself and see how the material is presented.

 

Above all else, if you have questions put 'em up here! These boards are full of people eager to demonstrate how much we know.

[zornwil]

There was a big thread on this that discusses it ad nauseum - it's a lot to go through and like so many threads it denigrates after a while, but anyway, it is useful.

 

It is http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53&highlight=Mutants+and+Masterminds