Weapon Shattering Shield

[TranquiloUno]

How would you build a spell that creates a damage shield that shatters weapons?

Or if not damage shield an alternative method.

 

What limitation would you set for a linked Force Field\Armor that only protects against weapons hitting the shield spell? For fun let's say that it doesn't work against ranged\thrown weapons as they still impart their kinetic energy in to the target even while shattered. Never mind the slight logical inconsistency there, it's magic!

 

Damage Shield, only vs Foci, linked FF with "only vs weapons what shatter"?

 

How would you price it?

 

 

Edited September 10, 2018 by TranquiloUno

[TranquiloUno]

Too late to edit, but I was meaning a SPELL shield rather than a physical one.

 

Although...if anybody wants to suggest a physical shield build that does the same thing that would be fine too.

 

Maybe "only activates if the DCV bonus of the shield is what makes the hit a miss"? or something?

[Tom Cowan]

have you read AoE damage shield from the rule book?

place a attack with limitation that only vs foci on a disspell/HtH KA or what ever damage shield linked to a Force Field

 

I have 6th with me but 5th... hmm

[TranquiloUno]

What pages is that on? I don't see it under AoE, Damage Shield, or the range\targeting section.

 

How does it work and how would you use it to build the effect?

[archer]

I'd be reluctant to let a "destroys weapons" damage shield be part of my game because most humanoid fighters are rubbish without their weapons. Not to mention that destroying a sword in a second that it takes a week to forge seems a little over-powered and could tilt an economy out of whack if it happens very often. A fighter couldn't earn enough in a week by hiring himself out as a guard to be able to buy a replacement sword if mages had access to magic that destroys swords by using a bit of END.

 

And what's the fighter supposed to do when his sword is destroyed? The force field means the mage didn't take significant damage from the first attack and now the fighter's sword is gone. His dagger is going to do even less damage. And if the sword doesn't get through the force field, punching the mage isn't going to do much either.

 

Anyway, killing attack with damage shield would be the way to go to build it, I think. If I allowed it at all, it'd be only in the direction the caster is facing, only for attacks that he's aware of, can't be used as part of a grab maneuver, and would make the mage pay full END cost (rather than allowing END Battery, charges, or buying Reduced END Cost with the power). Using it would need to seriously limit mage's ability or the player will run the shield 24 hours a day.

 

I'd recommend also that the shield only work against non-magical weapons. Any spell that's strong enough to shatter steel every time is going to shatter WAY too many magical swords.

[TranquiloUno]

3 minutes ago, archer said:

I'd be reluctant to let a "destroys weapons" damage shield be part of my game because most humanoid fighters are rubbish without their weapons. Not to mention that destroying a sword in a second that it takes a week to forge seems a little over-powered and could tilt an economy out of whack if it happens very often. 

 

Anyway, killing attack with damage shield would be the way to go to build it, I think. If I allowed it at all, it'd be only in the direction the caster is facing, only for attacks that he's aware of, can't be used as part of a grab maneuver, and would make the mage pay full END cost (rather than allowing END Battery, charges, or buying Reduced END Cost with the power). Using it would need to seriously limit mage's ability or the player will run the shield 24 hours a day. 

 

I'd recommend also that the shield only work against non-magical weapons. Any spell that's strong enough to shatter steel every time is going to shatter WAY too many magical swords.

 

Oh, sure, I'm less concerned about how it might effect the game and more interested in how to build it. Specifically how folks would price the limitions, "Only against Foci" and "Only works against weapons that are shattered by the damage shield".

 

Damage Shield itself (in 5r) says it can do damage to Foci that strike it, at the GMs option. So that implies to me that nothing special needs to be done to the DS itself (nothing additional needs to be bought to make it work against foci).

But "only works against" foci does seem like a Limitation? And if a DS is intended to damage folks then...is that half it's effectiveness? More?

 

 

Oh, sure, they'd pay END and all that. Normal spell stuff. If I was giving it to a PC I'd probably pile on Concentration throughout and a few others, maybe up the END cost.

 

Yes, non-magical\special only (I'd probably let non-magical supermetals (Orchalcum, Adamantine, Questionite, etc) resist it as well).

 

 

 

 

[archer]

3 minutes ago, TranquiloUno said:

 

Oh, sure, I'm less concerned about how it might effect the game and more interested in how to build it. Specifically how folks would price the limitions, "Only against Foci" and "Only works against weapons that are shattered by the damage shield".

 

Damage Shield itself (in 5r) says it can do damage to Foci that strike it, at the GMs option. So that implies to me that nothing special needs to be done to the DS itself (nothing additional needs to be bought to make it work against foci).

But "only works against" foci does seem like a Limitation? And if a DS is intended to damage folks then...is that half it's effectiveness? More?

 

 

Oh, sure, they'd pay END and all that. Normal spell stuff. If I was giving it to a PC I'd probably pile on Concentration throughout and a few others, maybe up the END cost.

 

Yes, non-magical\special only (I'd probably let non-magical supermetals (Orchalcum, Adamantine, Questionite, etc) resist it as well).

 

 

I'm no expert but to give opinions...

 

If it's any help, I'd cost "Only against Foci" as a zero limitation in a fantasy game. Since the opponents are unlikely to have hand-to-hand combat superpowers as in Champions, everything except beasts will be attacking with foci when in hand-to-hand combat. But I'll admit I've never liked powers that are essentially "the power blows off all the opponent's clothing and armor and leaves him standing there naked and defenseless". This whole concept is just a variation on that but instead of standing there defenseless, he'd be standing there offenseless. If you are going to take out the character, kill him or fight him and force a surrender. Don't just humiliate him by having him stand there conscious but unable to do anything. YMMV

 

As for damage shields damaging foci automatically, as I understand it, they're supposed to work like that. But almost every character has shoes, socks, pants, belt, pouches, shirt, hat, armor of some sort, miscellaneous equipment of every sort, plus various weapons. It's a real pain in the butt for the GM to decide what actually gets toasted and which items survive(the GM at that point in the story might not even have worked out what the guy has on him, much less figure out what might have survived). So I've seen those effects of the damage shield ignored as much as followed to the letter of the rules. And players usually don't complain because all of those miscellaneous items are the kind of things most players call "Loot" and it's not much fun when it gets destroyed (at least when I'm playing).

 

For the force field "Only works against weapons that are shattered by the damage shield". it depends on how likely the damage shield is to shatter commonly-used weapons. If the campaign has everyone able to afford and use steel swords and the damage shield shatters steel swords, that's not much of a limitation.

 

But if the damage shield will reliably shatter only wooden clubs and the shafts of spears while opponents are attacking you mostly with two-handed steel swords and giant mauls, that limitation would be highly limiting the power's usefulness.

[TranquiloUno]

37 minutes ago, archer said:

 

I'm no expert but to give opinions...

 

If it's any help, I'd cost "Only against Foci" as a zero limitation in a fantasy game. Since the opponents are unlikely to have hand-to-hand combat superpowers as in Champions, everything except beasts will be attacking with foci when in hand-to-hand combat. But I'll admit I've never liked powers that are essentially "the power blows off all the opponent's clothing and armor and leaves him standing there naked and defenseless". This whole concept is just a variation on that but instead of standing there defenseless, he'd be standing there offenseless. If you are going to take out the character, kill him or fight him and force a surrender. Don't just humiliate him by having him stand there conscious but unable to do anything. YMMV

 

As for damage shields damaging foci automatically, as I understand it, they're supposed to work like that. But almost every character has shoes, socks, pants, belt, pouches, shirt, hat, armor of some sort, miscellaneous equipment of every sort, plus various weapons. It's a real pain in the butt for the GM to decide what actually gets toasted and which items survive(the GM at that point in the story might not even have worked out what the guy has on him, much less figure out what might have survived). So I've seen those effects of the damage shield ignored as much as followed to the letter of the rules. And players usually don't complain because all of those miscellaneous items are the kind of things most players call "Loot" and it's not much fun when it gets destroyed (at least when I'm playing).

 

For the force field "Only works against weapons that are shattered by the damage shield". it depends on how likely the damage shield is to shatter commonly-used weapons. If the campaign has everyone able to afford and use steel swords and the damage shield shatters steel swords, that's not much of a limitation.

 

But if the damage shield will reliably shatter only wooden clubs and the shafts of spears while opponents are attacking you mostly with two-handed steel swords and giant mauls, that limitation would be highly limiting the power's usefulness.

 

Non-expert replies are fine. I'm not one either.

 

The only against Foci would prevent damaging the folks that attack you however. Which does seem to limit the DS. If the sword breaks and they can grab another one because they are still unharmed (just unarmed), or run, or switch to spells, or something else (punches even). But...yes, not much of a limitation.

I had considered writing it up as a Transform (weapons in to broken weapons) to increase the cost a bit.

 

Well...unless the pants, belt, and trousers are doing the attacking I think they'd be safe from the DS for the most part, but, yes, it's a standard optional rule that doesn't generally get applied. BUT, in this case, that's what I'm wanting to apply, so it not normally being applied isn't an issue to me. Plus this is at least partly a "How would you build it?" question and not so much a "Should I build this and give it to PCs or will that create issues at some point?" thread.

I do think it would create an interesting potential encounter for the PCs tho if it was an NPC who had the ShatterShield up. So there's that.   Like a Rust Monster kinda...

 

Excellent point about the applicability of the limitation being dependent on what they'll probs be attacked with and how effective the DS itself is!

 

 

 

 

[Ninja-Bear]

When a weapon shatters rukeswise, there is no secondary attack so you don’t need to buy a separate mechanical build for that. I would put it in the fluff. As for the actual weapon breaking spell,  I would check the focui breaking rules.  If you’re worried about having instant weapon breaks, I would keep the RKA fairly low.

[TranquiloUno]

15 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

When a weapon shatters rukeswise, there is no secondary attack so you don’t need to buy a separate mechanical build for that. I would put it in the fluff. As for the actual weapon breaking spell,  I would check the focui breaking rules.  If you’re worried about having instant weapon breaks, I would keep the RKA fairly low.

 

The Foci breaking rules produce different values than the charts in Fantasy Hero 5th. But I think either version should be workable.  Thanks!

[Ninja-Bear]

Also if your concerned about being over powered,  Yiu can limit the power by having a high END cost, or Charges, maybe a custom limit where once it breaks a wrap o it quits working.

[TranquiloUno]

A 2d DS hits 75 AP pretty quickly. Outside the AP guides for the game. So not much worry there. PCs won't have it unless I want them too.

 

I was more interested in how folks would price the Limitations for "only to shatter weapons" and "only protects against weapons that shatter" or if there was another more clever way to build it besides 

 

I like your point about there being no secondary attack if the shatter works, but...is that true?

 

Does the Foci produce the effect then take damage? Or take damage first before it can take effect and so potentially get destroyed prior to doing damage?

 

 

[Ninja-Bear]

18 hours ago, TranquiloUno said:

A 2d DS hits 75 AP pretty quickly. Outside the AP guides for the game. So not much worry there. PCs won't have it unless I want them too.

 

I was more interested in how folks would price the Limitations for "only to shatter weapons" and "only protects against weapons that shatter" or if there was another more clever way to build it besides 

 

I like your point about there being no secondary attack if the shatter works, but...is that true?

 

Does the Foci produce the effect then take damage? Or take damage first before it can take effect and so potentially get destroyed prior to doing damage?

 

 

Ok I think I understand now. I was talking about damage from a weapon shattering not a weapon still hitting the caster. So yeah, you should have a shield to protect you from the weapon too.

[TranquiloUno]

Oh, I see! Well that's an interesting mechanic too I suppose!

 

But, yah, DS that only blows up weapons what attack it, and a linked FF that only works when the weapon shatters.

 

The DS only against weapons seems like a -1/4 to me since it's most likely a non-melee character spell. Meaning they wouldn't be seeing much defensive damage from the DS on the reg.

But I could see it being -1/2 too.

 

For the FF limitation...trickier since it'll depend on the average weapon durability and the DS damage. But assuming a 1 1/2d KA and using the Fantasy Hero weapon stats it looks like about 2-3 strikes until a weapon breaks.

So probably -3/4 or -1/2 given it gives no protection until then, and doesn't work against ranged weapons.

[Tom Cowan]

as you said -3/4 or -1/2 or at least link to the DS (no boom no shield)

[Killer Shrike]

You might consider a triggered effect instead of Damage Shield.