Building a Possession Power

[PamelaIsley]

I want to build a Shadow being as a villain's servant whose primary power is the ability to posses others, using the Possession Power in 6E APG1, but merging her form with theirs (her body disappears, which I would argue is the more common interpretation of Possession).  I'd also love it if the possession power gradually consumed / aged the victim's body so the Shadow kept having to jump around to new bodies (this plays into her backstory a little bit that she enjoys having a physical form even at the expense of destroying it), but let's just start with a basic possession power.

 

This power is in the 6E bestiary a few times:

 

94 points,  Possession: Possession (Mind Control EGO +60, Telepathy EGO +40), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½); No Range (-½), Unified Power (-¼) plus Desolidification, Projection (+0), Merging (+0), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½); Feedback From Host Body (-1), Linked (-½), Unified Power (-¼);

 

This feels like a good start.  But there are some issues with it.  First, if the being doing the possession is already inherently Desolidified, do you need the linked Desolidification power or do you just need these weird 0 point advantages Projection and Merging?

 

Second, I can't build this power in Hero Designer at all.  No matter how I enter the numbers, I can't get this cost.  I also don't understand why Feedback From Host Body is a -1 limitation when that's already part of the basic Possession Power in APG.

 

What do people think?

[Doc Democracy]

This was never my favourite way of doing it.

 

My version is where the possessor has duplication.  The actual PC is one of the duplicates who has a transform power which is used to create the other duplicate.  When there are two duplicates, they can be combined, to produce a point limited version of the possessed person.

 

As such, possessing a more powerful person does not give full access to all their powers.  

[Christopher]

On 2/15/2019 at 6:32 PM, PamelaIsley said:

First, if the being doing the possession is already inherently Desolidified, do you need the linked Desolidification power or do you just need these weird 0 point advantages Projection and Merging? 

If the being is inherently Desolidified that means it has a Desolidification power. One with advatanges like "Inherent" and limitations like "Always on".

 

Indeed the "ghost thing" is even the example for the Inherent Advatantage:
" Persistent Powers that are Always On (see
6E1 367), or which in the GM’s judgment function in a similar fashion to being Always On, can
be made Inherent. An Inherent Power is one that
reflects a character’s natural state of being. For
example, ghosts are naturally intangible (Inherent
Desolidification), and many characters have
tails (Inherent Extra Limbs, the most common
example of an Inherent Power that’s not Always
On). Inherent Powers cannot be Drained or
“turned off ” — you can’t make a ghost solid by
using Drain Desolidification on him, for example.
They also can’t be improved or boosted through
Absorption, Aid, or the like. However, Transforms
and Powers Usable On Others can alter or remove
an Inherent Power." - 6E1 128

[PamelaIsley]

1 hour ago, Christopher said:

If the being is inherently Desolidified that means it has a Desolidification power. One with advatanges like "Inherent" and limitations like "Always on".

 

 

But that Desolidification power isn't linked with anything.  It doesn't need to possess someone to be desolidified.

 

There is a ghost in the Bestiary that has both the Possession Linked with Desolidification and then a separate Desolidification power.  So I guess that's how it is done.

 

It doesn't make sense to me to pay for the same power twice.

[Christopher]

42 minutes ago, PamelaIsley said:

But that Desolidification power isn't linked with anything.  It doesn't need to possess someone to be desolidified.

That is done by making it a one way link only (Posession is linked to Desolid, not the other way around).

And as it would be a inherent power, it would propably be a -0. The Ghost can not be forced to turn the power off with anything less then a Transform wich removes the power.

 

43 minutes ago, PamelaIsley said:

There is a ghost in the Bestiary that has both the Possession Linked with Desolidification and then a separate Desolidification power.  So I guess that's how it is done.

 

It doesn't make sense to me to pay for the same power twice.

You are right that it does not make sense to buy the same power twice.

And I asume that example is simply a mistake by the books writer. He propably had a Template or something for that Posession power (wich consists of Desolid+Posession) and did not realize the target already had Desolid.

[PamelaIsley]

This is what I've come up with for my possessing Shadow.  Honestly, I should have just treated this power like a plot device. 

 

Shadow Form Possession:  (Total: 245 Active Cost, 119 Real Cost) Shadow Form (Desolidification , Persistent (+1/4), Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (80 Active Points); Always On (-1/2), Unified Power (-1/4) (Real Cost: 46)) PLUS Shadow Possession (Possession (Mind Control Effect Roll 100; Telepathy Effect Roll 70), Merging (+0), Projection (+0), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (165 Active Points); Linked (Shadow Form; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -1/2), No Range (-1/2), Unified Power (-1/4) (Real Cost: 73))

[Christopher]

2 hours ago, PamelaIsley said:

Shadow Form Possession:  (Total: 245 Active Cost, 119 Real Cost) Shadow Form (Desolidification , Persistent (+1/4), Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (80 Active Points); Always On (-1/2), Unified Power (-1/4) (Real Cost: 46)) PLUS Shadow Possession (Possession (Mind Control Effect Roll 100; Telepathy Effect Roll 70), Merging (+0), Projection (+0), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (165 Active Points); Linked (Shadow Form; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -1/2), No Range (-1/2), Unified Power (-1/4) (Real Cost: 73)) 

There is one important rule for Limitations: "A Limitation that doesn’t limit the character isn’t worth any bonus!"

 

I would still say in this case, Linked is a -0.

Not only is there no downside (like Endurance cost) to keeping the Desolid on, there is actualy now way to turn it off (always on).

Normal "Always on" powers at least have the option of being drained or supressed. But inherent blocks that one angle as well.

 

2 hours ago, PamelaIsley said:

This is what I've come up with for my possessing Shadow.  Honestly, I should have just treated this power like a plot device. 

It can still be very usefull to have it statted out. You never know when a player will something unexpected, like trying to block it by giving Mental Defenses to all possible targets.

[PamelaIsley]

3 minutes ago, Christopher said:

There is one important rule for Limitations: "A Limitation that doesn’t limit the character isn’t worth any bonus!"

 

I would still say in this case, Linked is a -0.

 

You make a good point, but the Hero 6E Bestiary definitely says the Linked is worth -1/2.  That's the only way I was able to figure out how much the limitation is worth.

 

I don't really see how it's limiting either since the Ghost (in bestiary) is always desolidified.  I guess it's because they aren't always possessing someone? 

 

I'm really shocked that APG specifically mentions this use of Possession (ghost merging with someone) and does not help you build it at all.

[Sean Waters]

How about not bothering with the Desolidification and using Possession with Mind Transfer instead?  Build in a Side Effect (that causes the rapid aging) and they you don't need to bother about your own body.  The Shadow may have lost that long ago, or may have it locked up somewhere, but there is no real need for it to exist any more.  I mean, I almost certainly would not allow a PC to have this power, but for a NPC, why not?

 

I'm assuming here that Mind Transfer version does not have the limitations that normal Possession does, or how you would administer that if it did; which body no longer has recoveries?  Do you die if your first body dies or the last one you possessed or any of them?

 

I also do not really understand why it is a -1 limitation.  It sounds better than the base power, really, and even if it does have those limitations still in place, it is probably as good.

 

I hate and loathe the use of desolidification as suggested in the book.  Say the possessed body is very tough and falls off a building.  The desolid body inside either has to stop, which may well kill it, or keep going and lose contact with the possessed body, pass deep into the earth and possibly suffocate.  It makes no sense.  Ditto poison gas, vacuum, water, anything like that.  It does not give the desolid possessing body the abilities of the possessed body and you'd need to be invisible too or it would be obvious you were inside there unless you were exactly the same size (and even then it stretches credulity).

 

My preferred option in this sort of scenario is to use Mental Transform (to willing lackey) coupled with Clairsentience so you can see what the host body sees and Mind Link so you can hear what it hears and tell it what to do.  If you want your original body to vanish, EDM to 'The Mind Plane' and make the Clairsentience and Mind Link extradimensional.  That all seems far cleaner to me and does not require any weird rule interpretations and special cases.

 

 

[Christopher]

On 2/21/2019 at 11:40 PM, PamelaIsley said:

I'm really shocked that APG specifically mentions this use of Possession (ghost merging with someone) and does not help you build it at all.

I do not have the Bestiary, but I t hink Posession itself is only defined in APG I 74.

 

On 2/22/2019 at 1:18 AM, Sean Waters said:

I also do not really understand why it is a -1 limitation.  It sounds better than the base power, really, and even if it does have those limitations still in place, it is probably as good.

Mind Transfer is a -1, because the Victim takes control of your body.

Think "The Great Brain Robbery" from Justice League Unlimited.

 

Normal posession is more like the (poorly named) "Mind Transfer Jutsu" from Naruto.

[Sean Waters]

10 hours ago, Christopher said:

Mind Transfer is a -1, because the Victim takes control of your body.

Think "The Great Brain Robbery" from Justice League Unlimited.

 

Normal posession is more like the (poorly named) "Mind Transfer Jutsu" from Naruto.

 

I'm still not clear whether the Mind Hop is still subject to the problems that normal Possession is subject to - specifically the link to the original body and what happens if that is damaged.

 

In any event, even is that is a problem, you can imagine the scenario:

 

She walked in to the room and was startled to see me handcuffed to a chair.  Her confusion only lasted a moment though before it doubled and doubled again as her perspective shifted dizzily and she saw herself standing  in front of her and she was handcuffed to the chair, only she was not herself any more.

 

Also, I'm not sure if Mind Hopping gives you access to the subjects memories.  Hmm.  It does not say that it does not so maybe it does, but does that mean that the person you are possessing gets your memories?  That would be an issue

 

You could always buy it with the 'No memories' limitation and rule that neither party gets memories.

 

Fascinating...

[PamelaIsley]

On 2/25/2019 at 12:51 PM, Sean Waters said:

 

I'm still not clear whether the Mind Hop is still subject to the problems that normal Possession is subject to - specifically the link to the original body and what happens if that is damaged.

 

In any event, even is that is a problem, you can imagine the scenario:

 

She walked in to the room and was startled to see me handcuffed to a chair.  Her confusion only lasted a moment though before it doubled and doubled again as her perspective shifted dizzily and she saw herself standing  in front of her and she was handcuffed to the chair, only she was not herself any more.

 

Also, I'm not sure if Mind Hopping gives you access to the subjects memories.  Hmm.  It does not say that it does not so maybe it does, but does that mean that the person you are possessing gets your memories?  That would be an issue

 

You could always buy it with the 'No memories' limitation and rule that neither party gets memories.

 

Fascinating...

Possession does give you access to their memories.  That's the purpose of the Telepathy points spent on the power.

 

The feedback from original body is another limitation that you can put on possession (see the power writeup in the first post). 

 

Switching minds is a specifically discussed type of possession. 

 

Possession is a very awesome thematic power (underused in Champions adventures I think).  It's also very complicated.  PCs should never have it, but in the hands of villains and monsters, it's quite cool. 

 

I'm pushing ahead with my Shadow, using the possession power I statted out a few posts ago.  I'm not going to implement the Drain Body or whatever, because I want the effects to be too gradual to matter mechanically.  But I will come up with some reason she can't possess Superman and just stay in the body forever.

[Amorkca]

5 hours ago, PamelaIsley said:

 

I'm pushing ahead with my Shadow, using the possession power I statted out a few posts ago.  I'm not going to implement the Drain Body or whatever, because I want the effects to be too gradual to matter mechanically.  But I will come up with some reason she can't possess Superman and just stay in the body forever.

 

What if over time, the shadow's possession causes feedback (ie: damage) to the Villain; that would be a good reason not to stay with one body for too long.

[Christopher]

On 2/27/2019 at 5:13 PM, PamelaIsley said:

(underused in Champions adventures I think).  It's also very complicated. 

Despite being in different sentences, those two are very related