Interchange power?

[Braum]

I'm trying to build an "Interchange" power . . .

 

It would be used to simulate a character swapping places with his alter ego; something along the lines of Rick Jones trading places with Captain(s) Marvel in the Negative Dimension. Unlike a standard Transformation, both beings continue to exist (in separate dimensions), and have free will and the ability to interact with their environment. If they bought a Psychic Bond, they would even be able to communicate with one another.

 

This could lead to some interesting RP . . . dual, simultaneous adventures in different dimensions for example.

 

What would be the best direction to take in building this power?

[Steve Long]

Since this is a "how to" and not a rules question, I've moved it so others can participate in the discussion. What do you think, Herodom Assembled?

[farik]

Duplication always on no recombining the mind link would of course need to be extra dimensional

 

Each form should take EDM with side effect always occurs (EDM other self) with this write up on both forms then either one can try to flee the scene but they're really just forcing the other one to take their place.

[Braum]

Sorry about posting in the wrong spot.

. . . That's what happens when you spend more hours looking at a monitor than sleeping.

 

Duplication seems like it might be workable. I had messed with modified versions of Summon and EDM but they didn't quite fill the bill. The biggest stumbling block I keep running into is making the ability (or possibly curse, depending on your point of view) affordable for both the linked characters.

 

Usually, this type of linking seems to involve someone who may, at best, be a Competent Normal character who is linked to someone who may well reach Cosmically Powerful level. Having a Captain Marvel (possibly a 700+character) cough up the Character Points to buy EDM, Summon, and/or Duplication so he can bring a Rick Jones (maybe 100 point range) is a snap . . .

 

Figuring out how your 100 pointer can work this in reverse is a real problem.

 

Duplication also adds the question, which character is the "original character?"

 

It would also seem that the traditional comic genre setup for this situation involves a mere human being linked to a Superhuman. If you strictly adhere to the rules, that would seem to make the cheaper normal the "original character."

If our normal weighs in at 100 points, and his alter-ego a whopping 600 . . .

he would have to pay a 500 point penalty in addition to the normal costs of the power. 100 - 500 = just don't work.

[Lightray]

Why aren't you considering Multiform? It's made for just such characters -- different personalities, different powers, different point totals.

 

If the one "here" can communicate with the one "elsewhere", then that may just be a special effect. Or you could take a power on both characters to reflect the advice they can get (e.g., Overall skill levels or Luck).

[Braum]

Multiform seems to me to be about one being altering his/her form, abilities, personality, etc.. . .as in the werewolf example. It also ties any damage taken to all forms of the character.

 

Also, I don't think it addresses the ability of the individual forms to interact with their environments simultaneously. For example, Captain Marvel battling the evil Nitro here on Earth while Rick Jones tries to evade the diabolical denizens of the negative dimension.

 

I'm shooting for a power that truly addresses the fact that these are two unique individuals, with their own minds and bodies, who have been somehow linked together.

 

With the proper use of limitations and a little imagination, there is even the possibility for a rare adventure where they can actually wind up in the same place at once or loose the link and have to find a way to reestablish it.

[badger3k]

I don't see a need to use duplication. The character isn't duplicated either - since they're two separate beings they should start that way. I'd use the EDM and Mind Link (ExDim only) that both can buy. Give one to control the edxim movement (the rick jones character, with focus if you want), and the other has it as no conscious control. You can add side effect that EDM swaps places, or limit EDM as "only to swap with X". Just GM the point bases of the two characters as appropriate.

 

I'd have the characters earn xp separately too. If you do use the duplication, the original character in game terms does not mean the original character in the story. Mar-Vell would be the base/original character, even though Rick should be. To balance things for other players, though, you might have to limit the changes/have uncontrolled (time duration), or something similar.

 

Multiform doesn't do it right either, IMO.

[Braum]

That sounds like a pretty good approach to me, badger3k.

 

EDM was how I initially tried to build it . . .

 

First time, I made both buy EDM and did my best to whittle the cost through limitations.

 

Then I worked with different ways of combining the character's points, then applying the various adjustments and having them split the final cost 50/50.

 

I also did a similar work-up using Summon instead of EDM.

 

Neither approach seemed to really work well.

 

I had planned on having them each earn XP separately. For the specific application of this power that I have in mind, I added an Endurance Reserve with the limited recovery (only from mystic power source) and slow recovery limitations, just to avoid the potential for abuse of the power . . .

and to lower the cost of course.

[badger3k]

cost?

 

Given the GM blessing, you can probably buy the EDM as 20 points, with the single location being where the other party is. Or add +5 for any point in the dimension. Shouldn't be that expensive, since nobody else moves. Limit it to CapMs, you have focus (OIF) - or restrainable/gestures, only to swap places with other party - hmm, that might not be a limitation or an advantage, since it may or may not be either, depending on the situation.

 

Still, shouldn't cost too much. Or am I missing something?

[Braum]

Actually, I think that it may have just gotten too costly in the EDM version because I tried to add too many bells and whistles to it.

 

I know I did the 2x normal human mass adder to simulate moving both characters. I gave each of them the power, thus allowing either to initiate the interchange. I even tried one version of the power with one buying the power and granting it to the second via "useable by other" advantage . . . but then you have to do a workaround for the LOS rule, and add Transdimensional, etc.

 

I think I will start over with EDM and try to keep it more streamlined.

[altamaros]

Re: Interchange power?

 

Originally posted by Braum

What would be the best direction to take in building this power?

 

I would suggest you a variant of Lightray' suggestion with Multiform.

 

Let's take the concept :

 

"Jones Ricks" (form A) can multiform into "Captain Wonderful" (form .

and then give Jones Ricks

1) a interdimensional psychic bond w/"Captain Wonderful astral form" (mind link w/on spirit, transdimensional, bond; only with other w/mind link) something like 10 pts IIRC.

 

2) a follower : "Captain Wonderful spirit form" :designed as a computer/spirit(A.I.) based on Captain Wonderful's mental stats, skills and psy. lims (no perks, no physical stats, no powers but mental) and say the follower is only existing in the negative zone.

 

As for form B, Captain Wonderful, give him

1) a interdimensional psychic bond w/"Jones Ricks' astral form" (mind link w/on spirit, transdimensional, bond; only with other w/mind link) again.

2) a follower : "Jones Ricks' spirit form" :designed as a computer/spirit(A.I.) based on Jones Ricks' mental stats, skills and psy. lims

 

this way, each form is actually "swapped" to the state of extradimensional follower at each multiform.

 

This is the simplest way i can think of to design this power even through Duplication (Altered duplicate, cannot recombine) would be better.(each duplicate w/psychic bond and a triggered limited EDM)

[Killer Shrike]

Identical Duplicates that cant recombine w/ each other, and each Duplicate has Multiform (or OIHID) w/ Normal dude and Powered dude. Put an Accidental Change Dis (Always Occurs) Form A to Form B when Duplicate goes Form B to Form A.

 

When Dupe A changes to Form A, Dupe B changes to Form B, and when Dupe B changes to Form A, Dupe A changes to Form B.

 

Also give each form a Physical Lim: Cannot Leave Dimension X/Y or Cannot Co-Exist In Same Dimension, or however you want to handle them not being in the same dimension.

 

Both dupes have Mind link to their off counterpart in the other form (Dupe A form A is ML to Dupe B form B and Dupe A form B is ML to Dupe B form A) and thus can communicate.

 

Give each form a Physical Lim: Unaware Of Other Multiform (worth 0 to 5 points, your spin -- its totally meta-game and flavor based so Id go 0 personally), so that the characters Dupes only know about the other Duplicate, but does not realize that in total there are actually 4 forms involved mechanically (2 Dupes, 2 Forms each) rather than 2.

[Lightray]

Yeesh! So complicated!

 

If the point of the character is that A and B are always in separate environments -- then they are NOT interacting.

 

Other than a few campaign powers, mostly Movement Powers, Hero's power effects affect combat. If character A cannot affect a combat that character B is in (in any meaningful way), then using Duplication is overkill.

 

Although the Follower + Multiform suggestion is clever, the benefit of a Follower is that you have someone else present with you or someone to go someplace while you are busy elsewhere. With A and B in two different environments that don't interact with each other, there's no benefit to taking either as a Follower -- what can that Follower do, since he's forever stuck someplace else.

 

Likewise, the Duplicates version -- Duplication essentially allows you to take multiple actions in the same combat. Your Duplicates can't interact in any meaningful way. That's a lot of points to spend for a power that's going to do nothing for your character other than add flavor.

 

The key here is to decide, exactly, what their ability to interact can do for A or B in the location where they are located at that time[/b].

 

The fact that you might have A doing one thing in one location while B is doing something in the other location is, really, a special effect. If you're getting some benefit from this -- knowledge, for example -- just buy that as another power.

 

Note: if I've misunderstood and the characters CAN interact and affect each other with powers, then Duplication + Extradimensional Movement would be the way to go.

[Braum]

Originally posted by Lightray

. . . If the point of the character is that A and B are always in separate environments -- then they are NOT interacting.

 

This is not the point of the character(s) that I'm currently attempting to depict through this power. The mild mannered normal half of the duo normally inhabits Earth and shares a physic bond with a powerful, extra-dimensional being. When the need to "get heroic" arises, our normal uses his focus to swap with the hero whose normal habitat is on the Astral plain. Each can interact telepathically with the other, and it is possible for them to exist in the same dimension at the same time . . . they would just need to find another way to get there.

 

 

Originally posted by Lightray

Note: if I've misunderstood and the characters CAN interact and affect each other with powers, then Duplication + Extradimensional Movement would be the way to go.

 

OK, here is my most recent version of the power . . .

 

INTERCHANGE

 

Extra-Dimensional Movement: (20)

 

Adders

 

Increased weight: 2x normal human mass. (+5)

. . . Because whichever member of the duo is using their copy of INTERCHANGE is moving both of them.

 

Transport to any location in any dimension: (+20)

 

BASE COST = (45)

 

Advantages

 

Uncontrolled: (+1/2)

 

Affects desolidified: (+1/4) . . . the heroic half of the interchange in my current application of the power has Desolidification so this seemed like an advantage worth investing in.

 

Difficult to dispel: (+1\4) . . . this also seems like a worthwhile investment.

 

END only to activate: (+1\4) . . . if this advantage is allowed by the GM, this seems to be the usual value listed.

 

ACTIVE COST = (101)

 

Limitations

 

Multiple foci: (OIF) (-1/2) . . . each character has an unbreakable, personal OIF.

In my current application of the power, a third, "target point" (IIF/immobile/durable) must also be in good working order for the power to work.

 

Gestures: One-handed gesture required to activate power (-1/4)

 

Limited power:Only to switch with one specific character who is picked at time of purchase (-1/4 to -2)

 

. . . In my current application of the power, I also added a.) either character or interchange partner must be on the Astral plain, b.) the being traveling to the Astral plain always arrives at the "target point," and c.) always fails if both beings are on the Astral plain simultaneously. I gave this combination a total value of (-1)

 

REAL COST = (37)

 

The psychic link will be bought as a version of limited Telepathy.

 

I also plan on having each half of the duo to also take a percentage of any damage the other takes from certain mental and/or an EGO attack, so . . .

The characters CAN interact and affect each other with powers."

[Fireg0lem]

Originally posted by Braum

The psychic link will be bought as a version of limited Telepathy.

Try Mind Link instead; it has an option for exactly this.

[TaxiMan]

Put me firmly on the side of multiform. If you, the player, want to control two different characters, one at a time, it's multiform. If you want to control two characters at the same time, it's duplication.

 

All this EDM stuff is like designing rope using Hero rules. Waaaaayyyy overkill. Still, this is my opinion - if you're having fun and others playing with you are also, game on!

[Braum]

Sorry, that's what I meant.

 

The Psychic bond described in Mind Link . . .

 

with a few limitations based on the character contept.

[Braum]

INTERCHANGE Version1.1

 

I noticed a couple problems with my earier power structure so here is a revised version . . .

 

INTERCHANGE

 

Extra-Dimensional Movement: (20)

 

Adders

 

Increased weight: 2x normal human mass. (+5)

. . . Because whichever member of the duo is using their copy of INTERCHANGE is moving both of them.

 

Transport to any location in any dimension: (+20)

 

BASE COST = (45)

 

Advantages

 

Uncontrolled: (+1/2) *DELETED* . . . upon reflection, I believe END only to activate makes this an INSTANT power and therefore removes the need for this advantage

 

Affects desolidified: (+1/4) . . . the heroic half of the interchange in my current application of the power has Desolidification so this seemed like an advantage worth investing in.

 

Difficult to dispel: (+1\4) . . . this also seems like a worthwhile investment. . . . I left this for the moment, but I don't believe an INSTANT power can be affected by Dispel either, can it?

 

END only to activate: (+1\4) . . . if this advantage is allowed by the GM, this seems to be the usual value listed.

 

ACTIVE COST = (79)

 

Limitations

 

Multiple foci: (OIF) (-1/2) . . . each character has an unbreakable, personal OIF.

In my current application of the power, a third, "target point" (IIF/immobile/durable) must also be in good working order for the power to work.

 

Gestures: One-handed gesture required to activate power (-1/4)

 

Limited power:Only to switch with one specific character who is picked at time of purchase (-1/4 to -2)

 

. . . In my current application of the power, I also added a.) either character or interchange partner must be on the Astral plain, b.) the being traveling to the Astral plain always arrives at the "target point," and c.) always fails if both beings are on the Astral plain simultaneously. I gave this combination a total value of (-1)

. . . I'm toying with the idea of either adding the Usable on others advantage for +1\4, dealing with the "swap" as a -0 side effect (it could either be an advantage or limitation), or leaving it as is; due to having already making that part of the -1 limitation and also paying the +5 adder for the limited mass.

REAL COST = (29)