Panpiper

Re: Ranged attacks while engaged in melee

Re: Ranged attacks while engaged in melee I have many years of martial arts training. I also spent seven years in the SCA, training and fighting twice a week (ours was an unusual bunch) in armor and doing melee combat. I've also participated in a few archery events, though I am far from an accomplished archer. To me the idea that an archer could stand there six feet in front of me and try to fire arrows at me while I am swinging a sword at them is absolutely absurd. They could be a perfect meld of Robin Hood and Miyamoto Musashi and they would get killed 100% of the time, guaranteed. The only way they could survive wold be to stop trying to fire the bow and instead wield it as a stick (whereupon if I were fighting Miyamoto Musashi, I would stand no chance). I don't care what the rule book might say. Having archers in melee at only half DCV 'and (my GM rule) half OCV, is being 'extremely' generous to the archers.

Re: Traveler's Purse - Magic Item Whew, where to start. I have an extensive background in economics and really could could write a book on fantasy economics. I will seriously consider writing an article at least, but I'll post that to another thread if I do. A single Traveler's Purse such as this would have virtually zero effect on any appreciably sized economy. If it were a small isolated village cut off for the winter, it could certainly have an inflationary effect on the local economy of the village, with prices slowly going up for everyone (including the purse holder). However as soon as the pass cleared, most everyone in the village (who did any sort of regular buying and wage earning anyway) would suddenly find themselves with a lot of cash to spend outside the village where prices would be much lower. As that extra cash got spent, local prices would quickly drop and all would be again normal. If a great many such purses were to exist in an economy, they could conceivably have an inflationary effect, pushing up prices. How fast would depend on how big the economy was, as well as other factors, like if the economy is shrinking or growing, how much mining of monetary metals is going on, etc. If the economy was growing at a healthy clip and mining activity was no more than normal, one could conceivably have a good many such purses in existence and have no inflationary effect. Regardless however, mere expansion of the money supply at the bottom of the production pyramid (technically pure consumption) would have no other effect on an economy other than a general rise in prices, it could not precipitate a collapse. Fiscal destablization needs to happen at the top of the production pyramid in order to cause economic destabilizations. The simple presence of such purses would be unlikely to destabilise or collapse an economy. To actually collapse an economy through fiscal means (an economy can collapse due to predation of war, disease or famine) requires that the economy be acted upon through a significant 'external' force, meaning something that is not a normal part of simple markets. A simple market economy, without such external factors, will naturally adjust to changing conditions and not collapse. A fiscal collapse could be caused in a fantasy economy if for instance the ruler were to decide to go to a paper currency, confiscate the metal currency (likely giving paper in exchange), and then proceed to pay all the ruler's debts by issuing however much 'extra' paper he felt like spending. This could cause a hyper inflation and even if the ruler restrained himself, could easily precipitate boom bust cycles such as we see in our modern paper currency economy, if the quantity of paper money expanded faster than the economy grew.

Re: Traveler's Purse - Magic Item Yes. I repped Blue Jogger for his reply, but I should say so more publicly. That was precisely what I needed.

I'm whipping up a small castle/tower, built as a base, and just want to be sure I am remembering things right. In the latest rule book I see nothing that would permit me to do what I am doing here with followers, but I am quite certain I learned this from Hero at some point way back. I bought followers to guard the castle. The primary defense of this castle is actually a few magical gargoyles. But I also want some more normal characters, a few human guards, servants, etc.. I seem to recall that we were allowed to reduce the value of one or more of the full point followers, doubling the numbers of the ones reduced for every 25 AP reduction of the follower. My castle looks right now like: 30pts +10pd/ed 20pts +20 body 20pts Size 10pts Labs, etc. 70pts Followers 20pts (for 8 followers) x 50pts (250 point characters) 7 x 250pt Gargoyles Take 1 Gargoyle and split it into 2 x 225 point followers. 1 x 225pt Old Wizard 1 becomes an old wizard and the other gets split into 8 x 150 point followers. 7 x 150pt 4 x Gate Guards, Seneshal, Butler & Blacksmith 7 are used as such and the other 1 gets split again into: 16 x 50pt Servants & Staff Am I remembering this right? 150 point 'base' costing a character 30 points.

Re: I heart language charts That's a good idea Blue Jogger.

Traveler's Purse - Magic Item 3 Real Points - Wealth 5 AP , IIF +1/4, Only gives a maximum daily allowance +1/4 Assume that 3 silver pieces is enough to get you a small, lockable private room at a decent inn (2 SP if you're willing to slum it), with three meals, three drinks, and stabling for a horse. How many silvers will such a Traveler's Purse generate daily?

Re: Bag of Holding

I want for my archer character to be able to make placed shots with his longbow, at least while out of combat, without incurring penalty. So I buy four Offensive Combat Penalty Levels for my Heavy Longbow for 4 points to counter penalties for Placed Shots. (Right, that would be 4 points for it working with a single weapon?) However I also want for my character to be able to fire into a melee without hitting the good guys. As I understand it the 'Behind Cover' rules are to be used for this along with Hit Location to determine penalties to hit and if the attack misses by the amount of the penalty, the attack strikes the cover, in the case of melee, one of the other melee participants. Now it seems clear to me that Offensive Combat Penalty Levels bought to counter penalties imposed by placed shots would also be applicable here, thereby removing the penalty (to the extent of the levels). Aught I assume however that if such a bowman misses anyway, despite all their levels, the same rules would always apply towards possibly hitting a 'good guy'?

Re: Ranged attacks while engaged in melee I think Steve Long missed the boat on this one. The OP is not so much asking about modifiers firing into a general melee, for which there are clear rules as Steve mentioned, but rather what the rules state for someone firing a bow at someone who is swinging "at them" as they are firing. I've repeated this in many posts, but I should do it again for this one. I've been away from the game for fifteen years, am several editions out of date, and have only just begun reading 6th Ed haphazardly. So my interpretation is not quite rules lawyerish as it is more GM ruling. A person firing a bow is at half DCV. A person firing a bow, a muscle powered ranged weapon, at an adjacent target that is engaged in melee with them, is going to be at half OCV as well. But I cannot point you to page numbers that would stipulate printed rules.

Re: Certain Followers Bought with Limitations? Well, that's a GM call I suppose. Personally I am not happy with the idea that all my players, for the simple expedient of spending cash, can gain an extra 8D6 normal attack three times a turn, in 25-33% of encounters. That costs points. Otherwise they can ride regular horses. For a character conception that 'requires' a warhorse but did not pay points for it, I would allow a horse that did not bolt from combat, but it might well die easily out from under the character and it certainly won't be kicking.

Re: Alas, no more Independent! Do you require them at that point to pay full points for the item if they wish to 'bind' to it? Do they get to decide what powers it has? And do they decide that, or learn that before they spend the points? And how much does it cost to make my sword glow? ;-)

Re: Bag of Holding Bag of Holding. Holds 16 non-living objects of any size that will fit through the bag's opening. No appreciable weight. Extra-dimensional movement 20AP +½ 0 Endurance Cost +¼ Grantor can give power to one Recipient +1 16 X Recipients +½ more Advantage Grantor controls the power totally 70 Active Points -½ less Advantage Grantor can only grant the power to others -¼ less Advantage Grantor must grant power to multiple Recipients one Recipient at a time Gestures -1/4 OAF -1 Limited (only for non-living objects that fit through the bag's opening, placed in OAF -2) 13 Real Points 6th Ed.

Re: Certain Followers Bought with Limitations? No, not a standard riding horse. But a horse that won't panic and run if it gets hit by an arrow, a horse that will stand in the thick of battle and fight back, yes.

Followers are quite a bit more expensive now. If I want for my 150 point character to have a 150 follower, my character has to become a 120 point character (in effect) so as to pay for that 150 point follower. Now this may well be appropriate if I have a mage character and want a powerful pet to be my meat shield wherever I go. However there are many times where this cost is entirely out of proportion to the utility of the follower. For instance, what if I want my warrior-knight character to have a warhorse? A warhorse cannot help a character in a bar fight, or anywhere in the city for that matter. It won't help inside of buildings or during the proverbial dungeon crawls. In fact even out in the open where the warhorse could be present and ridden, all it can really do is make the character faster, allow him to lance charge (once) and add a 'normal' hoof attack to melee. It cannot contribute skills or assist in any way aside from that extra attack. Note that the above example meat shield for the mage character can go everywhere and hit things with a great axe, everywhere the character goes. So my question is this, would it not be reasonable to allow a limitation on the follower cost in certain situations for certain followers? Would it be reasonable to allow the purchase of a warhorse with a limitation "Only usable in exterior, open areas -2". bringing the price of said horse down from 30 points, to a more appropriate (in my mind) 10 points?

Re: Alas, no more Independent! The players manage to foil the evil cult's 'boss' just as he is doing a dastardly ritual that will drain the beautiful love interest of one of the players and several of her friends. The innocents have been saved, but the ritual triggers anyway and drains the whole life from the evil mage and channels it into this absolutely magnificent looking bastard sword. A fitting end for such an evil. Inevitably of course, one of the players will grasp that amazing looking sword. And the sword grabs him! He is unable to let go of the sword! It is cursed! Just then several of the evil mage's henchmen rush in, not realizing their master has already perished and a fight happens. The player who has grasped the sword has no choice but to use the sword in combat, and discovers two things, it is a tremendously powerful magical sword, slaying opponents with a single strike, and every time it slays an opponent, it gets ever so slightly stronger, the player can feel it swallowing souls, just like the evil mage was doing. Worse however, every time the player slays an opponent with the sword, the sword drains a character point from the player as well! The group must find a way to free the player from the sword. Ultimately they must embark on a quest to destroy the sword, before it grows so powerful that it destroys the player's character. They can only hope that when the sword is finally destroyed, that the souls it has stolen, as well as the life force it has drained from the player's character, will be restored.

Re: Alas, no more Independent!

Re: Alas, no more Independent! I am standing by my theory of mages paying desperate people to come in and donate. The magical equivalent of homeless people donating blood. Of course if someone donates too often... I suppose that would be the old standby of a transform, likely an area effect to contain several homeless/poor people at once, to siphon the character points off, and put them onto an object such that the object could then 'spend them' with the help of the mage.

Re: Bloodmäter Thank you. I shall indeed.

Re: Alas, no more Independent! I have no idea why the independent limitation was removed. And I have no idea how to resolve the question of how do we now make magic items. Nor is it at all clear how if a magic sword bought by a player "without' an independent limitation, is stolen away by a goblin and carried off to a distant land, what that means for the character. So your question is a darn good one and I hope there are folks with more of a clue around. I have long conjectured that this would indeed be one of the ways particularly nasty and evil items get paid for. Or at least items created by particularly nasty mages, as the resulting items might in fact be quite neutral. I have also often thought that a nicer mage might offer to pay money to a large number of poor people to siphon off one point from each of them so as to create items. I suppose that is still a morally grey area, but it's a hell of a lot nicer than the mage who kills in order to steal that potential.

Re: Paying for Magic Items In the 12 odd years that I actively played Hero, mostly Fantasy, not once did any of my characters ever start with or find a magic item. In fact I cannot ever recall any player at all, in any game what so ever, during that entire time that ever had a single magic item. I expect that is primarily due to the troublesome nature of the question posed by the OP. The solution of our entire community was to simply avoid the existence of magic items altogether, period. I am about to start GMing a game again (for the first time in fifteen years and I feel like a newb). I am in the process of designing a world for my game. And what is one of the very first things I write? "Magic Items Are Rare." It would appear that at least subconsciously I intend to continue my habit of ignoring magic items completely. I fear though that that simply compounds the problem. Where if I ever 'did' allow a magic item to somehow wind up in the hands of the players, it would be such an unusual treasure that it's presence on a single player would cause that player to outshine the rest in what could be a big way. Now if that player were to pay character points for that magic item, it would not be an issue, there would be no outshining. But I loath the idea (thinking like a player) of a GM handing me a magic item and then telling me I have to pay points for it. I likely had other plans for those points! No character would voluntarily 'throw away' a decent magic item, just because their 'player' wants to buy something else with their XP. I am very much persuaded that the only right way to handle it is for it to be free. That is the nature of the (now non-existent) independent limitation I suppose. And yes that does mean that it can be lost. The outshining of the player possessing the incredibly rare magic item however now presents an even greater problem. Without that player paying points for it, the only way to resolve the outshining problem is to see to it that somehow, each of the players has the chance to have a similarly cool item. Meaning magic items cannot be 'that' rare. If I allow one, I must allow many. The very first game I ever GMed thirty years ago was an AD&D (1st Ed.) game, I knew not what I was doing, and it turned into a major Monty-Haul. I still don't know what I am doing.

Re: Natural Toughness ability, how to balance... Assume we have a character that has purchased 6 PD/6 ED of "Hard-bitten" and 6 PD/6 ED of "Heroic Toughness". Very much enjoying the idea of being impossible to kill, they also wear full plate for an additional 8 PD/8 ED. Feeling understandably invulnerable, they saunter up to the war troll, bravely accepting the first swing of the troll. The troll lands a hit, rolling a decent damage roll on four dice of 16 damage. 8 points are removed by the plate, leaving 8 more to resolve. Next up is the "Heroic Toughness" which stops half the damage up to the maximum of the "Heroic Toughness". Well, half of 8 is 4 (which is less than the 6 this "Heroic Toughness" can absorb) and so four get through. That's it, the player takes 4 body. The "Hard-Bitten" never comes into play. Stun for the attack was a multiple of 3 doing 48 stun. Regular PD (assume 8), Armor and "Hard-Bitten" all apply their defense against the stun, so remove 22 points from the stun damage, leaving 26. The "Heroic Toughness" only removes as much stun as it stopped body, in this case 4, so a total of 22 stun is inflicted on the character. The character is stunned. The troll takes a second swing at the half DCV character trying to recover from his overconfidence. Maybe critical hits are in effect in this game, maybe the troll landed a good hit location, but the troll manages to do 24 damage. 8 points are removed by the plate, leaving 16 more to resolve. Next up is the heroic toughness which stops half the damage up to the maximum of the "Heroic Toughness". It can only stop 6, 6 body gets inflicted leaving 4 more to be resolved on the "Hard-Bitten". 1 body automatically gets through, then the "Hard-Bitten" kicks in to stop the last 3 body cold, bouncing off the bones perhaps. The hit has done a total of 7 body damage. Stun is 72 points minus all the defenses because all of the "Heroic Toughness" applies (it stopped it's maximum potential body) so 28 points are stopped, with 44 being inflicted. Ok, so that was perhaps academic. Now, I want to resolve the exact same combat, except switch the order of resolution, where "Hard-Bitten" is resolved before "Heroic Toughness". The troll does 16 body worth of damage. 8 points are removed by the plate, leaving 8 more to resolve. Next up is the "Hard-Bitten" which lets 1 body through and then stops 6 points, leaving only a single point to be resolved. The "Heroic Toughness" stops half the body, rounding in favor of the character and so stops the last point. The character takes all of 1 body of damage. The stun doing 48 points, regular PD (of 8), Armor and "Hard-Bitten" all apply their defense against the stun, so remove 22 points from the stun damage, leaving 26. The "Heroic Toughness" only removes as much stun as it stopped body, in this case 1, so a total of 25 stun is inflicted on the character. Note this is 3 points more stun inflicted than the previous time. The character is again stunned. The troll takes the second swing and does 24 damage. 8 points are removed by the plate, leaving 16 more to resolve. Next up is the "Hard-Bitten" which lets one body through and then stops another 6, leaving 9 to resolve. Half of that, rounding in favor of the character; 5 body, is stopped by the "Heroic Toughness" so 4 body gets through, totaling 5 body inflicted. Stun of 72 points is removed by the full regular PD (of 8), Armor and "Hard-Bitten" for a total of 22, leaving 50. "Heroic Toughness" only removes as much stun as it stopped body, in this case 5 leaving 45 stun to be inflicted. So in the first examples where "Hard-Bitten" was resolved last, we had armor stopping damage, then a significant amount of damage being inflicted with the last bits bouncing off of 'something'. Conceptually I find this unsatisfying. Moreover the attacks did more body and less stun. Rather the opposite of what I would prefer. I want my players to go down easier but die harder. In the second example where "Heroic Toughness" was resolved last, we had the character having damage being stopped by armor cold, then a small amount of damage being inflicted (1 point squeaking past "Hard-Bitten" any time the armor was penetrated) before another large chunk of damage was stopped, till finally it reached the squishy center where it did whatever damage it could with what was left. Conceptually this is more satisfying to me than armored bones. It also had the effect of doing less body damage and more stun damage, exactly what I want in my game. I want for my characters to go down more easily but be more survivable, as long as it doesn't turn into a total party kill. All this long winded diatribe is to illustrate Killer Shrike, that despite the awe in which I hold your mastery of the game, I believe yours is the wrong call in the order of resolution. I believe the "Hard-Bitten" should be resolved before the "Heroic Toughness". And clearly, I need to get a life.

Re: Why are Limited Defenses so costly? My goodness Hierax. I am quite impressed with your handle on the mathematics of the mechanics.

Re: Bloodmäter Our thanks to your player. You are giving me the idea of offering extra XP to players who write stories about their characters, the group's adventures, and extra tidbits such as this. Already the idea of offering a few XP for a proper character background is a sound one, used by many. But I think it might be quite appropriate to grant an additional XP (or more?) for a regular chapter in the experience of their character.

Re: Natural Toughness ability, how to balance... I really liked your "Hard-bitten" Heroic Knack when I read it on your web site a few weeks ago, as I was gearing back into Hero. In fact I included it on a few character designs I was playing with at the time, so much did I like it. I must have missed the full import of it however as I never realized that you had meant for it to be purchasable in greater amounts than the writeup. "Hard-bitten" Real Cost: 4, Active Points: 6 Description: Hard-bitten represents an "only a Flesh Wound" effect rather than the "just missed me" effect of Combat Luck. The character doesn't need to be aware of an attack and can benefit from it even if they put themselves in danger, but this ability does not work vs. the first point of BODY and STUN damage of an attack (other defenses can cover this damage however). Effect: Hard-bitten 2 PD/2 ED (Defined as: Armor [2 PD / 2 ED], Does Not Protect Vs. The First Point Of Body Or STUN From Each Separate Increment Of Damage Taken [-1/2]) I really liked the idea of that first bit of body getting through as one typically sees in painting, the "Hard-bitten" warrior standing amidst the bodies of his fallen foes, with many bleeding cuts on his body, but clearly intact. It very well simulated that effect. In fact it was your idea that led me to "Heroic Toughness". I wanted for characters to be able to get injured, but I did not want for them to be overly vulnerable to one hit kills. I wanted something that would stack with regular defenses, yet mitigate the effect of really powerful hits without reducing overly the ability for stun damage to take them out of the fight. I find the two together work nicely, giving players the option of regularly getting scratched up, but 'only' scratched for 4 pts per 2 PD/2 ED, taking one body per hit using hard-bitten, or for 3 pts per 2 PD/2 ED it only stopping half the body per hit. Points wise it makes sense. The interesting call is how to stack the two? Technically the "Heroic Toughness" would stop the first body from any attack due to rounding in the character's favor, while "Hard-bitten" would let the first body through. I would probably adjudicate that mere scratches are stopped, that in the case of the two knacks being stacked, it is the second body that gets through the "Hard-bitten", not the first. And then there is the question of, what do you do with someone who had bought a couple of levels of both these abilities, who then puts on a suit of armor? Do we adjudicate that the regular armor defense comes off the damage first, then the second point that made it through the armor defense gets inflicted, and finally half of whatever remains after the "Hard-bitten" defense, is reduced by the "Heroic Toughness" up to the maximum amount purchased? That's how I would do it, if I allowed "Hard-Bitten" to stack with armor.