Steve

Re: Setting Concept: The Power of Lineage With lineage-based abilitites then various forms of eugenics does come into consideration. This is how inbreeding creeps into the descendents of bloodlines, if they only breed with others of noble bloodlines. Imagine a setting where inbreeding is controlled or eliminated by a magical crystal able to discern the best possible mates for a given scion of a line, complete with priests who enforce such matings take place. Yes, the nobility have great political and personal power, but children are created through carefully cultivated breedings and not love.

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System Pretty much. I think INT/5 is a decent benchmark to use, since it gives a modest advantage to brighter spellcasters. Priestly magic might use a different characteristic, such as EGO/5. Yes, any tiers 3 or more below the highest would be +3/4 as well. I was calculating the value of the naked Advantage itself, so a +1/4 Advantage on a 60 point power is 15 points. It's simply an add-on at that point, and it can have its own Limitations. Okay, if we build a spell with 1 Charge, it's a -2 Limitation. Let's take a simple build to work the numbers: a 45 Active Point spell with Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) and 1 Charge (-2) or -2 1/2 in Limitations. The Real Cost is then 13. If a spellcaster memorizes it four times, the RAW would change the Charges Limitation to a -1 instead of a -2. The Real Cost becomes 18, a difference of 5 points. It seems weird to me to have four memorizations of a single spell cost 52 (4*13) points instead of 18. It's cheaper in the RAW to memorize more castings of fewer spells than it would be to memorize one casting each of more spells. You could build into the VPP a maximum limit of how many castings of a single spell are allowed, I suppose. A spell could have less castings memorized, but it can't have more. Idea: A rookie spellcaster may have to build their VPP with the 1 Charge (-2) Limitation, but that gets bought off as they get more experienced, maybe to a maximum of 8 Charges (-1/4) per spell.

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System You can use Delayed Effect and Charges on a single spell. The casting limit that is built into Delayed Effect speaks about all spells that the caster may have memorized. For example, assuming the maximum number of powers (spells) that can be delayed is 4 for the +1/4 version, then the character could memorize his Lightning Bolt once, a Fireball once, a Detect Magic once, and Invisibility once. He could also memorize his Lightning Bolt four times (which should change the Charges Limitation value). You might find it easier to work with the Active Points of spells if you build them without figuring in the Delayed Effect Advantage. Your example spell is not built with Delayed Effect, which would change the cost to 67 Active Points for the +1/4 version. By setting up Delayed Effect as a 'naked' Advantage outside the VPP, it could be a feature of your magic system. For example, assume the character has a 45 point VPP: +3/4 Delayed Effect on 15 Active Points of spells. Active Cost: 11 +1/2 Delayed Effect on 30 Active Points of spells. Active Cost: 15 points. +1/4 Delayed Effect on 45 Active Points of spells. Active Cost: 11 points. Now, as the character gets more powerful, a 60 point VPP, these Advantages can scale up: +3/4 Delayed Effect on 30 Active Points of spells. Active Cost: 22 +1/2 Delayed Effect on 45 Active Points of spells. Active Cost: 22 points. +1/4 Delayed Effect on 60 Active Points of spells. Active Cost: 15 points. These Advantages could be Limited by whatever you feel appropriate for your magic system, but it might be best to just make them 'freebie' Advantages on your magic system. A 30 point spell is then based on Advantages other than Delayed Effect. It's simply an assumed feature of the magic system. There are some things that might work best if you make them a feature of your magic system, and not require a spellcaster to pay for them. Plus it makes the math a little easier. It can simply be assumed that Delayed Effect is built into each spell without changing the costs. Then as the VPP gets more powerful, it is assumed that a spellcaster can cast weaker spells more often. One rule of thumb I've found helpful is that if the PCs and NPCs are both running under the same magic system rules, it's by default fair.

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System The slotting limit only applies if you go the Delayed Effect route. Basically, the GM just needs to set a limit for how many powers may be delayed at once. The default limit is INT/5, but it could just be a flat number like 4, or even a total number of Active Points from all the powers delayed. For every extra +1/4 Advantage beyond the base +1/4 for Delayed Effect, that number is doubled. But that increased Advantage level must be taken on all powers that use Delayed Effect (like spells). However, the GM can also create a higher number of "preparations" as opposed to "releases". This gives spellcasters some flexibility, like your desire to have clerics able to swap a heal spell for another one. Say the cleric only has one release allowed per day. He can prepare both a heal and another spell, but when it comes time to release, he has to choose what he is releasing through his one available release per day.

Re: "Mostly Harmless" powers

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System Well, the caps are built into the spell structure and the magic system. The END Reserve is sort of a side issue, since it only needs to cover the END for the spells set up using Delayed Effect. If there is extra END left over, then it just sits there. One thing I would propose is a standard Limitation that would cover the preparation of spells, like studying a spellbook or prayers to a deity. It would use Concentration and Extra Time, and they could just be called Spell Preparation. Then the actual release of the spell would have any other Limitations the spell requires. This might also include Concentration and Extra Time, which seems to make sense for more difficult spells, but I am not sure of the legality of having Extra Time twice on a power.

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System That's what I read in 5ER when I was reviewing the Advantage last night. It makes a sort of sense, since you are effectively "charging" up the spell at the time of preparation, then you do such things like your Activation Rolls and targeting rolls at the time of release. However, it also makes sense in thinking about preparation vs. release as discussed in Fantasy Hero to say that the END is spent on release, since a caster may prepare more spells than he can actually release using the Delayed Effect construct method. A suggested method is twice the number of spells may be prepared than can actually be released. If that is how magic is being done, then it makes sense that END is spent on release only, since otherwise you are making a spellcaster pay END on a spell he is then never able to release.

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System Delayed Effect at its basic +1/4 level limits the numbers of castings allowed, not necessarily preparations. Fantasy Hero discusses allowing a spellcaster to prepare more spells than they can actually cast. This would allow you to model the notion of a cleric substituting a healing spell for one of their other spells cast per day. It is bought as part of each spell in your list, not a naked Advantage. However, every spell must have the higher form of Delayed Effect to increase the numbers of castings. As a spellcaster goes up in power, you can add points to each spell to show they can cast it more often, starting at Delayed Effect +1/4 then going to +1/2 or maybe even +3/4, but I suggest maxing there. Assuming INT/5 castings allowed, this means a wizard can unload 4 times that amount of spells per day (assuming all his spells are built with Delayed Effect +3/4), so if a wizard has INT 25 they can cast 20 times a day. It works a bit like Charges. Well, the spell would look like any other power write-up from the books. The difference lies in you defining for your game world what Limitations are Preparation Limitations and what ones are Release Limitations. As an example, you could make it a standard thing that the Preparation Limitations are Concentration and Extra Time, maybe a Focus as well (spellbook). Any other Limitations represent the Release Limitations. A case could also be made that spells requiring material components could also take a second Focus Limitation, only as part of the Release Limitations.

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System Some more thoughts on my Delayed Effects comments: 1) Fantasy Hero also discusses the notion of Casting Slots versus Prepared Slots. To allow a spellcaster more flexibility who is using Delayed Effect to model their spells, they may be able to prepare twice the number of spells that they can actually cast. Delayed Effect basically models how many releases of spells they can do, but they can prepare twice that many spells (or more, depending on GM's desires). This gives a spellcaster a bit more flexibility. 2) Using Concentration and Extra Time as preparation Limitations and then Gestures, Incantations, maybe RSR and/or a Focus as release Limitations probably models the spellcasting effects of D&D-ish style magic spells best.

Re: "Mostly Harmless" powers Hmm, how about Ranged Touch with Invisible Power Effects? For an even more amusing power, link it with TK with a very small amount of STR.

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System A couple of things to note about the Delayed Effect Advantage: 1) The base version is +1/4 Advantage, and that lets you ready/stack a certain number of spells beforehand (suggested limits are INT/5, a total amount of Active Points, or a number like 6). For very +1/4 Advantage beyond that, the limit doubles. So a +3/4 Delayed Effect on a spell would let you store 4 times whatever the base limit is, or say 24 of them if the starting limit is 6 for the +1/4 version in that world. 2) END is used at the time of preparation, not the time of release, and so are any Limitations like RSR or Gestures. When the power is released, then you are free to target it and make attack rolls. You are at full DCV and the release takes a half-phase action. I suppose you could add additional Limitations upon the time of release. Restrainable seems like a good one to use, to show that the spellcaster needs his hands free.

Re: Setting Concept: The Power of Lineage I would suggest looking at the D&D setting Birthright for ideas. You can find a lot by googling.

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System Yes, assuming no Limitations on the VPP itself (a straight plain vanilla construction), for every 2 points you add to the pool it costs 1 more point on the control cost side. To go from a 30 point VPP (costing 45 points total) to a 40 point VPP (costing 60 points total), you add 10 points to the pool itself and 5 points to the control cost. When you have Limitations on the control cost (Gestures, Incantations, etc) that changes the numbers a bit. With -1/2 in Limitations on the control cost, those 10 points in the pool add 3 Real Points to the control cost. However, this added complexity is part of the reason why I feel a spell pool Talent is kind of cool, since it simplifies the math for newbie players: no control cost is involved at all. You want a 30 point spell pool, it costs 30 points. You want a 52 point pool, it costs 52 points. But it otherwise works like a VPP as Chris demonstrated in his sample build. You use up the points with the spells you slot into it (which can be built using Charges to show the number of times that spell can be used that day). What is also cool is that you can take that same game mechanic construct and use it different ways to show different things. A Wizard's version of the Talent (which can be called Wizardry) requires all spells to be memmed from a spellbook, all powers to be built with RSR, etc. However, a Sorcerer's version of the same Talent (call it Sorcery) would have different requirements on any spells taken through it. Maybe a Sorcerer doesn't need to worry about RSR, so their spells are a little more costly and take up a little more of the Sorcery pool than a Wizard's spells take of the Wizardry pool. A Cleric could have a Talent as well (call it Divine Magic), but the spells slotted into this Talent requires all spells to be built "Subject to god's purposes" or the like. If a character desires to have multiple magics available, such as Clerical magic and Sorcery, it's as simple as taking two separate Talent pools. For example, a character could have a 20-point Divine Magic Talent and a 10-point Sorcery Talent. You can also subdivide magic into different categories to show a character who is more specialized. In Fantasy Hero there is a sample magic system which uses Talents (called Arcana) for Elementalism, Necromancy, etc., instead of a single Talent for Magic. You can figure the Real Cost of a spell by means of normal Advantages and Limitations, then use that point cost to see how much of the Talent's pool points are used up, or go an additional step and divide it by whatever number you choose to use as a cost divider. The higher the divider number (which is suggested to max at 5), the cheaper and more plentiful magic becomes. I know I'm pretty much rehashing things I've said in prior posts, but I think this method makes for a reasonably clean way to do magic as far as what it costs the player in terms of points spent on the character sheet.

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System Okay, here goes. In the RAW, a VPP is a pool of points that can be reallocated for different things, and it costs the points in the pool (Pool Points) + the control cost. For example, a 30 point VPP costs 30 points plus 15 for the control cost. You can limit the control cost, but not the pool cost, such as requiring anything done through the pool to have Gestures and Incantations. That would drop the control cost from 15 to 10 (due to a total of -1/2 in Limitations). However, in the RAW, the biggest spell done through the VPP can only have 30 Active Points. KS's method alters that, allowing more Active Points through the VPP. In Fantasy Hero a spell pool Talent is offered as a suggested alternate way to do something like a VPP, only the points in the Talent do not limit the maximum Active Points allowed. So, for example, a wizard has a 20 point spell pool Talent (call it Arcana or whatever). The Talent costs them 20 points, nothing more, but it also can't be limited in any way. It's purely a pool of points that can be used for spells. Our intrepid wizard then looks over his spellbook. Each spell in his spellbook can be written to cost END (which would then require an END Reserve or the expenditure of personal END to cast spells) or they can be built as Charges. A spell written with Gestures, Incantations, an OIF material component of some kind, and 1 Charge is (I believe) a total of -3 in Limitations. If you do it without Charge as a Limitation, it is only -1. If all the wizard's spells have that -3 in Limitations, he can then have one spell of 80 Active Points or multiple spells which total 80 Active Points, but 20 Real Points. If you go the non-Charges way, the maximum drops to 40 Active Points and 20 Real Points. Those Real Points are what uses up the points in the spell pool Talent. Using Charges, a wizard could memorize the spell multiple times (say 4 Charges instead of 1), and that would simply change the Real Cost of that spell and use up more of the spell pool Talent's 20 points. If you go with each spell costing END from a Reserve, the Real Cost would never change, and the wizard would simply allocate more of his END Reserve to cover multiple castings instead. Now, you can also combine the idea of a cost divider (ie each spell takes it's Real Cost after all Advantages and Limitations are calculated and then dividing it by 2, 3, or whatever) and a spell Talent. This allows more spells for the example wizard to use his 20 point spell pool Talent towards. Does that make better sense now? A spell pool Talent is not in the RAW, but it follows the same logic that the Talents in the book use for their write-ups. It is like a VPP, but it allows more flexibility for a Heroic-level spellcaster, built on a smaller budget of points than a Superhero would use.

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System Thia, I've been thinking over some suggestions for your magic system. Please forgive me if I am rehashing old terrain. 1) One of the most basic decisions to make is whether you are going to have spells purchased and paid for individually by characters, or if you are going to go with some sort of power framework to do this, presumably one that will let you swap out spells like a VPP or a VPP-like Talent (explained later). The spells themselves will be recorded off the sheet, so to speak. To purchase each spell individually, you write up the spell as a Power with Advantages and Limitations, and then you can make the PC pay that cost, or take an additional math step and use a cost divider to get to the cost for the character: 1/2, 1/3, etc. By using Delayed Effect and Trigger in the spell's build, you can charge the spell for release at the beginning of the day. You can then choose one of two ways to provide the power: Charges (1 or more, each one representing a casting of the spell and would be part of the Limitations affecting the cost of the spell) or an END Reserve (which I suppose you could pre-assign 1 or more castings worth of END to each spell, but it is an unorthodox approach). You can also purchase each spell as a type of Skill Roll: Fireball 13-, Detect Magic 12-, etc. The costs to the player will be similar to the method just above. The spells are written up off the character sheet, and the caster's success at casting them is determined by rolling the Skill Roll for the known spell, modified by the Active Points of the spell writeup or as an unmodified roll. You can purchase a pool of points that can be assigned to spells, which is then allocated at the beginning of the day (or whenever the caster changes his spell list). The straight rules would be to do this by a type of VPP, but you are limited by the RAW to a maximum Active Points in a spell of the pool points in the VPP. By building each spell as a 1 Charge slot in the VPP, it reduces the amount of points it takes from the pool. If you desire to cast the spell more than once, simply change to 2 or more Charges and recalculate how many points memorizing it would take from the pool. An alternative to a VPP is a spell Talent (which works like a VPP in that it is a floating pool of points). This can be as simple as a single pool (Magic) or several pools that are limited to certain schools (a pool for Divination Magic and a separate one for Elemental Magic, for example). By using a cost divider (as mentioned above), it extends the pool points a bit. Each pool of points could run off a single Magic skill, or they could have a corresponding skill (ie a Necromantic Talent for the spell points and a Necromantic Magic skill roll). You can power the spells by means of an END Reserve as well, and pre-assign 1 or more castings worth of END to a spell. 2) Once you have made the choice of purchased spells or a floating pool that can be changed, then the choice is magic as a learned skill or a type of superpower. By choosing magic as a skill, one that can be learned like baking, then there is a chance for a skill failure. Spells would be written up with RSR. BY choosing the superpower route, magic is an inherent gift. Clerical magic could be written up this way, and instead of RSR, a cleric could have a Limitation on their magic like "Limited by god's purposes"

Re: Quote of the Week from my gaming group... A d20 reference? For shame. You should be expressing it in Hero power terms. Something like Image, but I'm not sure how you would write it up since it it is created by words sent over the Internet.

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System Another way to approach the VPP option is to use something like a VPP but isn't. Fantasy Hero introduced the concept of buying a Talent that works like a VPP, but it reflects a pool of points that can be allocated to cover the Real Cost of a spell. One of the example systems came up with the notion of Arcana, which reminds me of how D&D does the various schools of magic: Divination, Evocation, etc. What spells the character knows are reflected off the sheet in a separate list of spell write-ups. So say a character only wants to learn Divination magic, then buying a full blown VPP is a bit of overkill. Instead, they have a Talent called Divination which represents their ability to wield spells of the Divination school. That Talent could represent the pure real cost of spells, or the cost with a spell divisor figured in (such as all spells costing a character 1/3 or 1/5 what they cost under standard rules). All the spells normally have Requires A Skill Roll to work. Wizards can purchase all the Arcana spheres they want to learn spells in. Sorcerers may be more limited (max 4 Arcana, their INT/5 or whatever limit you choose). However, the tradeoff that Sorcerers get is that they can purchase a separate Talent (perhaps once for each Arcana) that 'buys off' the Requires A Skill Roll Limitation instead of being able to purchase more Arcana. Wizards have more breadth, but Sorcerers are more focused and don't have to worry about their spells fizzling from a failed skill roll. Wizards could also have the requirement that they have to memorize (and thus allocate) their arcana pools to show what they know for that day. Sorcerers can wield their smaller spell lists in whatever way they like, since they wield magic by sheer force of will, not learning them from books. Clerics could be somewhere in between. Combine that with an END Reserve to show how much mana (or whatever you choose to call the energy that powers magic spells) a spellcaster can channel in a given day, and you have a spellcaster ready to face the world. END Reserves can also have fun Limitations built into them to reflect the spellcasting philosophy. An example would be a Cleric that can only use the REC on their END Reserve by praying (and making Faith skill rolls). A wizard could simply require a spellbook and some reading time (a Focus requirement). A sorcerer could rip the power from their environment by sheer force of will and save it for later use (Requires an EGO-Roll).

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System I agree with KS on this. Forget about the rules for a few minutes and figure out what feel you are going for. Then once you have that mental framework in mind, take a look at the Hero System main book (with Fantasy Hero adding more options to your tookit) and see how you can use them to make magic work as you want it to work. I would suggest posting that list to this thread or making a new thread for it, maybe broken down by spellcaster types, and then ask for commentary on how to accomplish it. Don't do it with an eye on rules, just go for a general description of effect. Then it's just a matter of reasoning backwards from effect to get a system that works within Hero.

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System Well, one thing you can try to show this would be to require Wizard spells to have a Requires Skill Roll Limitation in addition to all others, but Sorcerers don't have this Limitation. It makes their spells a little more expensive. You could also employ different magic systems for each caster type. Maybe Wizards use individual spells bought by a spell skill system (see Fantasy Hero pg 261), and Sorcerers use something like the Chaos Blades idea (Fantasy Hero pg 262). There is no requirement that every type of caster use the exact same system, unless you prefer uniformity. You can do arcane magic and faith-based magic by as simple a change as the name of the skill roll required: "Faith" instead of magic. I really think you're trying to drag too many of D&D's metagaming concepts into Hero, but it's your campaign. It can really be satisifying to strike out and craft your own magic system for your world from the ground up.

Re: [Character] White Phoenix - Ninja Hero/Teen Champions I was wondering when you'd notice this thread. I was actually thinking about doing a thread on the Other Genres board to populate the King of the Streetfighting Warriors world after I get done with some other projects I'm working on. Another option I was thinking about with the original version of White Phoenix was to give her the ability to Summon other characters from the Streetfighting Warriors universe and call it something like Here Comes A New Challenger. By giving it an Activation Roll and a Side Effect, I could have Friendly characters show up when the roll succeeds, but fail the roll and the character that showed up would be an Antagonistic one, and would want to fight Qi Yin instead.