radioKAOS

Re: Liefeld's Titans Are you trying to imply that Larsen's start at DC was resposible for him being able to turn out a comic on time, and that people who start at Marvel can't 'hit a release schedule to save their life'? That's just silly. McFarlane got his start at Marvel and is one of, if not THE hardest working comic artist ever.

Re: Liefeld's Titans lol, and here I though ole Jugs had gained a new superpower... Grow Teeth at an Unbelievable Rate: 6pts Shape Shift (Sight Group), Instant Change, Makeover (20 Active Points); Only to grow extra teeth in certain poses when drawn by Liefield [Power loses almost all of its effectiveness (-2)], Affects Body Only (-1/2) END 2 Of course just being in that book gives everyone this: 25pts Drawn by Liefield: Physical Limitation: (All the Time, Fully Impairing) and 1pt Drawn by Liefield: Stretching 1", Only to stay 'out of proportion' Power loses less than a fourth of its effectiveness (+0) (5 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), no Noncombat Stretching (-1/4) END 1 not to mention 3 Drawn by Liefield: +10 STR (10 Active Points); Only to hold weapons in ridiculous poses [Power loses about two-thirds of its effectiveness (-1 1/2)], No Figured Characteristics (-1/2) END 1 and of course 8 Drawn by Liefield: +10 DEX (30 Active Points); Only to hold ridiculous poses [Power loses almost all of its effectiveness (-2)], No Figured Characteristics (-1/2) this is too much fun...

Re: XP idea This reminds me of a player we had for a while, back in our Palladium days [we were young and lived across from Detroit in Windsor Ont, and knew people who had been on the playtesting team, etc etc... ]. He would roll 5 or 6 d20s at the same time, saying he preferred the feeling of more dice in his hand... uh huh. Funny part was, whenever we made sure to make him pick a die beforehand [he said he always picked them beforehand, just didn't tell us which one...] - he would roll a 20 to hit... that guy rolled more 20's than anyone I've ever seen. Anyhow, on the HERO issue, I disagree. I like to see characters progress rapidly, so long as those points have justification for the spending. I would give between 1 and 5 per session. Generally like this: Mission Failed = 1pt. Mission Success = 2pts. Overwhelming Success = 3pts. Character well played/entertained the GM = 1pt. Role playing award [by open vote from all players] = 1pt. This kept everyone happy, along the lines of your 'giving the player a character he likes' idea. It encouraged good roleplaying and working together as a team.

Re: Skills I'm a little confused as to what you don't like about them Sean. The "Not that random" thought on something like Computer Repair really just equates to a mundane task for the skill user. Either you have the Skill and you can do it without a roll, or you don't have the skill, and well... good luck. I would say most people do not have a computer repair skill. These people probably have little to no clue as to where the power supply is, assuming that's the problem. Those who do have the skill can most likely change a power supply without blinking, and unless there were extenuating circumstances I would not require a skill roll for such. I think we solved that on other threads recently... As for the multiple skill rolls and skills using different CHA, I agree with it. It's one reason I liked the skill system in White Wolf, you could match up any CHA with any Skill and make a roll. Another thing I liked about that system was how easy it was to set difficulties and measure success. One thing I find lacking in HERO skills system is the "how well did I succeed" rule...

Re: incantation Who said the character was Human?

Re: Feints Seconded.

Re: incantation

Re: Disadvantage So then, what if a player wants no disads at all? Are XP rewards based solely on RPing your disads? How do we balance between those rewards, and the way XP is set up now? Do we require a certain amount of disads for each character?

Re: Disadvantage Oh yeah... I like this too. I may just use this for my new game. Can we get some suggestions as to what rewards the characters may get when they have faced and 'defeated' one of their disads in a game? Now, what if a character runs into, say 5 of his disads in one game? How do you reward that? Is it a 1 XP/disad faced in each game? Or only if the disad was successfully dealt with? [i remember in Rolemaster you also got XP for any critcals you took - from pain comes knowledge, interesting view I thought] Are some disads worth more than others in terms of rewards? Minor and Major? Who determines the severity, player of GM? At creation, or situationally? Rep'd by the way.

Re: #@&!% Distributors There seems to be a good amount of stores in teh Vancouver area that carry the full line of HERO stuff. My only problem was getting my hands on a copy of the 5ER. Good thing the Question Man knows the stores out here. I believe he called 14 stores before he found a copy for me... From what I hear the 5ER is out of stock? Seems to be the case, Vancouver are is dry save the one I just bought. And Presti, I refuse to have a cellphone as well. I used to dispatch trucks and then run a trucking company... I serviced Ford, Chrysler, GM for the last 6 years, and that cellphone was attached to my ear. I finally just broke down and got a pager, my Agent still wants me to get a cell, but there's no way.

Re: I don't quite grok the Multiform rules. Well, as expected, it cuts back on the amount of 'available points' to play with, but does have the advantage of being able to buy things for both 'forms' at the same time, reducing some costs in characteristics and skills. One thing that ends up happening is that you want to keep more things in 'both forms' than you might have had otherwise. Sleep comes now.

Re: I don't quite grok the Multiform rules. I think this has much potential for the 'single form' multiformer... I will play around with it wiht my current single form multiform character and see what's what.

Re: I don't quite grok the Multiform rules. I can see the point for sure, which is why I posted teh question in the first place, but what if there is a scenario where the secondary form should have access to a base that the base form doesn't? Say a Superman type was built with the existing multifom rules, using Clark as the 'base form' - Clark certainly doesn't have access to the 'Fortress of Solitude' - so should he have paid for it?

Re: I don't quite grok the Multiform rules. Yeah, I dislike the 1-25 advantage that it would give the base form, which is why I liked the "base form pays for it" rule from 4th Ed. But then all forms got to 'use it' for free, and that may not seem fair. Of course having each form pay the same 'usage' cost seems an almost silly way of balancing it... But what other option is there? I guess that's really what I was asking... "What other option is there?"

Re: I don't quite grok the Multiform rules. I'm with you on this, I think it may well have been thought out for 5 forms. It works perfectly at that amount. Perhaps then, is there some way to formulate it differently for the 'just one form' guys? Incidently, what do you make of the rule about other forms buying vehicles and bases? I think in 4th, the 'main' form paid for it, but all could use it. In 5th it seems that each form that wants to use it needs to pay. Does then the 10pts I've thrown into base from each form add up and allow me to have an extremely massive base for next to no points from my 'base form'?

Re: I don't quite grok the Multiform rules. Yeah, the concept has to work as well, and I don't think "my character can change into each of the hero archtypes" is a very good concept. It leaves the player as either a) best at everything or second best at everything. a) isn't any fun for anyone else, and isn't that great for the now 'supporting' character.

Re: I don't quite grok the Multiform rules. Well thanks. I neglected to mention that the 14 hours were on a movie set for the movie Dungeon Siege, based on the computer game. I am a legionnaire and as such, have to be fighting the evil Krugs. Interestingly enough I found a Krug to fight the other day who had also had some martial arts training, so we tested each other... and tested more, then gave it a little more, and more, and more... It was a great workout, great sparring [with full contact] though for the length of time we were at it, left me a little sore... coupled with the lack of sleep left me a little more than cranky.

Re: I don't quite grok the Multiform rules. I don't think they are gaining so much more from the same points. These points have to be used to upgrade both the base form and the secondary forms. Our hero should be able to advance in each of these forms in a manner equal to the other characters in the game. In order to facilitate that, we have the 1 per 5 rule which will allow our hero to keep his forms close to the rest of the troupe in terms of XP spent to advance their characters. Of course my ruling is that the maximum points any secondary form could have at any time would be base + XP earned. So if the Character earned 6 pts, he could put one point into MF to up it to 355 and spend the other 5pts on Banner's new skill levels. I would actually allow the MF to be worth 356pts, being that is the real XP total. Of course I'm probably not making any sense at all, being that I am delerious from lack of sleep. I leave you now until tomrrow night, as I have another long day at work tomorrow. Good night.

Re: I don't quite grok the Multiform rules. lol, wow, goes to show exactly how much of my posts you actually read... Seems you missed the part where I said "I've just gotten home from a long day at work and had less than 2 hours of sleep last night." A 'long day at work' for me means 14hrs+, so I haven't been here all day to respond.

Re: I don't quite grok the Multiform rules. So as to not limit HULK's smashing ability! [Gotta love Hulk logic] You see, 5th Ed takes away the rule [that we had in 4th Ed] that the highest point form has to pay the MF costs. This now allows Banner to pay for the Multiform costs instead of having HULK pay for them. I think this is a little unbalancing, considering the nature of how easily this power can be abused already. My suggestion is to have Banner [and only Banner] be restricted by the ruling that we used to follow for all of the Forms in 4th Ed. - "No form can be worth more than the base form [read: highest point total form] minus the costs for multiform." This allows for the best of both worlds, IMO.

Re: I don't quite grok the Multiform rules. Wow, do you not read? I said that BANNER pays the costs for the multiform, and that BANNER's max points would be equal to 1500 minus the multiform costs. Thus allowing the HULK to be the SAME AMOUNT of points as the other characters. Truthfully I have no more ideas on how to explain this to people. Please re-read my post and if you still can't understand it, send me a PM with your questions regarding it. If you are just joking around and throwing fuel on the fire for the sake of how silly this thread has become, I apologize for not seeing the humour as I've just gotten home from a long day at work and had less than 2 hours of sleep last night. Edit: Incidentally Bloodstone, Having the 'Highest Point Form' pay for the multiform is the way that 4th Ed does it. Using your example of a 1500pt Hulk... Hulk would pay 20pts for Banner, reducing him to 1480pts, and no other form could be more than 1480pts. Of course, that's just according to the rules.... What I was proposing was an intermediate between that and the 5th Ed Ruling that any form can pay the point cost for MF, and there is no restriction to the amount of points spent. Again, I don't know how else to say it, so I'll just stop typing about it at all, thank you very much.

Re: I don't quite grok the Multiform rules. I would rather 'unbalance' the game in favour of less points rather than more, considering MF is an easily abused power, and a huge advantage in it's own right. So assuming you understand that I will not allow players to use MF to create a character that is beyond campaign point limits, I then say this to you: I am giving the option of not having to have the highest point total character pay for the MF so that players are not penalized for using MF. It allows your highest point form to be worth the full value of the other characters, rather than being set back 70pts from the others... There is a lot I can do with 70pts, as I'm sure you can too. Sure, your less powerful form is being penalized, but now your 'Combat Form' is going to be worth exactly what everyone else is worth. And most likely your other form doesn't need to be made on any more than 210ish points anyhow. Back in 4th Ed [not sure if you ever played it, so I'll clarify] MF was restricted that way for ALL of your forms. No form could be worth more than the base form minus the costs for MF. Of course we're also talking 250pt characters back then as well. Agreed that point cost is just a guideline, and does not equal balance. Agreed that you can have characters of different point costs in the same group without unbalancing everything. But a 250pt difference sure as hell makes a difference... unless the 500pt character is built by a complete moron, he'll be much better than the 250pt characters, and rightfully so, he's built with twice the points. So while it's a beautiful ideal to think that a huge difference like that will not unbalance the game, it does. You think Robin's player didn't get pissed that Batman was far more useful than he was? I don't know about your troupe, but no one in my games likes to be a sidekick. Using your logic, a 350pt character should be able to fight Mechanon by himself without any balance issues... um, hello? What I can't figure out is this: if you believe that characters being 250pts apart is not an issue, why do you believe that my concept [with a 140pt difference at most] is a balance issue???

Re: I don't quite grok the Multiform rules. Ok, so after a shower and some more thought on the issue my point is really this: I really dislike the "highest point form does not have to pay for the MF costs" rule. I think having a MF in the first place is more than enough of an advantage, and having your highest point form pay the costs was a balancing factor. Get rid of that and it makes me less than a happy camper. My way around that is to make the form that is paying have a point cap.

Re: I don't quite grok the Multiform rules. Well firstly I don't agree with letting anyone create a 500pt form for a 350pt game. Even though "Points do not equal Balance" one must admit that alowing a 500pts form in a 350pt game has thrown balance straight out the window. I apologize if somehow my posts aren't making sense. They make sense to me in my own little world, and that's what really matters anyhow Secondly no, the 'other form' - in this case at 500pts, is worth the full 500pts, - it does not have to pay for the MF at all. The lower point total form could be no more than the 400pts you mention [highest point total form minus MF costs] and has to pay for the MF [100pts]. It effectively gives the 500pt form a bigger advantage [a 100pt advantage by not having to pay for the MF] over the other characters who are playing at 500pts [assuming a 500pt game]. So to clarify in a 350pt game: a) Base form "Doctor" is the primary form. He starts out as a 350pt character. Secondary form "SMASH" is built on 350pts. c) Player decides he wants SMASH to be the highest point total form [at 350]. Other forms [Doctor] cannot be more total points than the highest point total form minus the MF costs [70] per the rule from 4th Ed. d) Doctor can therefore be worth 280pts total. e) Player has Doctor [instead of SMASH] pay for SMASH Multiform costs, 70pts [assuming no lims] out of his 280pts, thus leaving him 210pts to spend on himself. This method does seem like a 'double taxation' when you first look at it, I can agree with you there. But the benefit you are getting is that your highest point form does not have to be the one paying for the multiform costs. This allows that form to be equal to the other 350pt characters in the game. Your other form, the Doctor, takes a hit, but conceptually speaking he's not usually going to be the one involved in the conflicts anyhow. I think this way of looking at it illustrates the weakling Doctor that becomes the Hulk very well. Now if you want another form somewhere along the line, it costs the Doctor 5 XP and the 3rd form can be the full base [350] + total XP gained by that time.

Re: I don't quite grok the Multiform rules. In 4th Ed, a character taking multiform had to pay for the MF with the highest point total form. No other form could be more than the point total minus "all the costs for Multiform." 5th Ed says we don't have to have the highest form pay for the mutliform.... this already seems an imbalance to me. now, instead of having two forms, none of which could total more than [point total - multiform costs], you can have a full 350pt form and another 'lesser' form at [350 - multiform cost]. It was a mechanic that wasn't broken, IMO, and they way it is changed reminds one of "RIFTS Book X: EVEN MORE POWERFUL POWER GODS TO PLAY IN A POWERFUL LAND FAR AWAY." To me, MF has a huge potential for abuse, and the way I balance things is that either: a) your highest point form pays for the multipower [and is therefore the 'base form'] and no other form can be built on more points than base form - MF costs. or your 'base form' doesn't have to be the highest point form, but that form still has to adhere to the 'max pts = highest point form - MF costs.' He then pays for the MF with the points he has left. It's no more 'double taxation' than it would be in 4th Ed, it just allows the option of having a different form pay for the MF costs and be the 'base form' - and allows the highest point form to get away with not having to pay for the MF, and not subject to the 'max points' rule. As for XP spending on MF, the highest point total any form can have should be "Starting value + XP earned" at any time. This maintains balance and does not allow for munchkin 700pts Hulks running around. As for "Glad I'm not at that table" - worry not, I wasn't about to invite you.