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Re: SHADOW WOLF: Just cant get him right (please help)

Some thoughts for Bear:

Extra Strength- say 10 points, maybe 15

2 KA- one reduced penetration (claws), the other armor piercing with no strength add (bite)

Safe Environment: Intense Cold

Definitely Simulate Death

Reduced eat/drink, linked to Simulate death

extra Pre, offensive only, incantations: roar

+5PD/+10 ED only vs cold based attacks plus make 3 of his PD resistant

+8m or more of extra running (bears are pretty fast!)

+ Perception rolls with smell, no track but maybe targeting or discriminatory

NND Hand Attack- yes, the bear hug!

Anything else I missed?

Re: Emotion-Based Powers

Yes, but you can't voluntarily roll to become enraged, can you? I am aware of those complications and i could see maybe an aid or boost to strength when a roll for either is failed- but to start using the enhanced strength I should think there might be another mechanic that could be used- maybe I'll just call it SFX for the power...

Re: Stats For Purifier

I thought that he was in the Mutant Files but I could be wrong- been known to happen.

The classic, is of course the Hulk with his "I get stronger as I get angrier" but I can think of other powers that might work in this way and was just wondering how others actually model the emotion component of the power- is it just a SFX for you or does the character need to make Ego rolls to "ramp-up" or maintain their emotional state over a period of time, etc.? Any ideas/suggestions would be appreciated, TIA.

Re: What Are You Listening To Right Now?

Tangled up in Blue- Bob Dylan on my iPod playlist...

Re: Destroy Your Geek Cred!!

Not really a cred destroyer but of all the people that I have known IRL who were fantasy fans, I was the only one of them that actually read the Elric books, as well as the Eternal Champion books, the Chronicles of Castle Brass, etc.

Re: 6th edition

 

 

 

I find your take on what are "fundamental" elements of the system to be... odd. Figureds, maybe. Maybe. But Comeliness? C'mon...

Hmmm, was part of the system from the very beginning, yeah- I must be insane to call it a fundamental game element...

Re: 6th edition

You don't even know what you're talking about. Only the 1-3rd editions were "done or implemented by those who actually CREATED the hero system." 4th Edition was primarily the work of Rob Bell (not one of the creators) and 5th edition was done by Steve Long (the same Steve Long you're apparently so sore at for 6th edition).

 

 

 

Well let's see- HMMM, BBB- hmm by George Macdonald, Steve Peterson, and Rob Bell, Edited by Rob Bell- so, I do know what I'm talking about, and you don't know how to read apparently- when I said IMPLEMENTED by the original creators- Steve Wrote the 5th edition but he was still doing under the former Hero Games ownership at the time, so they had final say on what was changed or included in that edition, not Steve. See, I can be snotty too.

Re: 6th edition

While some character concepts may not be penalized now, others clearly are- a martial artist in 5th, with let's say Dex 23 spent 39 points and recieved OCV/DCV 8 as a result of their higher Dex- which is perfectly in conception for someone like Iron Fist, Shang Chi, Karate Kid, etc. They also had a base Spd of 3.3. Now, likely this character would then be bought up to 5 or 6 Spd and would have a few levels of combat skill levels as well. Then you also have your speedsters, your feral type characters, your cybernetically enhanced or wired reflex characters, etc. In many cases these characters had one main advantage over other character types- better speed and chance to hit/avoid being hit, and now they are being shafted, having to spend more points to get that same advantage while those with other power types are having their abilities lowered in cost... seems like a penalization of certain concepts to me.

Why should this same character now have to pay 26+50+13-39= 50 more points for no additional effect? How is that not not penalizing a character concept? If you had a character with a Dex 23 in your game that didn't have a valid justification for that level of Dex then it is the fault of the player for min-maxing and the GM for not enforcing concept, not the fault of the system.

Re: 6th edition

In 5E, 18 points spent on DEX gave you 41 points worth of stuff. The fact that you liked the bargain doesn't mean it wasn't a bargain.

 

 

 

By this logic, no editions after the 1st should ever have been done. Everything changed later had previously been some other way for every previous edition of the game.

Actually- no. All the changes made from editions 1-5 were enhancements or alterations of the existing system (with one or two minor exceptions) and were also all done or implemented by those that actually CREATED the hero system. I might not have liked all the changes made but as they were the creators, I recognized that it was their sandbox to alter as they saw fit. If Steve was so opposed to the way the system ran then he should have developed his own system that worked the way he felt it should, instead of massively altering the existing Hero system (and while some may think that removing Com and decoupling figured chars isn't that big a change, I disagree- these were fundamental elements of the system from the start and chnaging them is more than a 'cosmetic' or 'accounting' change IMO).

Re: 6th edition

I believe the the argument is that DEX determines the order a character goes on during Segment that they have a phase. It also modifies the rolls of the largest set of Skills on the list (something like half the Skill List is Dex Based skills).

 

You are making Derek's point about 5e Dex being massively underpriced. 10 pips of Dex costing 30 points gave, you: 10 points higher on the order of Combat during an action segment (ie phase), +2 to all Dex Rolls, +1 Speed, +3 OCV, +3 DCV. So costed out 10pts for Lightning Reflexes, +10 for +2 Dex, 10pts for 1 pip of Speed, +30points for +3/+3 levels OCV/DCV So 60pts of Benefits for 30 pts.

 

in 6e 10pts of Dex 20pts gives you +10 Lightning Reflexes (10pts), +2 for all Dex rolls (12pts). So you still get good value for your points.

 

BTW OCV was DEX/3 so 10 dex gave 3.3 OCV or 3. not 4 OCV.

In YOUR opinion Dex was underpriced- I and others liked it just fine. What's more, it had been that way for 5 editions of the game and should have stayed the same- I unerstand and Darren and Steve bought the system but if they did not want it the way it was then they should have just created their own system from scratch instead of haywiring what many felt to be an excellent system just because they didn't like it- like many of the changes that Steve made because he did not like one aspect of the game or gameworld. If there were so many things he didn't like then why didn't he come up with his own system and gameworld?

As to your comment about my math- due to rounding, the move from Dex 10 to Dex 20 increased the OCV/DCV values from 3 to 7, which you should know.

Re: 6th edition

On the other hand, the characteristics from wich STUN is derived also cost less.

A good example are DEX/OCV/DCV. DEX now only costs 2 Points per point. But buying OCV/DCV costs 5 points per points. The result: You save almost as much on dex as you have to spend on OCV/DCV. The same is true for EGO and ECV's. Also you don't have to pay for high dex to get high OCV, or get high ECV's (that you don't need) for byuing up your Ego.

Of course there is a small difference, but that one is caught up by having more points avalible (50 in the Superheroic genre) and less complications.

You're going to have to explain your math to me- how does previously paying 30 pts for +10 Dex/+1 Spd/+4 OCV/DCV cost almost the same as paying 20 pts for Dex, +10 pts for +1 Spd, and +40 pts for +4 OCV/DCV? Dex is not really cheap now as you mentioned in another post either- if anything now it should be 1/2 pt per pt as your Int raises 2 skill rolls and possibly initiative value as well for 1 pt per character pt, which is effectively 150% of what you get for buying dex now.

Re: How strong is...

The average roll on 5d6 is 17.5, so that 16 defense bank vault is still going to take time for a 75 STR character. STR 45, with an average roll of 10.5? Don't hold your breath!

 

As for pushing, while another topic entirely, I'm not convinced ripping a vault door open is a sufficiently heroic action in most cases to allow pushing. A Haymaker would be more viable anyway, adding 4 DC's, but 4d6+1 still averages 15 BOD, so you'll likely need several tries to get in.

True- but rarely is a roll exactly average- that 5d6 might roll 20, might even roll the full 30? Unlikely sure but it happens- I think pushing would be heroic if there were something inside the safe that was vitally important to get out- say an NPC running out of air or a bomb set to blow up the valuables inside...

Re: How strong is...

When does a credible opponent in a game where 8 DC's are the norm have 2 defenses? I agree averages and damage after defenses are more important, but it is campaign standard defenses, not "NPC Scenery" defenses, that are important.

 

On average, the 75 STR character will roll 15 BOD, which is less than the poster hypothesizes above. He needs 90 STR to rip the vault door off its hinges on an average roll.

 

I suggest the issue is not with the damage, or the doubling conceit, but in making real world objects excessively sturdy as compared to the expected power level of the characters. If a 60 STR character should be able to rip the vault door off its hinges, laughing as he robs the bank, it should have lower defenses. Maybe it gets higher BOD, and the character must take a few phases (12 seconds in a turn!) to rip the vault door off, but it should be a trivial task for any Brick if we are to be true to the source material.

I think if the use of strength over a certain threshold were converted to KA damage, it might better model the horrendous damage someone that strong should do, ie 75 STR is 5d6 KA and that vault door is easily removed, for a STR 45 Brick, the push for a 3 1/2dk KA still won't get through the door but it is much closer...

Re: How strong is...

Defenses are static vs various damage so that doesn't change the fact that 16 body is 4 times 4 Body, not 64 times- just because you're geting more damage past defenses doesn't change the power output of the attack, it just means that the target's defenses are ill equipped to deal adequately with that higher level of damage.

I understand the company line is that 5 active points= doubled, but it doesn't, no matter how you try to explain it.

Re: How strong is...

Actually the damage increases nonlinear too. 8d6 is 2^6 (64) times the damage. Not 6 times.

Uhm... no. 2d6= max damage of 4 body and 12 stun, 8d6= max body 16 and 48 stun, so 16/4 and 48/12= 4 times the damage, not 64 times the damage- the claim that because the lifting capacity doubles with every 5 points mean that any 5 active point increase equalled a doubling of power has never made sense. It's one of the reasons why superstrong characters in Champions are WAY underpowered in terms of their damage output vs. lifting capacity.

Perfect example- a bank vault (Per 6th ed, since that is what you use) has 16 rPD and 9 Body, now even saying that since the character wishes to rip a door off the vault, not destroy it so he's really just doing the damage to hinges and the locking mechanism and that would be say 2 of the 9 body of the door, he would still need to do 18 Body to achieve that effect. So, being generous and assuming that every thrid d6 rolled produces a 6 for 2 body damage, you are still looking at 15d6 Strength, or str 75 to rip that door off it's hinges- possibly a str 65 with pushing- that's someone capable of lifting 200 tons (65) or 800 tons (75) to do something that Str 40 or 45 characters do in comics. That does not follow as being accurate based on the genre being emulated in superhero comics.

Re: Mastermind. One Step at a Time

No one mentioned Body stat and since it is tied to Stun, I'll do both.

 

Body 20 He's survived it all and can tell the tale.

 

Stun 90 He can take a licking and keep on ticking (This assumes that other defences like Force Field are forthcoming)

Actually, as stated above by the Deadly Furred one upthread, we are doing the stats 6th ed first, but it was time for both of those stats anyways- they just aren't linked anymore.

Re: The Non Sequitor Thread

Apparently this term I'm going to hear the term Brain Plasticity alot...

Re: Champions of the Rising Sun - Japanies Super-Slangs

Why on Earth does an obvious typo look "offensive" to you?

If he purposely typo'd Japanies instead of Japanese then yes, that would be offensive.

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

I get that yet an update every now and then on the book would be nice. It's just frustrating to see newer titles being worked on without any news about CV3. Unfortunately imo it has killed any faith in them doing another similar trio of products yet again. I also hope releasing a lot of PDFs and slow print releasess does not become the standard at HG because chances are people will get the PDF first and not the print version later. Extended anticipation on a product also kills interest in a product.

 

 

 

Can we get a tentative date even if it's something like "Between Janurary or March". At this point "weeks or months away just no longer cuts it imo.

Wow, someone with a avatar and title based on a game from a company that is notoriusly the worst in the gaming industry for getting books out on time (or at all) complaining about a delay on Herogame's schedule. Look at it this way- at least they: 1)Produce PDFs of their books so that you can get the book before the physical copy comes out when there are cashflow probelms, and 2)At least they have never solicited for a book that still has not been produced 20 years later. But you can certainly get upset over the delay if you want, that's your right as a consumer.

Re: Champions of the Rising Sun - Japanies Super-Slangs

Could someone please edit the title this thread to the proper spelling of Japanese, as the current spelling, intentional or not, looks pretty offensive to me and I would think others as well.

Re: Destroy Your Geek Cred!!

Didn't hate Twilght - except for the idea of sparkly vampires.

Not only is your geek cred gone, but you need to get off OUR boards...

Just kidding, but... really?

Re: The Non Sequitor Thread

I think my new Psych Prof is off her meds!

Re: Destroy Your Geek Cred!!

I don't like Alex Ross' "art" (really, as artists go, he's a good photographer)

Joss Whedon's run on Xmen made me throw up a little in my mouth

I have only ever read the Hobbit and the Fellowship of the rings- I couldn't get any farther through LOTR

I've seen a little Dr. Who but could never really get into it

Never read a Potter book but saw all the movies

I think Geoff Johns should be beaten with a large pointy stick for bringing back Hal Jordan

Uh, that's all I have for now...

Re: The Non Sequitor Thread

Apparently cheating on an exam in a Critical Thinking course and therefore failing the term did not seem like an ironically bad idea to people in my class...