Pendaran

Re: ... until it becomes... a Thing of Iron! and that the number of times he hits hard enough sans Iron Fist to affect otherwise notably durable things would yet implies it's vastly more reliable than being at basic levels. By this I mean in separate situations. It's something he reliably does whether on people in power armour, or robots, or Iron Man, or whichever. As far as other things that would go into his point cost, it occurs to me to mention that even the most basic descriptions of Daniel quite usually note that he's used chi to amp his physical attributes to above human levels. He and a guy trained to operate on his level have hung with flippin Spider Man in fights (said guy having caught Spidey mid leap and hurled him into a tree).

Re: ... until it becomes... a Thing of Iron! Ooookay... first off on the healing, one use of it comes when Danny is crushed and dying under the rubble of an exploded building, internal injuries, the whole shebang. Concentrates, uses the Iron Fist, healed and whole. Also, so, once again, how are you expresses his being able to undo mental conditioning in others and ease psychological trauma? With regen and rec? That works on others now? These are not nitpicky details, these are big things he does. Big important at one point climax of an entire plot and issue style things. As for the psyching cleansing, they repeatedly referred to it after that in the series, and he used a lesser variant of it to ease the mental scarring and nightmares of others at various points. It was never taken as something he could only do that one time. That you say "well, I have a home brew custom system for things like that", that's nice, I'm taking in standard Champions, y'know, the game what says one can approximate comics. At least you acknowledge the rather high ED he needs to have, resistant at that considering Radion's attacks at the very least. And the power of the main character in a comic thing? I bluntly find that completely ridiculous. Danny's a superhero in a superhero comic, he takes on the entire Wrecking Crew at once, he takes on whole teams of X men at once, he takes on groups and groups of guys, at once. This is just something he's capable of doing. It's part of his overall capacity. It's something that someone, oh, saying "I'd like to play Iron Fist", in, oh, a role playing game designed to approximate the feel of superhero comics, would legitimately expect to be able to do. As you're fond of saying, this is something he does "consistently over time" As for the cheap find weakness for Iron man? Considering every strike he lands on the guy sans Iron Fist on the guy in their fight is affecting him, that's one hell of a find weakness roll to be making, would seem to be a bit better than the standard 11-... at least 6 times by my count. And even the Iron Man of this era was actually rather tough, not like he was the guy in the 60s golden tin can. Daniel was in an even fight with him. As far as the illusions, it wasn't "ah, I recognize from the telltale sign that this is an illusion" it was, Iron Man activates image inducer, Danny responds by clocking him. Oh, something else, as far as his overall above normal senses and reaction time, he clocks Nightcrawler as he teleports in. Oh, and Coleen Wing is a multiple degree black belt and expert swordswoman, among other things, not on Rand's level no, but in a fight where he's desperately holding back and she's not..

Re: ... until it becomes... a Thing of Iron! The man, in his early days, punched hard enough with the Iron Fist to make Collossus and the Wrecking Crew feel it and go flying, nerve striking one of them to the point where they cry out in pain (the Wrecking Crew, who fight Thor. Thor.), to damage Warhawk and send him flying, used the Iron Fist to heal himself and others both physically and mentally, outright shrugged off various powerful energy attacks ranging from radiation blasts to the Flames of the Faltine, was able to dodge sniper fire and figure out where the sniper was, was able to manhandle an entire team of X-men, punched hard enough even without the Iron Fist to be making Iron Man feel it, and to bend steel and the like when he was fighting a giant steel robot. At one point against Batroc's legions was fighting in the many multiples of guys at once. He could will himself to ignore pain and to restore feeling to atrophied nerves. He took a blunt impact to the chest stated to be "as powerful as a howitzer", the impact of such having one shot KO'd various other people, and he kept going. He's been smacked in the back of the head with pipes and still stayed conscious. He was able to take out Sabertooth while blind and fighting off of blindfighting techniques. When Iron Man attempted to use illusions on him, Danny simply laughed it off and seemed to automatically know which Iron Man amidst all the doubles was the real one, striking him and staggering him. His mental defenses are such that when a mystic buffed a constant psychic attack of one of his henchmen to mess Daniel up, while at the same time he had to nonlethally subdue a close friend of his who was trying to kill him (and was an expert fighter herself), he managed not just to subdue her anyway, but to use his abilities to totally undo the brainwashing and psychic conditioning she had undergone, basically thus shrugging off all the while the constant, being magically buffed at that, psychic assault on him. I mean seriously, low ED? low? you saw his fights with Radion? or Master Khan? or taking Banshee's sonic scream and only faking being KO'd? This is all early Danny Rand. Who yes, ontop of everything else, was rich and had a bunch of useful contacts. a 300 point Iron Fist is one that I boggle at accomplishing any of the above. Especially the manhandling a team of X-men part. Nevermind later Daniel Rand, who can toss off multiple IFs per day without feeling drained by them and who's strikes have shredded Vibranium.

Re: WWYCD? #126: For Whom the Bell Tolls is the Shield at least vulnerable to mental attacks?

Re: What is it about Champions? hi, the player of Horus Re from the New Sentinels game that gets mentioned here. Horus is bar none one of the brightly shiniest characters I have ever played, you can apparently see various quotes from him in certain threads and the like. He lacks angst, he's noble, he's heroic in a campaign that skews Bronze to Silver Age, with mostly Silver. I love playing him, it's some of the most fun I have ever had. Vampire is about one of my all time favourite rpgs. My favourite pc I've ever had is a vamp. I've had fun long lasting campaigns in it. Dark as hell to be sure, but fun. I'm 24, the other people I've gamed with, in their 20s to 30s. I go out regularly on the weekends with large groups of people to hang out, go to theaters, go to sports bars (before I got Crohn's disease and alcohol became verboten) and the like. All the people in the campaign did that too. So, your view of vampire? narrow minded and innacurate. At least I guess you openly gave it that caveat.

Re: Iconic Characters: the Justice Squadron which is fine for a GM to do if they want, just that setting a bar at a certain level means there will be a bunch of things in the comics that are never really going to get approximated without going all the time "yeah yeah, just roll the power skill" or a great deal of fudging (there are just some concepts that you can't manage at 350 points, from equipment, wealth and connections alone) and unless you also bap down pretty much everything in the entire world, the ocassional wondering of "and why are superheroes handling this problem when the conventional solution could pretty much be doing the same job?" I mean, 350 point city/sometimes above city type heroes (like the New Warriors or so forth) handle problems on that level that conventional solution based things can't approximate (you don't send in the cops to stop the Shocker when he's knocking over a bank, you send Spider-Man, fer instance). If however the JLA are 350, then the generally non world saving, non iconic exemplar to the planet hero types are what, 150 or so, decidedly limiting what they can do on their level. Either way though, whether creating your own team of JLA types, or heavily mauling the extant stats and nature of the world to let some 350 point team somehow be the JLA, it's still shoehorning to compensate for something currently lacking in the extant setting, just via different methods.

Re: Iconic Characters: the Justice Squadron Oh, no, don't misunderstand. What I mean is, I myself am in favour of iconic heroes being statted at higher than starting points, to where teams of them can legitimately take on the setting megavillains as presented. And just beyond that be capable of the high end feats that iconic superheroes do. What my problem is is the assumption and arguement that you should in fact do this with 350 point characters, that totally bastardizing the power skill in ways the game rules don't really allow for is fine to make this happen, and that playing 350 point characters on a scale less than that of the JLA is somehow wrong and bad and that it's needless twinkery to do otherwise. There are lots of viable and fun things to do with 350 point characters. And then there are just things that come off as silly to do with them.

Re: Iconic Characters: the Justice Squadron I have to wonder, why would it be bad to run 350 point characters on a city scale campaign, where they don't encounter the Justice League all that often or ever, because, y'know, the comic JLA tend not to operate on a city scale? Why do heroes not matter unless they can save the entire world every other day? Tons and tons of comics are about heroes and teams that generally operate on the scale of a city/country. Does that make them suck?

Re: Iconic Characters: the Justice Squadron no.. he seems to be clearly saying he wants to see a team that can stand against him cleanly, not a single hero.

Re: Gods and Champions Grr.. you know, in that Horus-Re has been divinely sanctified as a Pharoh way, way, way back when, he'd probably have something of a deep personal conflict of not treating something like that as having to be dealt with as Pharoh would given the specific affrontery.. Wait, of course you know that Jeff

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe I don't see what's so horrifying about playing 350 point heroes on the scale of Spider Man, Daredevil, Iron Fist, the New Warriors and such people. That's their scale. Heroes on that scale do plenty of vital and important things. If they weren't out there and doing them, their world would be pretty crappy to a huge degree. As they go up in power, you graduate them to operate on the scale that higher powered heroes do. Spider Man, and, say, the New Warriors (back in the early days when they had the good writing) typically, outside of rare, big event plot arcs, will operate on a needs to save the city level, Superman and the JLA, typically, will operate on a needs to save the world level. Why is that bad exactly? Frankly, this is a rpg, sure, but it's a /comic book super hero rpg/, if you're going to argue that it shouldn't approximate comics to a certain degree, why are you playing it? I mean, the players can be important in the campaign world without the entire setting being required to lie down and be their bitch even when that makes no sense whatsoever. Also, cartoon JLA? 350 points? Does that include when TAS Superman was tunneling into the Earth's mantle on sheer personal power to head off Darkseid's planet rumbling weapons? Or when he was brainwashed and rumbling whole armies to the point where they had to bust out kryptonite to stop him? Or when GL uses the ring to travel great distances in space and take down war vehicles that were previously laughing off heavy artillery? When Hawkgirl was smacking down planet busting energy cannon shots with her mace? Or the sheer array of gear and skills Batman has? Oh, and if a group of Solars have turned Arada into an enemy, they can't really be all that heroic. The man has turned his back on the Realm and is devoted to doing as much good as he can before his body breaks down and stops working and he dies. That screams out for alliance with plucky band of heroes. edit: to explain "to a certain degree", if someone brings up the "well comic characters are static in capability and pcs get xp so we can't approximate comics ever anyway" Frankly, lots of comic characters actually aren't that static. Look at, say, the original Teen Titans roster, or the original core X-Men, all of them (except for maybe Beast Boy) have jumped way up in power or skill or even just things like accessbile contacts and the like, since those days, in part just from growing up. And comics are full of instances where characters get a better handle on their powers, learn new techniques, go through some kinda training montage thing, develop new and interesting contacts and such things, etc. Sure, lots are static, but lots aren't. edit edit: I mean, look at Jack Knight from Starman (*sniff* I miss Starman. Oh how I miss Starman). Jack at the beginning of the series and Jack at the end of the series are two vastly different people in terms of skill, experience, knowledge, capability, network of allies and friends, and even tricks and techniques they can do with the cosmic rod. Heck, Jack himself even points out when he's defeating a villain that had once upon a time given him a lot more trouble how much he's improved.

Re: What would your character do #83 ? ookay, I don't really post or read these sorts of things so much, but a friend mentioned the thread to me, so.. Hi, the player of Horus Re here, and just some things to mention, I don't use the mystical truth sense like a damned blunt hammer, most of the time I use it to augment the bunches of points I've put into things like deduction and criminology, Horus Re having been around for thousands of years and having fought Nama's touch on the world for a lot of those, he'd head to learn tot hink like a detective often just from that, though inborn kneeness of mind helps. He'd be a damn idiot to not realize that "Truth" isn't always the full story of things, and what Acroyear mentions sounds like a scheme Nama would come up with when drunk to try and screw around with him with. As far as the specific situation, in the case of innocence, barring railroading utter nonsense, Horus would appeal to whoever he needed to to get a delay in the execution so that he could investigate the matter for himself and get proof, and figure out what was going on in full. Before "and what if he dies while in custody during that from vengeful guards/prisoners/Nama/spiteful railroading GM?" well, aside from that he'd also likely make sure the guy would be safe while he does this ("hey Micro? need you to stake somewhere out for a while all tiny size" well, Horus would put it more formally.) He also doesn't use the rep decades of heroic action have warranted, like a blunt hammer, as that would conflict with his desire not to set himself up as the unquestioned overlord of Earth. As a recent example, the President has entered into some deals with Menton that while Horus Re finds wrong, the reasons do actually make sense in an honourable way as far as the situation (long story, but please feel free to snap judge on it based on limited exposure!), Horus response was not to demand all cessation, it was to /give advice/ to someone he respects about the drawbacks of this, and ask to be allowed to take a role in watching over this arrangement and helping to keep it from turning into some horrible disaster. As far as Acroyear... I took a fair bit of time to put my char together, I've been enjoying playing him in campaign, he fills a particular niche in that world as far as doing a JLA analogy, yes, I'd liked to have think I've been handling it well, and not abusing it particularly. I spent time in consultation with the GM and some of the other players putting that char together and discussing said role in the campaign. I've spent sessions further dealing with being in that niche, and, I've liked to think, earning the character being where is he is as far as it goes. To hear "well, I'd try to tear him down just for being too damn shiny" well, it's more than a little insulting to all that. But really, considering his main enemy is damned Nama, he's actually pretty used to schemes like that being hurled his way every few years, and has had a decent record of working around them while actually responding to the core issue in them... *shrugs* again, he'd have the common sense bother to take the time to figure out in depth what is going on, and simply ask his contacts/allies (which, yes, includes the President, again, something justified via rping out interaction with, why, even just recently) to help him have the time in which to do that. As far as redemption... that's thornier, it depends on what the crimes in full are, and if the criminal himself believes he has earned death for them. Horus is closer to Thor than Superman in overall personal moral orientation, sometimes a crime is so dark that the only redemption their is is to face death for it honourably. Yes, Horus is a god, as far as it goes, he also feels that the time in which he should openly rule over the nations of man have long since ended, and that his role now is a champion of such, not a king of such. Oh, and yes, the president is a paid for contact, thanks for assuming.