Fox1

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

Re: Which of Your House Rules should be System Rules? Interesting to browse the thread, almost all of it concerns point costs in one way or another. For me, the points don't matter as I tend to build to concept without a budget. My balance is done by character niche, not points. Given my success on this line (and the point differences between characters that result from it), I'd have to say the for balance purposes- the points suck. I'm doubtful that point constructions can ever be made to balance. So all the focus on them is somewhat amusing. I'm sure other think differently and I don't really intend to de-rail the conversation. So consider this a passing concept. Beyond that, I think all my house rules should be in the next edition. About time they did the game right

Re: Calling Marvel fanatics As a general rule, I typically hate most changes of major characters to be less than... idea. Some however are useful. Giving Angel healing and 'hard light bolts' was a good idea to help out a otherwise near worthless character (I CAN FLY! big whoop). So much so I grabbed the abilities and tossed them on his character sheet even through they took away the 'hard light bolts' and used the bad concept of his blood being used for healing (I just gave him simple healing instead). Emma always had the problem of being a glass jaw in addition to being a half power copy of Jean. The actual comic ability isn't ideal, but giving her a mid-brick with high defenses mult-form is kinda of cool. Add in the fact she'll use her telepathy in ways Jean won't- and she's now a neat team member for an X-Men based game.

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form Shapeshift... Yes, that would work. If you're going the OIHID way, I'd used Shapeshift.

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield? I seem to recall an option from somewhere (UMA perhaps) that allows one to mix and match block and MD to taste. Or that may be a house rule of mine. Doesn't matter enough to me to look it up.

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form This sucks because it's nothing like how the actual power works. And It's a complex build to boot. I want the old power back. However OIHID typical takes a phase to change, so I don't see a way around it. Multi-form has this 'reversion' limits defined for it. But this is good. I gave him total Life Support. Easier to put on sheet and it seems correct to me.

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form Well, I did the write-up as a Multi-form since as I understood it Peter in his normal human form was just a normal guy with some nice stats. It naturally included a lot of stuff as a result. So I don't quite see where you're coming from...

Re: Calling Marvel fanatics So... Did you know she's with Scott now because Phoenix came back in time after her 'death' and whipped some Mind Control on her husband so that he'd take up Emma on her offer to run the school together and thus have a reason to live? One couldn't make this stuff up if one tried- unless you watched soap operas as a profession. Sigh.

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield? Yep. And the forcewall construction has to worry about Dispell and Suppress effects from non-shield like sources causing it problems. There are ways around both the issues, but it just plain gets overly complex or dependent up GM rulings. It's one of the reasons I dislike the trend towards new 'cute tricks'.

Re: Calling Marvel fanatics That's it? Basically just an abort to being invulnerable? That not only doesn't require a multi-form, it's rather boring besides. I think I'll grab some hints from the X-Men Legends game (first console game I've played in years. Greatness) and do her as a mid-level brick in this form. Will be more fun for the player that way and is a better use of the concept.

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield? Typical 5th edition stuff. It's why I don't buy their supplements anymore. But I'm likely the only one who disapproves of the 'cute tricks' build concept.

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield? Have to have some reason why the Marvel Universe says Cap is unmatched as in hand-to-hand combat. Could do it just by combat levels, but SPD bring it home like nothing else. Besides, Iron Fist has his own cool tricks so he's not upset. Heck just being called a LIVING WEAPON is... oh well. Let's leave out the living weapon cliché.

So I'm setting here converting Marvel characters into HERO 5e (most are BBB or earlier) for our long standing campaign that has gotten moving again in recent days... And I come to Emma Frost. Some really interesting things (some not so of course) had happen to her in the comics in recent years and I decide to combine some of them into her as she exists in our campaign. And realized that I don't know hardly anything about her Diamond Form secondary mutation. I know I'm handling it with Multi-form as she loses all her mental abilities except for her defenses in this form. I know she has very high defenses (a couple of things I've seen indicate REALLY high defenses). Beyond that I'm clueless as I haven't read the comics, just overviews of them. So, give me the low down. Does she have super strenght, how strong? Any other abilities, etc.

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield? Well if it helps any, I once did a progression chart for SPD that matched reflexes to that stat the same way lift did for STR. Using the same progression I used for my house rule strength stats, and the listing in my Marvel Universe at the time, Cap (with 10x the reflexes of a normal man) ended up with a SPD of... 7. Those are just additional degrees of difference. For example, I didn't buy two of those three for Cap. My approach was driven in part by my need to keep my construction consistent (i.e. they must be able to play with each other) across campaigns. So if my Special Ops solider has a speed four, well that means a Superhero MA must be at least a five, Iron Fist and the like has to be even better, and Cap has to have an edge on that. Buy judging it a mix matter of reflexes AND combat judgement I got there. To back it all up is research that shows the difference between regular and elite soldiers in battle is often the fact that the elite is ACTING and not wasting time deciding to act. Martial Art training in movies/books say the same thing- don't think, act. What the mind forgets, the body remembers, etc. So it's genre to look at it in this way. DEX 30? No, I can't go there. I've capped it at 25 if you're on level with Captain America, and 23 if you're not. I've also capped total CSL to 6 (most world-class superhero MA have 4) for my games although penalty levels can still be brought.

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield? I think it can be justified. If faced with Mandriods, I think I'd start checking to see if I can target the armor, and go after them with the Edge Killing AP to wreck the focus. I'd have to look up the rules to see if it's possible now. I use his Overall and All Combat levels for that. But thanks for reminding me, since I switched the shield to a recoverable charge, I need to add a bounce skill level to keep things even. I'll be playing with that 5E revised write-up for a while. New edition in HERO cause more work than any other game I think...

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield? Since a Missile Deflection is a combat action that ends your phase, Slots 7 & 8 are 'locked out' by default by the use of Slot 2. +14 to Block plus -10 KNB? Block stops all knb doesn't it? The Damage reduction can work if you assume AEs/EXs leak around the shield, depending upon the damage levels in your campaign. I think I like my method better however Interesting that you put AP on the thrown Strike. Makes it very different from the HtH strike.

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield? 25 DEX and a 7 SPD. I may view them differently than most. I don't view it as just pure physical ability. I view it in large measure as to how decisive the character is in combat, i.e. how quickly he takes in the battle and determines a course of action. So it's a mix source stat for me. So here's how my game breaks down on SPD values: Normal humans: 1-3 SPD Exceptional Combat Humans, Typical Superhero: 4 SPD Superhero Martial Artist/Combat Guru: 5 SPD World Class Superhero Martial Artist: 6 SPD (Batman, Iron Fist, etc. go here) Captain America (ultimate human combatant- Super Soldier): 7 SPD Spiderman comes in at a 8, Quicksilver at a 10. Here's DEX (for human types): Normal humans: 8-16 Exceptional Combat Humans, Typical Superhero: 17-18 Superhero Martial Artist/Combat Guru: 20-23 World Class Superhero Martial Artist: 23 (Batman, Iron Fist, etc. go here) Captain America (ultimate human combatant- Super Soldier): 25 In general, compared to at least old style Champions I run less DEX, SPD, CON and more Def and damage.

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield? I've sort of avoided this because any construction is very specific to the campaign at hand. They often don't make sense outside that. Plus some items on a build have GM permission required, there's the influence of house rules on the build, etc. As a result, such things often don't make sense unless you can place it in context, something difficult if you don't play in my game. This is also a 'quick' conversion to 5E, I haven't seriously double, tripled, and quad check it to make sure all the points are correct. I hope I've costed the shield so the slot cost conflicts work right. So bear with errors in that respect. So... With that said, Here's the entire character sheet in PDF. http://home.comcast.net/~b.gleichman/Campaigns/Superheroes/Captain%20America.pdf Here's the Shield in a slightly unreadable format: Shield: Unbreakable Focus Cost 93 Multi-Power Reserve: 162 Points (OIF -1/2, OAF when thrown -1/4) 1 1) DCV +2, Lockout on Slots 5-6 (-1/4) 10U 1 2) +5 to Missile Deflection 10U 1 3) Missile Reflection; Full Concentration (-1/2), Full Phase (-1/2) 40U Any Target 6 4) Armor: 30 PD, 30 ED; 2x Hardened Defenses 142U w/15" Knb Resistance Requires a 'Block' Action' (-1/2) 1 5) Strike: HA +3d6, No End Cost (+1/2) 15U 3 6) Edge: 1 1/2d6K HtH, AP (+1/2), No End Cost (+1/2) 50U 1 7) Thrown Strike: HA +3d6, Usable at Range (+1/2) 30U 1 Recoverable Charge (-1 1/4); Lockout (-1/2), No End Cost (+1/2) 2 8) Thrown Edge: 1 1/2d6K HtH, AP (+1/2), Usable @ Range (+1/2) 62U No End Cost (+1/2) 1 Recoverable Charge (-1 1/4); Lockout (-1/2) Slot one is the basic +2 DCV for the shield. Added to his base DCV, Combat Values and Martial Arts, it's significant. It locks out all attacking functions except Slot 3. Slot 2 is a bonus to his natural Missile Deflection written on the sheet. Slot 3 represent his ability to (with serious effort) reflect attacks Slot 4 is the defense vs. AE/EX I've spoken of. It can also be used for other things, like vs. falling damage. In the same way we alllow bricks to 'shield' normals with their body- it also allows Cap to shield others if they are directly behind him. Slot 5 is the basic hit them with the shield. The high bonus (not the typical 2d6 for a club) is due to it's special ability to in effect absorb the impact into itself and reflect it back. Used with his Martial Arts style. Slot 6 may not have been mention in this thread. Cap has used the shield to slice and dice many a robot- and cut the head off of Baron Blood. This is that Kill attack. AP is due to the absorb/reflect effect again. Again used with his Used with his Martial Arts style. Slot 7 & 8 are the lockout thrown versions of slots 5 & 6. They are used with his ranged Martial Arts skills. This is very important as it allows him to do many of his comic moves with the shield (trip, disarm, etc.). The inter-relationship between fixed defensive actions, the slot costs, plus the lockout slots are tactically interesting, as is the loss of the +2 DCV if he uses it offensively. Also note that he does more damage HtH then range (due to the Martial Arts effects), thus giving him another reason to close to battle- as in the comics. Edit: I have a BLAST running this character. The other one I run is Cyclops when it's a X-Men game. Note- no vehicles or bases included on the sheet. I don't make individual characters note the payment for such there. Save space and we all know he has the stuff. New Edit: Btw, I've only recently started converting characters to 5E. That's the primary reason I'm visiting this group. To see ideas on how things are done in HERO 5e. So that write-up is rushed. I just caught a error and had to go correct it and up load it again. That will likely happen for days...

Re: Why can't Teleport do the Move attacks? Then all is good.

Re: Why can't Teleport do the Move attacks? Actually I'm not interest in the move-through myself. I'd just allow half-move port, half move run/move-through. I think the half-move port upfront preventing any other movement afterwards is silly... because it's silly. I'm interested in the move-by like Passing Strike without velocity add as I think that's the proper way to handle Nightcrawler. Now one may have have to buy it with some advantage to represent that he's touching the real would multiple times in his FMove, and not just at the half phase and end phase. Otherwise you can't really do his multiple move-by. Never consider that aspect before...

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield? I use +30 rPD & rED myself. I don't recall many AE/EX attacks being able to Stun Thor. Directed attacks, yes. But block or missile deflect works on them. In the few cases where I do recall such AE/EX attacks in the comics, they cooked the good Captain just as well. In any case, from my write-ups.. checking here.... Thor would be stunned by an AE doing 85 stun (55 PD, 30 CON), Cap would be stunned by an AE doing... 83 (48 total PD, 25 CON). That would take a 24 dice AE on average. Even so Cap would only be stunned for a single round. If you're tossing 24 dice AEs around, and they not 'beyonder' level attacks meant to whack Cap through/around the shield... Well, you're doing a compeltely different style of Avengers game than I. Poor Hawkeye, Black Widow and others must be used to constant rezzes from someone.

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield? I want to expand on this. I've run a Marvel based game for a long time, and one of the key things about it IS this very fact. Thus when I make up a villain, I can ask myself have I given him powers that should work on HERO X. In this case, an AE/EX that would blow Cap away. Thus I can determine if it should (like a beyonder powered AE blast), or if it needs to be changed, or if I need to boost Cap's Shield. In a consistent setting (something comics aren't, but something I would say our games should be even so), we have to keep such things in mind for all the constructions. Thus I can't create just a X-Man, I have to create the whole team with a eye on everything. It's not as hard as it sounds, and it in the end makes things much easier. I don't have to worry about things that I'd never put in the game in the first place. Of course it means my write-ups are likely not transferable to other campaigns. But I don't see anyone requesting them for that anyway

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield? That's why I brought the offensive abilites with lockout on the defensive ones. If he's tossed the shield, he can't use the DCV bonuses. It makes it tactically interesting to run him, and gives him a reason to close with the enemy. Thanks.