Alcibiades

Hello all, I was hoping you could help me with a rules question. If I have a Grappling Block (Block, Grab One Limb), can I use it without the Block aspect, which is to say just use it to Grab (while losing the Abort aspect, of course)? If so, would it be OCV vs. DCV as usual with Grab, rather than OCV vs. OCV as with Block? I can't find a rule addressing this in the HSMA. Thanks much!

Dark Heresy is a bonus-based system, though, where a "standard" roll has something like a +20-30% bonus default.

I built a character that I really liked with the following power set. She's a splinter that has been cut out of Yggdrasil. 3 Branches, Roots, and Vines I Extra Limbs (100); Limited Manipulation (-¼), Variable Limitations (requires -½ worth of Limitations; Costs Endurance or Linked (The World Tree); -¼) 7 Branches, Roots, and Vines II Stretching 9m, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½); Limited Body Parts (Only with Extra Limbs; -¼), no Noncombat Stretching (-¼), Always Direct (-¼) 11 Branches, Roots, and Vines III + Stretching 18m, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½); Linked (The World Tree; -½), Limited Body Parts (Only With Extra Limbs; -¼), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Only When On the Ground; -¼), no Noncombat Stretching (-¼), Always Direct (-¼) 5 Vegetable Mind Mental Defense (5 points total) 41 Dendromancy Multipower, 62-point reserve; all slots Concentration (½ DCV; -¼), Extra Time (Full Phase, Only to Activate, -¼) (62 APs) 2f Awaken the Lesser Trees 1) Summon 298-point Treeman; Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -½), Extra Time (Extra Segment, -½), Concentration (½ DCV; -¼), Variable Limitations (requires -½ worth of Limitations; Summoned Being Must Inhabit Locale or Only in Area of Created Forest; -¼) (60 APs) 12 1f Burrowing Roots 2) Tunneling 9m through 9 PD material; Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (½ DCV; -½), Extra Time (Full Phase, Only to Activate, -¼) (27 APs) 3 1f Command Plants 3) +32 EGO; Limited Power Power loses about two-thirds of its effectiveness (Only for EGO vs. EGO Rolls vs. Summoned Plants; -1 ½), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -¼), Extra Time (Full Phase, Only to Activate, -¼), Concentration (½ DCV; -¼) (32 APs) 3 3f Command Plants 4) Mind Control 9d6 (Plant class of minds), Telepathic (+¼); Extra Time (Full Phase, -½), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (½ DCV; -½) (56 APs) 6 2f Create Forest 5) Change Environment (-1 to Normal Sight PER Rolls, -1 Characteristic Roll and all Skill Rolls based on Characteristic, -1 Range Modifier, -2m of any mode of Movement, -2m of any mode of Movement, -2m of any mode of Movement, Long-Lasting 1 Hour), Area Of Effect (1m Radius; +¼), Personal Immunity (+¼), MegaScale (1m = 1 km; MegaArea; +1); Increased Endurance Cost (x3 END; -1), Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), Only to Activate, -¾), Concentration (½ DCV; -¼), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Only vs. Targets on or Within 16m of the Ground; -¼), Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Side Effect always occurs whenever the character does some specific act; Does Considerable Damage to the Environment; -0) (62 APs) 18 2f Dendrokinesis 6) Telekinesis (40 STR), Alternate Combat Value (uses OMCV against DCV; +0); Only Works On Limited Types Of Objects Limited Group of Objects (Only Works on Plants; -½), Extra Time (Full Phase, -½), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (½ DCV; -½), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Only to Animate Plants (cannot move them through the air and so forth); -¼) (60 APs) 6 1f Pass Through Thickets 7) Desolidification (affected by Magic); Limited Power Power loses about two-thirds of its effectiveness (Only to Pass Through Plants; -1 ½), Does Not Protect Against Damage (-1), Extra Time (Full Phase, Only to Activate, -¼), Concentration (½ DCV; -¼) (40 APs) 4 1f Plantspeech 8) Telepathy 6d6 (Plant class of minds); Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (½ DCV; -½), Extra Time (Full Phase, -½), Communication Only (-¼) (30 APs) Dendromancy (continued) Dendromancy (continued) 2f Quicken Plants 9) Summon 4 200-point Monstrous Plants, Expanded Class of Beings (Very Limited Group; Monstrous Plants; +¼); Extra Time (Extra Segment, -½), Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -½), Concentration (½ DCV; -¼), Variable Limitations (requires -½ worth of Limitations; Summoned Being Must Inhabit Locale or Only in Area of Created Forest; -¼) (62 APs) 12 3f Striking Plants 10) Blast 8d6, Alternate Combat Value (uses OMCV against DCV; +0), Indirect (Source Point can vary from use to use, path is from Source Point to target; +½); Extra Time (Full Phase, -½), Variable Limitations (requires -½ worth of Limitations; OIF (Plants of Opportunity) or Only in Area of Created Forest; -¼), Concentration (½ DCV; -¼) (60 APs) 6 2f Take the Form of Plants 11) Shape Shift (Sight, Smell/Taste and Touch Groups, limited group of shapes), Cellular; Extra Time (Full Phase, -½), Concentration (½ DCV; -¼) (30 APs) 3 1f Tangling Thicket 12) Entangle 4d6, 2 PD/2 ED, Alternate Combat Value (uses OMCV against DCV; +0), Area Of Effect (4m Radius; +¼), Personal Immunity (+¼), Indirect (Source Point can vary from use to use, path is from Source Point to target; +½); Vulnerable (Very Common; Fire; -1), Vulnerable (Very Common; Takes 2x Damage from Cutting; -1), Extra Time (Full Phase, -½), Variable Limitations (requires -½ worth of Limitations; OIF (Plants of Opportunity) or Only in Area of Created Forest; -¼), Concentration (½ DCV; -¼) (60 APs) 6 1f Tangling Thicket 13) Entangle 5d6, 3 PD/3 ED, Indirect (Source Point can vary from use to use, path is from Source Point to target; +½); Vulnerable (Very Common; Fire; -1), Vulnerable (Very Common; Cutting; -1), Extra Time (Full Phase, -½), Variable Limitations (requires -½ worth of Limitations; OIF (Plants of Opportunity) or Only in Area of Created Forest; -¼), Concentration (½ DCV; -¼) (60 APs) 6 1f Wall of Plants 14) Barrier 5 PD/5 ED, 11 BODY (up to 8m long, 4m tall, and 1m thick), Opaque Sight Group, Personal Immunity (+¼); Limited Power Power loses about half of its effectiveness (Takes 2x Damage from Fire; -1), Limited Power Power loses about half of its effectiveness (Takes 2x Damage from Cutting; -1), Extra Time (Full Phase, -½), Variable Limitations (requires -½ worth of Limitations; OIF (Plants of Opportunity) or Only in Area of Created Forest; -¼), Concentration (½ DCV; -¼) (62 APs) 6 2f Writhing Plants 15) Telekinesis (10 STR), Fine Manipulation, Alternate Combat Value (uses OMCV against DCV; +0), Area Of Effect (17 2m Areas; +1 ¼), Selective (+¼); Extra Time (Full Phase, -½), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (½ DCV; -½), Physical Manifestation (-¼), Variable Limitations (requires -½ worth of Limitations; OIF (Plants of Opportunity) or Only in Area of Created Forest; -¼) (62 APs) 6 44 Hard- and Softwood Multipower, 44-point reserve (44 APs) 4f Hardwood 1) +10 STR plus +10 CON plus Resistant Protection (8 PD/8 ED) (44 APs) 1 4f Softwood 2) +9 DEX plus +3 DCV plus +1 SPD (43 APs) 5 Ironwood Power Defense (5 points) 16 Ironwood Resistant (+½) applied to PD plus Resistant (+½) applied to ED 5 Rooted Knockback Resistance -11m; Lockout (Cannot Run, Leap, or Otherwise Move from Position (is "rooted"); -½), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Only When On the Ground; -¼), Variable Limitations (requires -½ worth of Limitations; Linked (The World Tree) or Extra Time (Full Phase, Only to Activate) and Costs Endurance (Only to Activate); -¼) 7 Sapling Shrinking (0.5 m tall, 1.5625 kg mass, -4 PER Rolls to perceive character, +4 DCV, takes +12m KB), Costs Endurance Only To Activate (+¼); Increased Endurance Cost (x3 END; -½), Extra Time (Full Phase, Only to Activate, -¼), Concentration (½ DCV; -¼) 3 7 The Might of the Earth +11 REC; Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Only When In Contact With Earth/Stone; -½) 45 The World Tree Growth (+45 STR, +15 CON, +15 PRE, +9 PD, +9 ED, +9 BODY, +18 STUN, +7m Reach, +36m Running, -18m KB, hands/feet are Area Of Effect (1m Radius) attacks, 6,401-50,000 kg, +6 to OCV to hit, +6 to PER Rolls to perceive character, 9-16m tall, 5-8m wide), Costs Endurance Only To Activate (+¼); Increased Endurance Cost (x3 END; -½), Extra Time (Full Phase, Only to Activate, -¼), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Only When on the Ground; -¼), Side Effects (Side Effect always occurs whenever the character does some specific act; Loses All Leaping and Swimming and all but 2m of Running (becomes rooted); Automatically Happens When Power is Activated at the Huge Level; -¼), Concentration (½ DCV; -¼), Side Effects (Side Effect always occurs whenever the character does some specific act, Side Effect only affects the environment near the character; Does Significant Damage to the Environment; Automatically Happens When Power is Activated at the Huge Level; -0) 27 7 Vegetable Physiology Life Support (Eating: Character only has to eat once per week; Extended Breathing: 1 END per Minute; Longevity: 1600 Years) 7 Vegetable Physiology Life Support (Immunity All terrestrial poisons; Immunity: All terrestrial diseases); Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Not vs. Diseases and Poisons of Plants; -½)

INT, EGO, and PRE Drain with a very very slow return rate, only after a Grab.

I'm going to make a side note that Clarke's Law is actually meaningless, since for people who have historically believed in magic (which is most people throughout human history), it is a means of manipulating the world according to rational laws (you say the right things, for instance) in order to achieve desired results, which is to say that it is a kind of technology, Anyway

HERO is designed to be cinematic, not realistic, and hence this is a cinematic, action-movie cat.

The idea is that, as in a classic movie lycanthrope, there are three states -- human, animal-human hybrid, and animal. To change into an animal you have to become a hybrid first. So what I did was roughly Big Multipower Reserve, the whole thing with Variable Limitations (Extra Time, Increased END Cost [all Only To Activate] and so forth) to represent that changing forms is not easy. Slot 1: Bear Totem: STR + 15 plus CON + 5 plus HKA 1d6 plus PRE +10 (only to roar) (and a lot more stuff, basically what would bring the base character up to the level of the Werebear in the Bestiary) plus Multiform to 380-point Giant Bear with a higher level of Extra Time Slot 2: Owl Totem: DEX + 3 plus 20m Flight, Restrainable + HKA 1/2d6 etc. (to bring the character up to match the Bestiary's Birdman() plus Multiform to 250-point Giant Owl or 200-point Owl with a higher level of Extra Time and 3 others (Fox, Killer Whale, Wolf) The idea here being that the character activates a slot, obtaining the characteristic increases and so forth (the hybrid form), and also the ability to access the Multiform. But because the powers are not actually Linked to each other, and because the Multiform requires more Extra Time, it can only be activated by spending additional time -- activating the slot just gives access to it. Another consideration is that the hybrid forms retain the base form's abilities (mainly a small Magic Pool) and the full animal ones do not.

Well I am unclear about this. I see builds, in published materials, that have a compound power inside a Multipower slot with one power Linked to the other, which seems to imply that you could otherwise activate one power and not the other while the slot is active. EDIT: I see Hyperman mentioned this. The problem with the Limitation is that, due to how Multiform is priced, it applies to the whole power and not just the forms that would be affected by the Limitation. If I am expressing myself clearly? I suppose another route would be to give the base character a Multiform to the Animal Man forms, and then give each of those forms its own Multiform to the full Animal form. But that way lies madness.

Wouldn't a smartphone be basically a library, that is, a lab, as you would have in a base to get a supplementary skill roll for KSs? That's what it is, more or less -- it's not a library itself, it's allowing you to access libraries. Though I don't know how you would write that up

I think it would be much better to by Advantages for STR and/or an HTH Attack than for martial maneuvers themselves. You can simulate a lot with martial arts + a Naked Advantage, Variable Advantage (+1) on STR.

It was actually the only way I could think, without handwaving, of requiring the character to move through an intermediate form (activating the slot) before going to the final form (the various Multiforms had Extra Time on them, so he would have to change into the wolfman form and spend some time in it before changing into the full wolf, for instance).

I used Multiform in a Multipower to represent a character who could turn into various animals, with intermediate human-animal forms. It just seemed that only one to do it so the character would have to turn into a wolfman before he could turn into a wolf, for instance. It is something like Multipower with a really big AP limit (190 points or so) Slot 1: Avatar of the Wolf: +5 STR plus +5 DEX plus 1d6 HKA plus a bunch of other stuff (wolf abilities) plus Multiform to Wolf Slot 2: Avatar of the Killer Whale: +10 STR + 20m Swimming + 2d6 HKA plus a bunch of other stuff (killer whale abilities) plus Multiform to Killer Whale 3 or 4 more slots I'm actually not completely sure if this construction is legal and I'd appreciate input if it isn't.

Wait, why doesn't they HKA get STR damage added to it in this case?

I actually changed my mind after reading the criticism of the Summon inside a Summon idea in this thread and instead bought the crew as Telekinesis Selective Fine Manipulation (there doesn't seem to be any way to do this in HD, although vehicles in TUV have it), Clairsentience, and an HKA Selective to represent ghostly cutlasses repelling boarders. I'm not sure if the final build is actually book-legal, but it's based on the Telekinesis Selective example used throughout The Ultimate Vehicle (which itself never seems to explain how this works). I would upload the HD files if I could figure out how to do that.

What I wound up doing is buying a Summon for the ship, and then buying the ship itself a Summon to animate the dead who will crew it. This actually was a lot, lot cheaper than buying Telekinesis, Clairsentience, and RKA to simulate the crew and a lot, lot cheaper than buying them all as followers, and I like the image of skeletons lying akimbo on the ground until the ship's AI animates them and they knit themselves together, rising up to,man the cannons or repel a boarding action...

OK, so if I have my Ghost Ship at 185 points, a Ghost Lifeboat at 20 points (4x Lifeboats = 30 points), a 20-point AI that is the gestalt mind of the crew, and a crew of 45 220-point Skeleton Crewmen at 74 points, I can roll them all together into one 309-point composite character sheet (as per what Chistopher said above) and Summon them as follows: Summon 1 309-point Fully Equipped Creepy Ghost Ship, Amicable (Slavishly Loyal; +1), Arrives Under Own Power (-1/2), Extra Time (Full Turn; -1 1/4) 45 points Real Cost Is that right and rules-legal?

I'm just trying to figure out what the heck RAW is. I have no GM at present (I'm designing characters for fun).

I thought about this (floating cutlasses...). But I'm not sure how to do this, looking at sample powers in The Ultimate Vehicle as a guide. Like I said above, for some reason have any limitation forcing them to work only in the ship itself, or conversely an advantage allowing them to operate outside it. It's weird.

He would also have Lovecraft as a contact!

What I finally decided to do is to build a compound power out of 3 Summons: Summon Ghost Ship + Summon 4 Lifeboats + Summon AI. Then I built the "crew" as Powers for the ship itself -- Telekinesis (using the artificial gravity writeup in TUV as a guide), Clairsentience (based on the "internal monitors" power in TUV), a bunch of Blasts that are "muskets fired form the deck. Something confuses me about the vehicle rules though. The artificial gravity power (which I am using as the model for my "skeleton crew" going through the ship moving things around) is supposed to apply to the whole ship, but it has no Area Affect (though it does have "Selective," which I can't get Hero Designer to apply to it*), On the other hand, as written both it and the Clairsentence power should be able to be used off the ship as well as within it, because neither have No Range or Limited Range. Weird. * Hero Designer doesn't know the "Partial Coverage" limitation exists either. TUV is a 5ed book, so maybe this stuff dropped out of 6ed? EDIT: wait, so if instead of buying the crew as powers (assuming they are bound to the ship) I actually buy them as Followers (1/5 points discount) then attach them to the ship's character sheet and buy them along with that, I get another 1/5 points discount? Is that right?

That's my question though. I thought that the multiple beings adder meant more of the same kind of thing. Can I summon several different kinds of things at the same time in this way?

Doesn't that let you summon this, that, or the other? Four Ghost Ships for example. Whereas I want the ship, with the lifeboats on it, and all its "crew," all together. EDIT: while we're at it, summoned vehicles all have to be built with Amicable at the +1 level, I think. Or, if it's crewed and/or has an AI, do you buy Amicable for them instead?

I want to have my undead pirate captain by able to summon a Ghost Ship. The Ghost Ship is manned by a Ghost Crew and contains 4 Spectral Lifeboats, all of which come with the ship. Let's say I buy the Ghost Crew as an AI (alternatively I could do it as a couple hundred Followers). To summon the Ship + 4 Lifeboats + AI + another 4 AIs (to man the lifeboats), do I have to buy 3 different Summons all linked together, or can I buy one Summon of the main ship + x9 entities summoned, despite them having 4 different writeups? I'm really not sure how to do this. Thanks all!

Aha, thanks guys. That answers my question.

I am perplexed. Say that I have a gun -- RKA 1d6+1 Autofire (+1/4) 32 charges (+1/4) The RKA itself costs 20 points. With autofire it is 25 points. With autofire + charges it is 30 points. Let's say that I have a Naked Advantage (Penetrating, or whatever) that I want to apply to this. What is the Active Point cost of the power for determining the miimum level I need on the NA? If Penetrating was part of the power itself, it would cost 10 points (based on the base cost of the RKA). But if I buy it as an NA and apply it to the power, it costs 15 points?