Brainstorm

Re: What is STUN? What a cool discussion this is. As I was reviewing the thread, it occurs to me that people are right to point out that there are a huge variety of different phenomena that can inflict STUN damage. However, I do not believe it follows from this that STUN fails to be either useful or, for lack of a better term, "realistic." The trick is not to fall into this "stun is how much of a beating you've taken" and view it more abstractly as a general state of mind. So we start from this game definition that STUN is a status indicator. The current STUN of a character informs us if that character is incapacitated by (typically) fleeting effects. The concussion of a brick to the noggin could be such an effect; but so could the disorientation caused by a vertigo-themed villain's EGO Attack, discomfort inflicted by a heat-based Energy Blast, or even the gagging prompted by being in the radius of a Side Effect defined as a emitting a staggeringly noxious odor. So the STUN Characteristic is really a measure of how much ??? a character can take, where ??? is a broad set of phenomena. The unifying element is merely an ability to incapacitate without necessarily inflicting grave bodily harm. The complexities can be daunting. For example, a tear gas grenade could inflict STUN damage, yet robots have STUN and should be immune to the SFX of any conventionally defined "tear gas grenade" power. Yet that sort of complexity is misleading -- robot STUN and human STUN are both measures of ability to resist incapacitation. It remains an "apples to apples" comparison even though quirks of origin, SFX, etc. create variations in susceptibility to various forms of damage between humans and robots. STUN becomes a little easier to get a grip on when thinking about how these phenomena can accumulate. Perhaps a given character could just shrug off getting struck by a club or getting stuck with a tranquilizer dart or being hit with an EGO attack, but the concussion plus the drug plus the bad psychic vibes together produce a debilitating state. Also, be open minded about the roleplaying aspect of this. Negative STUN need not mean that a character is literally knocked out. Perhaps a character incapacitated by a magical swarm of insects is too busy swatting, screaming, and scratching to communicate or take other action. Perhaps a strong fear-based EGO Attack leaves a character paralyzed with terror, unable to speak or act. A cloud of poison gas could incapacitate a character by forcing him or her to do nothing but stagger and choke until sufficiently recovered from exposure. Yes, in the end, STUN is a mechanic that serves the purpose of upholding game balance while also supporting non-lethal forms of combat. As I see it, STUN damage is a broad set of phenomena including pretty much anything with the capacity to take a character out of action on a temporary basis. By extension, the STUN Characteristic is a measure of a character's ability to resist being overwhelmed by trauma, including both the trauma of serious injury (Killing Attacks normally do inflict STUN damage) and the trauma of severe distress (i.e. anything else that inflicts STUN damage.) Regards, Brainstorm

Re: A way to late idea for Ultimate Mentalist I was just thinking, one way to avoid imposition of a Mentalist archetype would simply be to create a faction or group that did impose this sort of "use Powers only with consent or when absolutely necessary to protect the innocent" standard of behavior. There is nothing wrong with a campaign where Mentalists typically see themselves as superior to other beings, but there is also nothing wrong with a campaign where Mentalists typically see themselves as controversial or unpopular figures who must be extremely ethical to avoid ostracism or open warfare. Heck, one could even take an approach some have used with vampires -- establish that Mentalists must be pathologically secretive about their true nature for fear of public backlash from the entire rest of the world. Still, to avoid controversey it may make more sense simply to establish a subset or faction that upholds a particular code of conduct, or even make it a personal code. In terms of a character sheet, it could even be as simple as adding a modifier. "Honorable Mentalists' Code" or "Benign Mentalists' Code" to be clear about the nature of the Disadvantage. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: Inverse Find Weakness I think the right approach to this would be to build partially restricted defenses. Activation or Requires a Skill Roll would make it possible to have defenses that only worked some of the time, perhaps even according to a coherent system. It may not be quite the same as a new Power, but it would reflect situations like a Force Field that works better when attuned specifically for the attack(s) presently directed at it or even some sort of armored suit that provides better protection when the wearer makes smart choices about orientation and posture relative to attacker(s). In fact, these additional defenses could even be connected with other Limitations like Extra Time or Concentration to reflect the process of adapting defenses or deploying countermeasures as the original post seems to suggest. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: A Question Of Marriage I laughed out loud at some of these interpretations. I've never been married myself, and only recently come to know anyone who inspires me to view the institution in a positive light. Yet it is in that positive light that I suggest this -- marriage is adding a new PC to the group. Only that approach reaches the right levels of significance and originality (and only that approach creates an individual who is never reduced to a prop or backdrop.) Besides which, what kind of newlyweds don't want to see each other wearing ? Most of the comments about Perks and Disadvantages had the ring of truth. However, I heartily recommend if anyone discusses this with a significant other, suggesting my approach. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: Total Darkness Sight Normal Sight gets free modifiers for being in the Sight Group. However, it is pretty common with 5ER's Darkness to buy it against the Sight Group. Thus it makes sense to build something more expensive than Sight in exchange for being able to work with the Unusual Sense Group (a.k.a. the "not really a group" Group.) Basically, someone would have to specifically build their Darkness to inhibit your Sense in order for it to be effective. If the idea that this could also pierce smoke, fog, et al. is problematic (and considering the modest intention of this Power in the first place,) I think a fair GM would offer a decent value to the "only in darkness" Limitation (which would still make the Power good for night vision) or a high value for an "only in darkness-based Darkness" Limitation (which would make it nothing more than an antidote to a single form of Darkness Power.) However, I chimed in on this thread in part because I had a funny thought when I first read the original post. Would it be possible to make Images with Invisible Power Effects? The idea would be to implement Images as a light source, then add that advantage so that others could not see the light. I'm inclined to rule that even if the light source is invisible, the area illuminated would be illuminated to all onlookers -- not just the individual exercising this Power. Also, Images have END cost and most likely are not going to be a cheaper build than a special Sense. Still, I was curious if there were any arguments for Invisible Power Effects Images that created illumination exclusively useful to the individual who deploys the Images. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself? Ummm, okay, so the Invisible Girl and Magneto should be built with Movement Powers of some sort. Examples of people with a particular SFX using a particular Power are not at all arguments about tolerating players freeloading an entirely new Power by piggybacking it on an existing Power. Anyone who gets the spirit of the rules should already understand that handing out freebie "power stunts" like this is, at the very most, a way to justify minor abilities emergent from creative roleplaying. Something as useful Flight or Leaping that is not crippled by severe Limitations is not minor in this context. For that matter, I have a strong hunch players arguing for a free Power are also never wellsprings of creative roleplaying. Ultimately the purpose of gaming is to have fun. If your idea of fun is BSing your way into a Power advantage over rival players or non-player entities, then save your friends and the rest of the world some time, download a single player game, type in those cheat codes, and smile as the credits roll past. On the other hand, if you want to actually have fun by the process of playing a game, then play the freakin' game already. When that game happens to involve the HERO System, you definitely are missing the point if you make a habit of arguing your way into capabilities exactly like significant Powers that you did not purchase with Character Points. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself? Just to be thorough, regarding the levitation robot/butterfly swarm Telekinesis SFX, those both could or couldn't also be SFX for Flight, depending on the specifics of how they are defined. If they were defined to include Flight, then buying Flight makes sense. That said, I am also less averse to some compromise positions mentioned here. Under special circumstances I might allow a Telekinesis user some sort of desperation move that amount to hurling him or herself as far as the available amount of TK STR could throw a person with that weight (and with all the other consequences of being thrown.) Also, I could see allowing a middle ground like letting someone use the Skill Power: Telekinesis Tricks to achieve a narrow range of useful results, like using an action to dramatically reduce falling damage or a really feeble aerial movement like 1" Flight with 0 DCV Concentration and/or x10 END cost. Heck, I could even see allowing stuff like that without a Power Skill, but in that case I certainly would treat them as a rare and unreliable things instead of an easily repeatable feats. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself? As a little aside, a red flag went off with this confluence of looking for a loophole to get freebie Flight and having what likely is a Physical Disadvantage (the bum leg) that was worth real points. People who can fly at will should not get points for a Physical Disadvantage related to a walking disability. Also, I agree that if you want to fly or bounce or whatever, do that with a Movement Power rather than trying to fabricate a free form of Movement out of a completely different Power. I get the sense that a few people here are confusing the Power of Telekinesis with the SFX that is their personal concept of how telekinesis ought to work. The Power of Telekinesis could have any SFX from sending out a little radio controlled drone equipped with a tractor beam to spontaneously generating a swarm of load-bearing butterflies. Others are right to claim there is no "how Telekinesis really works" argument to be made, not only because there are no real world telekinetics, but also because the Telekinesis Power is a HERO game mechanic that may or may not have anything at all to do with a particular psychic ability. If you have a clear idea of what a particular character ought to be able to do, then buy all the Powers you need to buy to flesh out that idea. Either you believe it ought to be a particular way strongly enough to pay to make it so, or the additional Power(s) you wanted to use in the game really aren't that important to your concept. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: Weird Talent I know I'm late to this too, but I was just putting together a couple of teams for the heck of it, and I've really enjoyed doing detailed write-ups on Power Skills. It may be a bit cinematic, but then again the ability itself should not be allowed if the idea is to be relentlessly gritty and realistic with the campaign. The cinematic suggestion I offer is something like the Skill "Power: Intimidate Reality." It would presume that the character would other have a distinctly superhuman PRE Characteristic or some sort of relevant Mental Power. Then it would extend to specialized applications of that superhuman ability for all manner of little "stunts" just like described in the original post. Power Skills are becoming one of my favorite innovations from when I last played in the Big Blue Book era and today with 5ER. This just seems like a perfect application for one, provided that there is an underlying superpower to justify it. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: Humorous: Broken arithmetic in system. Ladies and gentlemen, I believe we have a textbook example of a straw man. The system as Stochastic presents it to us is flawed. However, the system as he presents it to us is not the system as it actually exists. There is a clear declaration in black letter law . . . er, um, rule text anyway . . . explaining that those negative symbols are there to indicate that Limitations function as a discount to powers, not to indicate that they are negative numbers. Does someone need to post "Limitation values are not actually negative . . . ever!" in really huge font to convey this point, or is it merely a case of getting enough repetitions to achieve comprehension here? Regards, Brainstorm

Re: Psionic/Mental Combat I think the 4th ed Ultimate Mentalist was the last supplement I bought before moving away from my college RPG group and taking an office job that kept me too busy to indulge the hobby for a few years. Flipping through it, I can confidently echo the sentiment that the book would be an excellent resource for HERO campaigns where mental combat was to be more sophisticated. As for my own experience, I don't recall ever playing with Martial Arts-style skills applicable to Mental Powers, but I could certainly see that as a fun approach especially in a campaign where mental attacks and defenses were common. Still, I would be hesitant to let characters buy bonus Damage Classes for any Powers (in fact, as a GM I don't even let characters buy bonus Damage Classes for Strength unless I am running an Agents-level campaign and they seem appropriate to a specific melee combat style.) Also, I would recommend considering alternate builds for Ego Attack -- Continuous, Autofire, Penetrating, Armor Piercing, Area Effect, et al. make for some variety in attack forms while Extra Time, Increased END Cost, Range Limitations, et al. can reign in the costs (and limit abuse) of whopper attacks. Another idea I like is a Limitation like "usable only against targets with Mental Powers." The actual value should vary from campaign to campaign, as it is much less of a Limitation in a context where most foes will be mentalists than in a campaign where psychic adversaries are few and far between. This could be used to reduce the cost of special attack forms intended only for duels between mentalists or even used to create a partially limited Power that has one Damage Class against non-psychic targets and another against psychics. Another thought -- do not neglect the usefulness of Adjustment Powers in mental combat. While my eponymous character has basic moderate-strength versions of standard Blaster archetype Powers (EB, RKA, Flying, and Armor) against foes impervious to his mediocre conventional Powers he tends to lurk behind exotic defenses and perform Drain vs. EGO until the target is prepped for EGO Attack or Mind Control. Given a Mentalist-themed campaign, I might even be inclined to discount BOECV Advantages applied to Drains, EBs, and perhaps even RKAs (although I would still require additional cost to restore Body damage to attacks with that capability.) Although the HERO System does have a focus on physical combat, I believe it still is rich with both balance and diversity when it comes to building Mental Powers. They simply require more creativity and perhaps also some GM leniency, particularly in campaigns where they are intended to be less exotic than they tend to be in standard fantasy/sci-fi/comic book settings. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: New Skill: Artistic Skills I wouldn't have a problem with Professional Skills or Knowledge Skills by another name. Yet I do like the existing approach because the emphasis is clear. Someone with PS: Caligraphy is capable of producing elaborate decorative text, presumably in a variety of forms; but he might have spotty knowledge about the history of caligraphy, significant handwritten volumes, past masters of the craft, etc. On the other hand, KS: Caligraphy implies a wealth of that sort of knowledge but at best an unreliable ability to actually produce text in that style. The same would be true for sculpture, painting, music, and so on. That said, I think Artistic Skills would make nice hybrids like Science Skills. SS is a blending of PS and KS because the actual practice of science requires command of a robust body of knowledge in addition to expertise with various techniques and tools. AS: Painting would represent a more even balance between knowledge of practical techniques and understanding of art history. There could even be an "Artist" Skill Enhancer to decrease the expense of learning many different artforms. I think this would be a good thing for character development, although in its absence I would still tend to let characters with an artistic KS make attempts to practice that artform with a moderate penalty and those with an artistic PS use that with a slight penalty in art history or art appreciation situations. Of course, KS and PS of the same art are sensible Complimentary Skills, and if I were playing with Artistic Skills then I would also allow them to be supportive of related Skills. Regards, Brainstorm Regards, Brainstorm

Re: Help, the car hit the character! If this was a Normal vs. SUV situation, I say that falls under the common Truly Stupid Move House Rule. Smash the character up good or kill him outright at GM's discretion. On the other hand, if we are talking about a superhero, the Move Through maneuver is a great mechanic for the "comic book" physics of a brick trying to stop a moving car in its tracks. Assuming the drivers were not intent on avoiding the collision, I would not require a roll to hit (after all, presumably the hero would move to intercept, so it is a consensual act where only mutual clumsiness would result in a miss.) As far as the effects, I would treat it as a Move Through attack by the vehicle against the humanoid obstruction. This would be normal damage where the Damage Class was a function of vehicular STR (if not printed, setimate based on carrying capacity of the vehicle,) and velocity (every 1" of Movement adding another +1d6 of normal damage.) In other words, an SUV travelling at high speed really would make a Normal go splat far more often than not. However, half of the damage rebounds to the attacker, or in this case the vehicle. Running over a soft target I would limit reflected damage to the amount of BODY + PD in the victim, but a lucky or tough brick hero could bounce off the SUV while leaving it heavily damaged, and a brick who was either lucky and tough or very high powered might indeed hold his ground while the vehicle crumpled around him. Also, I believe Clinging and Knockback Resistance have parts to play in all this -- they might not be as useful as various forms of Physical Defense, but they would help clinch the "stand your ground" outcome when a brick does try behave like a tree in front of a car. Regards, Brainstorm P.S. Or in other words . . . "me three."

Re: Dual Multipowers As I think about this I am inclined to second the suggestion about making the Focus Inaccessible. This could represent two guns and allow attacks at full strength, even with Rapid Fire (though not Two Weapon Fighting) after one has gone missing. As an alternative, if the GM approves, it should be possible to pump up the Power a bit and then take a special OAF at -3/4 that would cause the power to diminish (presumably by half,) if one gun is taken. The main advantage of this approach is that it really simulates the "two guns, both able to be Grabbed" approach whereas OIF simulates "at least two guns, with the character always able to keep control of one while conscious and mobile." Still, the OIF route would let you stipulate that your character was bristling with guns (if 2 is cool, imagine 20! ) or that your character simply walks around with enough "hold-out" weapons concealed in various places that only a thorough search could truly leave him disarmed. Two Weapon Fighting and Rapid Attack are an excellent combination, yet it seems like duplicating the Multipower outright would be overkill. On the one hand, it does seem viable to perform a Multiple Power Attack with one slot from each of dual Multipowers, but that would only be effective against one target. On the other hand, there seems to be a logical contradtiction in making a Multiple Power Attack that represents the use of two identical weapons and piling on with Two Weapon Fighting/Rapid Fire on top of that. Also, it seems like in any game without sky high limits, 46 points could buy all sorts of cool things that would collectively outweigh actually buying the same gun twice. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: Tony Donuts This seems like both the basis for a Persistent Power (Drain making good sense) but also a Social Limitation. PRE and EGO seem like the main things to drain since they are the main source of resistance to manipulation. However, I think it is also grounds for a Social Disadvantage. After all, if most people are intimidated simply by being near the character, then certain types of interactions do become much more problematic. I would say that a strong menacing aura of violence is worth at least as much as the ex-convict status, along with similar consequences. Regards, Brainstorm