Brainstorm

Re: What is STUN? What a cool discussion this is. As I was reviewing the thread, it occurs to me that people are right to point out that there are a huge variety of different phenomena that can inflict STUN damage. However, I do not believe it follows from this that STUN fails to be either useful or, for lack of a better term, "realistic." The trick is not to fall into this "stun is how much of a beating you've taken" and view it more abstractly as a general state of mind. So we start from this game definition that STUN is a status indicator. The current STUN of a character informs us if that character is incapacitated by (typically) fleeting effects. The concussion of a brick to the noggin could be such an effect; but so could the disorientation caused by a vertigo-themed villain's EGO Attack, discomfort inflicted by a heat-based Energy Blast, or even the gagging prompted by being in the radius of a Side Effect defined as a emitting a staggeringly noxious odor. So the STUN Characteristic is really a measure of how much ??? a character can take, where ??? is a broad set of phenomena. The unifying element is merely an ability to incapacitate without necessarily inflicting grave bodily harm. The complexities can be daunting. For example, a tear gas grenade could inflict STUN damage, yet robots have STUN and should be immune to the SFX of any conventionally defined "tear gas grenade" power. Yet that sort of complexity is misleading -- robot STUN and human STUN are both measures of ability to resist incapacitation. It remains an "apples to apples" comparison even though quirks of origin, SFX, etc. create variations in susceptibility to various forms of damage between humans and robots. STUN becomes a little easier to get a grip on when thinking about how these phenomena can accumulate. Perhaps a given character could just shrug off getting struck by a club or getting stuck with a tranquilizer dart or being hit with an EGO attack, but the concussion plus the drug plus the bad psychic vibes together produce a debilitating state. Also, be open minded about the roleplaying aspect of this. Negative STUN need not mean that a character is literally knocked out. Perhaps a character incapacitated by a magical swarm of insects is too busy swatting, screaming, and scratching to communicate or take other action. Perhaps a strong fear-based EGO Attack leaves a character paralyzed with terror, unable to speak or act. A cloud of poison gas could incapacitate a character by forcing him or her to do nothing but stagger and choke until sufficiently recovered from exposure. Yes, in the end, STUN is a mechanic that serves the purpose of upholding game balance while also supporting non-lethal forms of combat. As I see it, STUN damage is a broad set of phenomena including pretty much anything with the capacity to take a character out of action on a temporary basis. By extension, the STUN Characteristic is a measure of a character's ability to resist being overwhelmed by trauma, including both the trauma of serious injury (Killing Attacks normally do inflict STUN damage) and the trauma of severe distress (i.e. anything else that inflicts STUN damage.) Regards, Brainstorm

Re: A way to late idea for Ultimate Mentalist I was just thinking, one way to avoid imposition of a Mentalist archetype would simply be to create a faction or group that did impose this sort of "use Powers only with consent or when absolutely necessary to protect the innocent" standard of behavior. There is nothing wrong with a campaign where Mentalists typically see themselves as superior to other beings, but there is also nothing wrong with a campaign where Mentalists typically see themselves as controversial or unpopular figures who must be extremely ethical to avoid ostracism or open warfare. Heck, one could even take an approach some have used with vampires -- establish that Mentalists must be pathologically secretive about their true nature for fear of public backlash from the entire rest of the world. Still, to avoid controversey it may make more sense simply to establish a subset or faction that upholds a particular code of conduct, or even make it a personal code. In terms of a character sheet, it could even be as simple as adding a modifier. "Honorable Mentalists' Code" or "Benign Mentalists' Code" to be clear about the nature of the Disadvantage. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: Inverse Find Weakness I think the right approach to this would be to build partially restricted defenses. Activation or Requires a Skill Roll would make it possible to have defenses that only worked some of the time, perhaps even according to a coherent system. It may not be quite the same as a new Power, but it would reflect situations like a Force Field that works better when attuned specifically for the attack(s) presently directed at it or even some sort of armored suit that provides better protection when the wearer makes smart choices about orientation and posture relative to attacker(s). In fact, these additional defenses could even be connected with other Limitations like Extra Time or Concentration to reflect the process of adapting defenses or deploying countermeasures as the original post seems to suggest. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: A Question Of Marriage I laughed out loud at some of these interpretations. I've never been married myself, and only recently come to know anyone who inspires me to view the institution in a positive light. Yet it is in that positive light that I suggest this -- marriage is adding a new PC to the group. Only that approach reaches the right levels of significance and originality (and only that approach creates an individual who is never reduced to a prop or backdrop.) Besides which, what kind of newlyweds don't want to see each other wearing ? Most of the comments about Perks and Disadvantages had the ring of truth. However, I heartily recommend if anyone discusses this with a significant other, suggesting my approach. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: Total Darkness Sight Normal Sight gets free modifiers for being in the Sight Group. However, it is pretty common with 5ER's Darkness to buy it against the Sight Group. Thus it makes sense to build something more expensive than Sight in exchange for being able to work with the Unusual Sense Group (a.k.a. the "not really a group" Group.) Basically, someone would have to specifically build their Darkness to inhibit your Sense in order for it to be effective. If the idea that this could also pierce smoke, fog, et al. is problematic (and considering the modest intention of this Power in the first place,) I think a fair GM would offer a decent value to the "only in darkness" Limitation (which would still make the Power good for night vision) or a high value for an "only in darkness-based Darkness" Limitation (which would make it nothing more than an antidote to a single form of Darkness Power.) However, I chimed in on this thread in part because I had a funny thought when I first read the original post. Would it be possible to make Images with Invisible Power Effects? The idea would be to implement Images as a light source, then add that advantage so that others could not see the light. I'm inclined to rule that even if the light source is invisible, the area illuminated would be illuminated to all onlookers -- not just the individual exercising this Power. Also, Images have END cost and most likely are not going to be a cheaper build than a special Sense. Still, I was curious if there were any arguments for Invisible Power Effects Images that created illumination exclusively useful to the individual who deploys the Images. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself? Ummm, okay, so the Invisible Girl and Magneto should be built with Movement Powers of some sort. Examples of people with a particular SFX using a particular Power are not at all arguments about tolerating players freeloading an entirely new Power by piggybacking it on an existing Power. Anyone who gets the spirit of the rules should already understand that handing out freebie "power stunts" like this is, at the very most, a way to justify minor abilities emergent from creative roleplaying. Something as useful Flight or Leaping that is not crippled by severe Limitations is not minor in this context. For that matter, I have a strong hunch players arguing for a free Power are also never wellsprings of creative roleplaying. Ultimately the purpose of gaming is to have fun. If your idea of fun is BSing your way into a Power advantage over rival players or non-player entities, then save your friends and the rest of the world some time, download a single player game, type in those cheat codes, and smile as the credits roll past. On the other hand, if you want to actually have fun by the process of playing a game, then play the freakin' game already. When that game happens to involve the HERO System, you definitely are missing the point if you make a habit of arguing your way into capabilities exactly like significant Powers that you did not purchase with Character Points. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself? Just to be thorough, regarding the levitation robot/butterfly swarm Telekinesis SFX, those both could or couldn't also be SFX for Flight, depending on the specifics of how they are defined. If they were defined to include Flight, then buying Flight makes sense. That said, I am also less averse to some compromise positions mentioned here. Under special circumstances I might allow a Telekinesis user some sort of desperation move that amount to hurling him or herself as far as the available amount of TK STR could throw a person with that weight (and with all the other consequences of being thrown.) Also, I could see allowing a middle ground like letting someone use the Skill Power: Telekinesis Tricks to achieve a narrow range of useful results, like using an action to dramatically reduce falling damage or a really feeble aerial movement like 1" Flight with 0 DCV Concentration and/or x10 END cost. Heck, I could even see allowing stuff like that without a Power Skill, but in that case I certainly would treat them as a rare and unreliable things instead of an easily repeatable feats. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself? As a little aside, a red flag went off with this confluence of looking for a loophole to get freebie Flight and having what likely is a Physical Disadvantage (the bum leg) that was worth real points. People who can fly at will should not get points for a Physical Disadvantage related to a walking disability. Also, I agree that if you want to fly or bounce or whatever, do that with a Movement Power rather than trying to fabricate a free form of Movement out of a completely different Power. I get the sense that a few people here are confusing the Power of Telekinesis with the SFX that is their personal concept of how telekinesis ought to work. The Power of Telekinesis could have any SFX from sending out a little radio controlled drone equipped with a tractor beam to spontaneously generating a swarm of load-bearing butterflies. Others are right to claim there is no "how Telekinesis really works" argument to be made, not only because there are no real world telekinetics, but also because the Telekinesis Power is a HERO game mechanic that may or may not have anything at all to do with a particular psychic ability. If you have a clear idea of what a particular character ought to be able to do, then buy all the Powers you need to buy to flesh out that idea. Either you believe it ought to be a particular way strongly enough to pay to make it so, or the additional Power(s) you wanted to use in the game really aren't that important to your concept. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: Weird Talent I know I'm late to this too, but I was just putting together a couple of teams for the heck of it, and I've really enjoyed doing detailed write-ups on Power Skills. It may be a bit cinematic, but then again the ability itself should not be allowed if the idea is to be relentlessly gritty and realistic with the campaign. The cinematic suggestion I offer is something like the Skill "Power: Intimidate Reality." It would presume that the character would other have a distinctly superhuman PRE Characteristic or some sort of relevant Mental Power. Then it would extend to specialized applications of that superhuman ability for all manner of little "stunts" just like described in the original post. Power Skills are becoming one of my favorite innovations from when I last played in the Big Blue Book era and today with 5ER. This just seems like a perfect application for one, provided that there is an underlying superpower to justify it. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: Humorous: Broken arithmetic in system. Ladies and gentlemen, I believe we have a textbook example of a straw man. The system as Stochastic presents it to us is flawed. However, the system as he presents it to us is not the system as it actually exists. There is a clear declaration in black letter law . . . er, um, rule text anyway . . . explaining that those negative symbols are there to indicate that Limitations function as a discount to powers, not to indicate that they are negative numbers. Does someone need to post "Limitation values are not actually negative . . . ever!" in really huge font to convey this point, or is it merely a case of getting enough repetitions to achieve comprehension here? Regards, Brainstorm

Re: Psionic/Mental Combat I think the 4th ed Ultimate Mentalist was the last supplement I bought before moving away from my college RPG group and taking an office job that kept me too busy to indulge the hobby for a few years. Flipping through it, I can confidently echo the sentiment that the book would be an excellent resource for HERO campaigns where mental combat was to be more sophisticated. As for my own experience, I don't recall ever playing with Martial Arts-style skills applicable to Mental Powers, but I could certainly see that as a fun approach especially in a campaign where mental attacks and defenses were common. Still, I would be hesitant to let characters buy bonus Damage Classes for any Powers (in fact, as a GM I don't even let characters buy bonus Damage Classes for Strength unless I am running an Agents-level campaign and they seem appropriate to a specific melee combat style.) Also, I would recommend considering alternate builds for Ego Attack -- Continuous, Autofire, Penetrating, Armor Piercing, Area Effect, et al. make for some variety in attack forms while Extra Time, Increased END Cost, Range Limitations, et al. can reign in the costs (and limit abuse) of whopper attacks. Another idea I like is a Limitation like "usable only against targets with Mental Powers." The actual value should vary from campaign to campaign, as it is much less of a Limitation in a context where most foes will be mentalists than in a campaign where psychic adversaries are few and far between. This could be used to reduce the cost of special attack forms intended only for duels between mentalists or even used to create a partially limited Power that has one Damage Class against non-psychic targets and another against psychics. Another thought -- do not neglect the usefulness of Adjustment Powers in mental combat. While my eponymous character has basic moderate-strength versions of standard Blaster archetype Powers (EB, RKA, Flying, and Armor) against foes impervious to his mediocre conventional Powers he tends to lurk behind exotic defenses and perform Drain vs. EGO until the target is prepped for EGO Attack or Mind Control. Given a Mentalist-themed campaign, I might even be inclined to discount BOECV Advantages applied to Drains, EBs, and perhaps even RKAs (although I would still require additional cost to restore Body damage to attacks with that capability.) Although the HERO System does have a focus on physical combat, I believe it still is rich with both balance and diversity when it comes to building Mental Powers. They simply require more creativity and perhaps also some GM leniency, particularly in campaigns where they are intended to be less exotic than they tend to be in standard fantasy/sci-fi/comic book settings. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: New Skill: Artistic Skills I wouldn't have a problem with Professional Skills or Knowledge Skills by another name. Yet I do like the existing approach because the emphasis is clear. Someone with PS: Caligraphy is capable of producing elaborate decorative text, presumably in a variety of forms; but he might have spotty knowledge about the history of caligraphy, significant handwritten volumes, past masters of the craft, etc. On the other hand, KS: Caligraphy implies a wealth of that sort of knowledge but at best an unreliable ability to actually produce text in that style. The same would be true for sculpture, painting, music, and so on. That said, I think Artistic Skills would make nice hybrids like Science Skills. SS is a blending of PS and KS because the actual practice of science requires command of a robust body of knowledge in addition to expertise with various techniques and tools. AS: Painting would represent a more even balance between knowledge of practical techniques and understanding of art history. There could even be an "Artist" Skill Enhancer to decrease the expense of learning many different artforms. I think this would be a good thing for character development, although in its absence I would still tend to let characters with an artistic KS make attempts to practice that artform with a moderate penalty and those with an artistic PS use that with a slight penalty in art history or art appreciation situations. Of course, KS and PS of the same art are sensible Complimentary Skills, and if I were playing with Artistic Skills then I would also allow them to be supportive of related Skills. Regards, Brainstorm Regards, Brainstorm

Re: Help, the car hit the character! If this was a Normal vs. SUV situation, I say that falls under the common Truly Stupid Move House Rule. Smash the character up good or kill him outright at GM's discretion. On the other hand, if we are talking about a superhero, the Move Through maneuver is a great mechanic for the "comic book" physics of a brick trying to stop a moving car in its tracks. Assuming the drivers were not intent on avoiding the collision, I would not require a roll to hit (after all, presumably the hero would move to intercept, so it is a consensual act where only mutual clumsiness would result in a miss.) As far as the effects, I would treat it as a Move Through attack by the vehicle against the humanoid obstruction. This would be normal damage where the Damage Class was a function of vehicular STR (if not printed, setimate based on carrying capacity of the vehicle,) and velocity (every 1" of Movement adding another +1d6 of normal damage.) In other words, an SUV travelling at high speed really would make a Normal go splat far more often than not. However, half of the damage rebounds to the attacker, or in this case the vehicle. Running over a soft target I would limit reflected damage to the amount of BODY + PD in the victim, but a lucky or tough brick hero could bounce off the SUV while leaving it heavily damaged, and a brick who was either lucky and tough or very high powered might indeed hold his ground while the vehicle crumpled around him. Also, I believe Clinging and Knockback Resistance have parts to play in all this -- they might not be as useful as various forms of Physical Defense, but they would help clinch the "stand your ground" outcome when a brick does try behave like a tree in front of a car. Regards, Brainstorm P.S. Or in other words . . . "me three."

Re: Dual Multipowers As I think about this I am inclined to second the suggestion about making the Focus Inaccessible. This could represent two guns and allow attacks at full strength, even with Rapid Fire (though not Two Weapon Fighting) after one has gone missing. As an alternative, if the GM approves, it should be possible to pump up the Power a bit and then take a special OAF at -3/4 that would cause the power to diminish (presumably by half,) if one gun is taken. The main advantage of this approach is that it really simulates the "two guns, both able to be Grabbed" approach whereas OIF simulates "at least two guns, with the character always able to keep control of one while conscious and mobile." Still, the OIF route would let you stipulate that your character was bristling with guns (if 2 is cool, imagine 20! ) or that your character simply walks around with enough "hold-out" weapons concealed in various places that only a thorough search could truly leave him disarmed. Two Weapon Fighting and Rapid Attack are an excellent combination, yet it seems like duplicating the Multipower outright would be overkill. On the one hand, it does seem viable to perform a Multiple Power Attack with one slot from each of dual Multipowers, but that would only be effective against one target. On the other hand, there seems to be a logical contradtiction in making a Multiple Power Attack that represents the use of two identical weapons and piling on with Two Weapon Fighting/Rapid Fire on top of that. Also, it seems like in any game without sky high limits, 46 points could buy all sorts of cool things that would collectively outweigh actually buying the same gun twice. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: Tony Donuts This seems like both the basis for a Persistent Power (Drain making good sense) but also a Social Limitation. PRE and EGO seem like the main things to drain since they are the main source of resistance to manipulation. However, I think it is also grounds for a Social Disadvantage. After all, if most people are intimidated simply by being near the character, then certain types of interactions do become much more problematic. I would say that a strong menacing aura of violence is worth at least as much as the ex-convict status, along with similar consequences. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: How many Power Skills? There seems to be some misconception about what Power Skill actually is. The official text is extremely clear that it is not to be a source of free Advantages nor a ludicrously cheap VPP. Some of the ambiguity seems to come from the fact that there is a quasi-exploit available in character builds that employ a diverse assortment of SFX. In most situations where the Power Skill would be relevant, either characters will by nature depend on a single SFX for the bulk of their Powers (a stock Fantasy Hero wizard, for example,) or be rewarded for having a coherent concept SFX-wise (superheroes built with certain Frameworks.) In theory, and perhaps in the practice of some campaigns, building a character whose powers feature a hodgepodge of diverse SFX actually is no more costly than building a statistically identical character with more tightly related SFX. Where allowed this constitutes a mild exploit because of the way each SFX carries with it an assortment of minor applications that may be genuinely useful even if not so much so as to warrant purchase as seperate Powers. Incentives for coherent character builds not only promote real thought about concept as an alternative to building solely on the basis of maximum combat effectiveness, but they also reflect how a character with tight SFX has much less in the way of incidental SFX abilities than a character with a broad mix of SFX. The actual Powers are virtually irrelevant here. If Megabalrog and Kandle Kid both take a Fiery Feats Power Skill, then they both get pretty much the same thing for those three points. It doesn't matter that Megabalrog can incenerate a city block with his 10D6 Area Effect RKA and Kandle Kid might not even leave a mark lashing out with his 2D6 EB. It does not matter that Megabalrog has twenty-eight fire-based Powers while Kandle Kid has just the one. What they get with the Power Skill is not a VPP or freebie Advantages -- what they get is the ability to be more precise, impressive, stylish, etc. in the minor incidental applications of the fire SFX. Both of them could warm up a room or ignite a bonfire without any regard to Power Skill at all. However, if Kandle Kid had it and Megabalrog did not, then perhaps the Kid would be able to light a cigarette without burning a smoker's face or precisely brand a symbol into a piece of wood, while Megabalrog would unable to control fire with such subtlety. There are even some circumstances where this Skill could be truly useful rather than stylish. Imagine, as an example, that a vial containing a culture of some fantastically deadly disease were to shatter atop huge block of volatile high explosive material. The culture must be incinerated before anyone is infected, but it cannot be handled and it is right on top of enough incendiary material to kill plenty of neighborhood bystanders. Megabalrog may have no Limitations on any of his Powers, and may well have it within his ability to throw a 1 pip RKA with extraordinary OCV. On the other hand, Kandle Kid is comparatively inaccurate when it comes to attacks, but his Power Skill does allow him to direct fire with pinpoint accuracy when he has the time to focus on a non-combat application. I may be better off with the absurdly strong and richly diverse Powers of Megabalrog on my side when facing down an army of rabid werewolves, but Kandle Kid becomes the guy I want on my side if I am looking to survive the "level 5 biohazard perched atop an explosives stockpile" deathtrap. Of course, Megabalrog could purchase Fiery Feats for the same cost as Kandle Kid did, and the more powerful character may even get more bang for his buck in terms of being able to scorch patterns into a few acres of grass as well as branding small objects, for example. However, and this is the key consideration, 5ER deliberately does not use the capital P in "one of his powers or abilities," because Power Skill is not about enhancing Powers but rather about finessing powers. As a GM I would let the nature and magnitude of Powers inform judgements about what is and is not possible through the use of Power Skill. However, I would not make the clear mistake of allowing it to provide significant performance enhancements to Powers that should instead be enhanced by actually buying the appropriate Advantages, extra AP, Combat Skill Levels, etc. Brick Tricks is not a bonus Damage Class for less than the cost of 5 points of STR, nor is it a cheap way for someone to make his HTH-Attacks Penetrating. It is just a way to do more fancy or fun or creative little things with the traditional strength and resilience of the brick archetype. I suppose I could see some flexibility in letting a player define a Power Skill appropriate to his character even with a fair degree of diversity in SFX. However, there are definitely limits to what I mean when I say "fair degree." If I had a campaign where one mutant superhero bought a Power Skill just for stunts based on his metahuman electrical abilities, I certainly would not allow a spellcasting elementalist in the same campaign to buy one Power Skill and apply it across the board to fire and ice and lightning. If we found ourselves in play with that imbalance, and it was a source of real tension in the group, I might well intervene to make the elementalist pick a speciality or purchase two more Power Skills or even define his Power Skill in a way that it was about the exercise of magic itself (an assortment of cantrip-like effects and if that was not sufficiently useful perhaps something like allowing the occassional Skill Roll to hold Concentration through a normally distracting event.) Regarding the FFF example, my inclination would be to require three Power Skills for doing little tricks with force fields, magic items, and gadgets. Yet I suspect a player who made a big stink about the contrary position would be inclined to spend the points elsewhere when informed that I would not allow a Power Skill to substitute for much more costly Advantages nor simulate new Powers of any significant magnitude. In fact, with the write up for Brainstorm excerpted earlier in the thread, I debated how to handle it since the character combines storm-themed Powers with some more generic Mental Powers. In the end I wrote Storm Stunts to do some Telekinesis-like things since that capability was clearly based on controlling wind and creating little cyclones to generate lift. Yet I did not let it apply to any tricks resembling Ego Attack, Telepathy, EGO Drain, or Mind Control because those Powers, even if they may manifest clouds or breezes when in use, are only superficially connected to the "human thunderstorm" SFX. Ultimately, the Power Skill was about finesse in the control of wind, precipitation, and lightning -- a reasonably tight SFX group from my perspective. If I wanted the same level of stylish/fun/creative control over the other chief aspect of his metahuman abilities, I would have made up and added something like a Mentalist Maneuvers Power Skill. Also, it is again worth noting that even without the Power Skill, many minor effects can be achieved simply by exerting the power (note the small p) associated with a particular SFX. Perhaps the best way to understand it is by comparison to another Skill like Oratory or Climbing. Any unimpaired Normal can make a speech to a crowd or climb over a chain link fence. Yet with the right sort of training/experience, it becomes possible to deliver a truly stirring speech or scale a much more challenging barrier. Power Skill represents the application of that sort of expertise to the utilization of SFX-related abilities. Any superhero who can conjure up shards of ice at will ought to have an SFX useful for cooling objects. Yet the precision Power Skill offers might make the difference between chilling a drink to the perfect temperature or serving party guests solidified beverages. Likewise, a sufficiently powerful laser rifle should have no trouble cutting through common building materials, but Power Skill may be just the thing for a gunslinger who likes to carve his detailed personal emblem into a wall at the end of any significant battle. In any case, I've already rambled on at length. Hopefully this will shed more light on why I agree with the "FFF could buy three different Power Skills" people and in general how I interpret this interesting little feature of the Hero System. Regards, Brainstorm P.S. As long as I wrote all that, I thought I might also directly and succinctly answer the question of the moment . . . Power Skill is irrelevant to that question. It is far less about the modification of built Powers than it is about the exercise of minor incidental capabilities derivative of SFX. If you want to modify a Power, then change the way that Power is built. If you want to get fancy with SFX themselves, that is when Power Skill is the right way to go.

Re: How many Power Skills? I am inclined to disagree with this . . . Given how strictly edited the text is, I'm confident the "one of his powers or abilities" refers to a coherent SFX. Magic is then offered as an example, along with Prayer to imply a special sort of magic that nonetheless could encompass many Powers. Brick Tricks is another example that focuses on something coherent. I believe there is a good reason some musclebound titan might be able to apply one Power Skill to creative applications of huge STR, high PD/ED, Hand-to-Hand Attacks, etc. yet not be able to apply it to a Heat Vision RKA or a Magical Cloak of Invisibility. Given one coherent special effect, the plausible applications of a Power Skill will be essentially the same. A Fancy Fire Power Skill will do what it does regardless of whether the user has a single basic fire-based RKA or a dozen fiery forms of attack with even more non-attack fire-based Powers. The Power Skill is about what can be done with a coherent special ability. On the other hand a bogus All My Stuff is Cool Power Skill bought for a character with some cold-based Powers, some psychic Powers, a suit of high tech armor, and knowledge of a few magic Powers would enable cold tricks and psychic tricks and armored dude tricks and magic tricks all at once. Because the nature of what a Power Skill can actually do is derivative of SFX, it seems entirely sensible to apply them in such a manner. I would not deny that a loose SFX can be appropriate for a Power Skill, but developing exceptional finesse with all aspects of a build that truly features multiple distinct SFX should require multiple Power Skills. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: How many Power Skills? I always thought that Power Skill was basically a style thing rather than a "significant new capabilities thing." For example, here is the write-up (I'm fond of writing the hell out of any characters I use as a player or intend for recurring roles in a campaign) of the Power Skill for my eponymous character . . . Brainstorm spends an inordinate amount of his spare time tinkering with playful and/or stylish applications of his powers. For example, it requires real exertion for him to muster significant telekinetic strength; but a fleeting thought is enough for him to conjure up a brief gust of wind, scattering a stack of papers or lifting a lady's skirt. He has also been known to create spontaneous rain showers suitable for drenching subjects who are not particularly evasive. While a real exercise of his power is required to do any damage with electrical phenomena, Brainstorm can effortlessly command low intensity electric arcs to dance over his body or wander through the surrounding area. He can even produce harmless little charges of static electricity at will, delivering just enough current to produce a momentary crackle and a shocking touch. Such phenomena tend to occur unpredictably in conjunction with serious exercises of his powers, yet this skill gives him the ability to command them seperately or assert more control over those that spin off from power utilization. For example, while Ride the Winds and Flowing Form rarely produce more than strong breezes or small puffs of fog respectively, Brainstorm may accentuate either power to surround himself in a mass of turbulent dark clouds flickering sporadically with internal electrical activity. In some cases these tricks are automatic (conjuring a handful of ice pellets, causing a visible spark to leap from his hand) while in others it is a real test of skill to produce precise results (producing a small ice sculpture, safely restoring some charge to a depleted battery.) I think that final sentence nicely represents just what a Power Skill is. I believe anyone with "human thunderstorm powers" should be able to zing someone nearby with a non-damaging static charge or conjure up a handful of ordinary hailstones. This is a logical interpretation of the rules on incidental applications of superpower SFX. What Power Skill does is enable a level of finesse demonstrating expertise in these cantrip-like actions. If I succeed in a Storm Stunts (the name of his Power Skill) roll, that enables Brainstorm to do more impressive stuff like spelling out a word in puffs of fog or making an electric light flicker momentarily. I think it goes too far to employ Power Skill as a way to get free advantages (Usable By Others, Indirect, etc.) applied to significant Powers. In that previous post, only the KB-only rocket blast seems plausible, and even then I would be inclined to make it a very mild attack rather than based on the full Active Points in the Flight Power on which it is based. Clearly minor SFX applications can rise to the level of Power emulation, since official text even provides an example of fire-based Powers justifying free Life Support vs. Intense Cold. Yet it also specifically declares that these should be minor and that any major benefits must be bought as Advantages. I suppose Power Skill might shift the line between minor and major somewhat, but I still would not be inclined to allow it to justify whipping up unpurchased Advantages on demand. In fact, the 5ER text for Power Skill expressly states . . . Power isn’t a cheap substitute for a Variable Power Pool, and shouldn’t be used as one. Characters shouldn’t use Power to provide Advantages for their Powers or to overcome Limitations (except in rare circumstances), nor should it provide bonuses in combat. I think Power Skill has plenty of potential for amusing roleplaying and it certainly could justify bonuses to Interactions or even PRE Attacks. Also, it seems like it ought to enhance the utility of minor SFX-based abilities, but certainly not to the extent of providing a cheap alternative to the purchase of actual Power Modifiers. On the other hand, as far as applicability goes, I consider Power Skill to be applicable to all of a character's Powers provided that there is some commonality in their SFX. A wizard who also happens to tote around some space alien's disintegrator ray gun should not be able to incorporate both into one Power Skill, but a wizard with many spells or an alien with many gadgets should be able to address them all with a single Power Skill. However, I believe any effort to build a character with the flexibility to pile real Advantages on top of Powers or simulate major new Powers through the creative use of existing Powers ought to go ahead and buy a VPP with some Limitation like "Only for modifying existing Powers" or "Only for performing plausible Power stunts." Anything less would feel like an attempted exploit to me. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: Question: Movement 'Trick' As long as I'm tossing out GMish thoughts tonight, here's my take on this situation. It seems to me that the only issue here is whether or not Flight remains "turned on." A character with an active Flight Power should not fall even if he does not engage in any Movement. Of course, the 1 END per Phase cost for hovering still applies, as it would if a character tried to change clothes or perform some other Full Phase action while aloft. It seems to me the falling issue only pops up if Flight has to be turned off, perhaps to activate some mutually exclusive Multipower slot. Even then, it should be possible to Teleport as a Half Move, turn off Teleport as a Zero Phase Action, turn on Flight as a Zero Phase Action, and perform another ½ Phase Action which may or may not be a Flight Half Move. Heck, it should even be possible to turn on Flight as a Zero Phase Action after a Full Move Teleport, provided that no other Power went from turned off to turned on during that Phase. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: The "Make Over" adder It also appears on 5ER 217-218, between the comment on Instant Change and the paragraph about Usable On Others. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: "Brick Trick" Most of my supplements are at least 10 years old, but 5ER gives me the sense that Brick Tricks is one form of the Power Skill (a Skill all about showcasing superhuman abilities.) I'm not sure what "Mind Control vs PRE, Requires a Reputation Roll or violent action?" means, but the next line makes me think we're talking about getting bonuses to influence through displays of superhuman abilities. When it comes to Mind Control, I am inclined against allowing any such bonuses. Intimidating a subject should not make hypnosis/mesmerism easier, and in some cases it may create a negative modifier if the subject's attitude is shifted from neutral to hostile regarding the Mind Control user and his associates. I probably would not penalize for the distress itself, but certainly Mind Control is less likely to gain the cooperation of a hostile subject than a complete stranger. After all, the Effect Roll required is a direct reflection of how much the target would mind fulfilling requests/obeying commands issued in the exercise of Mind Control. On the other hand, PRE attacks are perfectly suited to intimidation. Here the main concern is consistency. Before I'd ever heard of Brick Tricks or any other Power Skill variation, I would allow a stock +1d6 to PRE attacks whenever a superheroic character described a non-lame way of flaunting some Power in conjunction with the PRE attack. Taking a fresh look at the Presence Attack Modifiers Table, I see all sorts of potentially relevant bonuses, including one or two dice for an Interaction Skill success and as many as three dice for a violent action. I suppose the way I would handle it today would be to let someone make a Brick Tricks Skill Roll with the understanding that ther display of Power bonus would be lost on a failure but doubled (i.e. +2d6) for "success by half or more" (i.e. rolling half or less than the target.) As far as the violence bonus, that would depend on just how violent the actual Brick Trick was. Bending a lamppost in half is impressive, but such vandalism is barely violent at all. On the other hand, hurling a parked car into a crowd of bystanders might qualify for the +3d6 "Incredibly Violent" bonus, albeit with some serious negative consequences for characters with heroic reputations. So, to sum things up, I do not see any constructive use for Brick Tricks/the Power Skill in conjunction with Mind Control. I do see how it could qualify as "Exhibiting a Power ..." for purposes of a PRE attack. In fact, since the Power Skill is all about such exhibitions, I could even see going from +1d6 to +2d6 for a really successful effort, with the condition that a failed Skill Roll would botch the exhibition and result in no display bonus at all. As for violence, I could not see granting more than the basic +1d6 for property destruction, and I imagine only villains would want to go for the higher violence bonuses by combining Extremely Violent or Incredibly Violent actions with their PRE attacks. Regards, Demonweed

Re: Making a Force Field Bubble My first thought on this was Personal Immunity, but my copy of 5ER shook its finger at me for having that thought (i.e. that is plainly illegal.) However, I do have a similar idea as an alternative to Indirect. It might be valid to take a 0 value Limitation that made the Force Wall unable to block a specific SFX, then build the character's attacks out of that SFX. Some people might even consider that an Advantage rather than a Limitation, but I would be inclined to let it stand as a 0 value Limitation (since, at the very least, the bubble's ability to allow outgoing attacks of that variety is as significant as its inability to protect against incoming attacks of that type.) While it may seem charitable to allow a Limitation to be used in this way, I would be sure that recurring villains learned to exploit it, thus making it a genuinely balanced rather than some sort no cost Power-enhancing exploit. Depending on the campaign and the character concept, it could be possible to do this without the controversy of a 0 value Limitation. Simply making the Force Wall all PD and using energy-based ranged attacks would accomplish something similar, with the added cost that many more types of attacks could get through but the added benefit that the Power itself would be cheaper for lack of ED. The Force Wall itself could still be used for englobing. Coupled with an ED Force Field, the character would remain viable in combat. Of course, there's nothing wrong with a build that relies on Indirect attacks to get past the wall. I just wanted to toss out some alternatives in case there was a desire to go with a bubble that would permit outgoing attacks with no Advantages. Regards, Brainstorm

Re: Metamorphosis The price complaint does also seem to be a valid point. The utility of Shapeshift varies from campaign to campaign (being mostly window dressing in campaigns where roleplaying consists of brief narrative pauses between combats while it is much more important in campaigns where fighting is the interlude and other interactions dominate the experience.) Yet even in campaigns where subterfuge and social interaction are crucial, it does seem as if Shapeshift in its present form is disproportionately expensive. Extra Time is a reasonable way to bring the cost back down to a sensible level, but Active Points remain problematic (all the moreso for Shapeshifters who don't want maintaining an altered form to be exhausting.) It's just from this thread as well as what I've heard offline, the more popular complaint did seem to be rooted in the misconception that 5th ed. Shapeshift was necessarily illusory rather than actual physical change. However, I certainly grant that 35 AP for Power-based Mimicry (Non-Targeting Sense, Any Shape, Imitation) is extremely high, particularly considering it also costs 3 END to deliver a few lines in a voice thus altered. Likewise, the generic builds in 5ER's sidebar feel pretty heavy cost-wise. As I look things over, I think a simple House Rule fix would be to stipulate that Shapeshift has no END cost (thus making it only kinda expensive to build Powers that enable indefinite maintenance of an altered form and almost reasonable to take a "Costs END" Shapeshift.) I still do like the idea of purchasing different elements of the Power individually and I like the way the existing Adders are written, but ultimately I agree that this largely cosmetic Power should be priced in a way that recognizes its limited utility in spite of however much coolness some people (including myself) believe it has. Personally, I happen to think Shapeshifting is a fun roleplaying device that is difficult to exploit in campaigns where everyone understands it has no effect on Powers or other abilities (except COM.) With that in mind, it seems that a cheap Shapeshift Power would be good for the system insofar as one might wish to encourage other aspects of roleplaying and discourage character building that neglects any serious non-combat considerations. Regards, Brainstorm P.S. As far as the 10' ladder debate goes, I might take issue with that based on the idea that Shapeshifting should not provide free Stretching. Yet I have been known to allow something like Shapeshifting into a form with a much larger than 6' wingspan (since I didn't want to stop play to discuss the Stretching issue and the only purpose of it was to enhance a pending PRE attack.) Still, when it comes to having a non-cosmetic function, like enabling non-flying characters to climb out of a pit or spanning a gap between rooftops more than one hex apart, I would disallow such applications without the Stretching to justify the distance. I believe no rationalization is required, but if it helps, consider how human putty not especially adapted to Stretching could be harmed when the his friendly neighborhood brick starts tromping up those slender rungs of the metahuman ladder.

Re: Metamorphosis As subtle as it seems, all of the backlash against Shapeshifting seems to be rooted in the premature mention of Sense Groups in the Power description. If the first sentence of the text simply read, "A character with Shape Shift can change his form without altering his powers or other abilities," I suspect reader reaction would have been different. After all, it seems to me that the "this is just a kind of illusion" interpretation is wholly bogus. As I read it, Shape Shift vs. Sight really does enable users to assume a different physiological configurations. Likewise Shape Shift vs. Touch really does enable users to assume different surface textures. It simply reads like an illusion to some people because in the Hero system, "shape" is purely a function of appearance rather than a source of Powers. This is, of course, as it should be. All sorts of exploitation issues would arise if Shapeshift became a special sort of VPP on top of having cosmetic results. Letting someone manifest skin that is smooth and hard to the touch makes sense for this power, but letting them get any level of Armor for free would be just plain wrong. Likewise, letting a humanoid assume an angelic form is fine for Shapeshift, but letting him get Flying as a bonus would also be ill-advised. Factor in Swimming, Density Increase, Stretching, Shrinking, Growth, Leaping, Gliding, Clinging, not to mention a wide variety of attack forms and Life Support applications; and Shapeshift that was about more than perception becomes a sleazy way for degenerate players to acquire a potent VPP. Pricing it appropriately for all that would deprive the game of a Power appropriate for what Shapeshift actually does -- allow a change of shape without any change in capabilities. Of course, this does not mean that characters cannot be built to manifest Powers through changing shape. It simply means that you have to pay for those other Powers instead of trying to slip them in for free through some sort of loophole. In effect, making Shapeshift a "vs. Sense Groups" sort of Power errs on the side of clarifying that no such loophole actually exists in the rules. Yet I do see it as an error insofar as it has given rise to this misinterpretation that it is merely an illusion. The Power clearly does describe real physiological changes -- it simply and appropriately constrains them to being cosmetic in nature. The evidence of this is in PER handling. While Imitation may be imperfect, a human-looking character who Shapeshifts into a werewolf-looking form actually has that appearance -- even the sharpest of observers will see nothing "fake" about lupine features because Shapeshifting vs. Sight actually causes pointed ears, long canines, and so on to manifest (unless it is deliberately defined with an illusory SFX.) Of course, getting enhanced hearing and a vicious bite requires paying for the appropriate Powers. Likewise including vs. Touch in the Shapeshifting does make a difference between skin/body hair that merely spoofs the appearance of thick fur or growing actual thick fur that feels right on contact. Were I intent on addressing the problem, apart from revising the first sentence as suggested above, I would work on greater clarity in the sense groups themselves. For example, clarifying that the vs. Sight Group also applies to Radarsense, Sonar, and other remote shape-detecting senses would probably help players to understand the difference between Shapeshift and a self-only Images. In fact, it might be best to simply divorce Shapeshift from "Sense Groups" per se and instead simply divide it into "aspects" like configuration, sound, scent, texture, mind, and energy signature. Configuration would address Sight as well as methods of perception like Sonar or Radarsense. Taste, being rarely-used, could be folded along with Touch into "texture." Mind would apply to Mental Senses as well as certain Mental Powers with perceptual aspects (for example, Shapeshift would not help a character evade Telepathy or Mind Control, but it would make the individual "feel different" as a target for those Powers. With Imitation, it could also be used to make the exercise of such Powers "feel like" the work of a psychic other than the actual perpetrator.) Energy signature exists to cover stuff like the Radio Group. This last one I see as useful in sci-fi situations to distinguish a screen that emulates the energy signature of another craft/facility (Images) from hardware that produces all the same actual emissions (Shapeshift.) Seperating Shapeshift from Sense Groups may seem unnecessarily complex at first glance, but it seems to me like it would be worth the effort. It goes beyond simply dispelling the myth that Shapeshift is another illusion without going so far as to create a loophole for freebie Powers that would disturb game balance. Right now I cannot find any clear ruling about the interaction of Shapeshift vs. Sight with Active Sonar or Radar. I would be inclined to argue strongly that it is applicable, but a rules lawyer could well make the a contrary case based on the fact that neither is part of the Sight Group. No doubt there are other ambiguities of this nature that could be resolved by breaking up Shapeshifting into "aspects" that dealt with manifestations of the Power itself independent of specific Sense Groups (although in some cases the correlation would remain extremely strong, as would be the case with the sound aspect and the Hearing Sense Group.) The end result might be a longer write-up for the Power, yet the additional length would not be wasteful since it would clear up existing ambiguities and do a better job conveying the fact that Shapeshift, while remaining purely cosmetic, may involve real physical change rather than mere illusions (and striking any illusory SFX presented as Shapeshift examples certainly would not hurt in pursuit of the same goal either.) Regards, Brainstorm P.S. Holy crap! I guess I only read one page of this thread before I posted, and in the process overlooked some good comments and perhaps also seemed to steal an idea or two. Regarding the "moving through tiny openings" Desolid-esque aspect of Shapeshifting, my inclination would be to allow that only in cases where someone took vs. Sight along with "Any Shape" or at least defined a shape appropriate too such movement. This does fly in the face of the "it's always only cosmetic" rule, but it just seems too reasonable to disallow and no great threat to game balance. Still, barring an especially bizarre character, it is hard to imagine fitting "amorphous blob" into a Limited Group of shapes. However, I suppose those with serpentine or worm-like forms could move through openings a great deal smaller than are needed to accomodate a typical humanoid. Certainly vocal mimics or even face shifters should be unable to ooze in such a way, but a character who can truly assume Any Shape should be able to move through small openings and a character able to assume specific non-humanoid shapes should still be able to fit through openings that would accomodate those specific shapes. Also, for clarity's sake, here is a rehash of the scheme I proposed, which on more extensive review of the thread is similar to ghost-angel's suggestion. Really they do seems the same save for the my use of "texture" for a touch/taste fusion, leaving "scent" as its own Shapeshifting aspect, and blending shape/appearance into "configuration." I suppose I can see some logic in blending Taste with Smell, and it would seem odd to me to have Taste as its own aspect given how rarely Taste senses are actually used. I simply put it into "texture" because I envision "scent" as something that could be accomplished with simple glands or other chemical emitters, while the process of changing the taste of body parts seems more closely related to the types of changes required to create different tactile sensations. Configuration -- physical shape and coloration Texture -- properties of actual tissues/components/whatever Sound -- voice and other emitted sounds Scent -- smell Mind -- "signature" applicable to Mental Powers Energy -- "signature" applicable to Radio Sense Group

Re: Labs in Bases... Here I go thinking that I've made a good impression with a series of thoughtful posts, and I go and overlook a significant aspect of a significant Limitation that was directly relevant to my own comments. Can't we just abolish Focus Applicability so that I can go back to looking smart here? On a serious note though, that was a good point. In essence, Base labs are more limited because their applicability is a function of roleplaying and common sense whereas an Immobile Focus lab could reasonably qualify for all the same sorts of uses while allowing on purchase at no additional cost for the owner to determine if the facility was useful for others. Personally, I would have trouble ruling that an Immobile Focus lab should be more restricted than a Base lab in terms of what sorts of tasks could be accomplished there. Yet if I were being especially strict, I could see simply ruling against the application of the Focus Limitation or the Usable by Other Advantage to any Skills save those deployed in a Complimentary Skil Roll context. This would make portable toolkits and Focus labs follow the same mechanic as is the official default for Base lab behavior, though it does seem like it cuts into creativity insofar as a character concept might be best served by an especially high quality Forensics kit or a home library so excellent as to merit a direct boost to specific Knowledge Skills. In the end, the Applicability issue undermines my point about real balance justifying the minor discrepancy between Base lab costs and Focus Skill costs. Also, it is good someone pointed out that there are roleplaying/common sense concerns about the extent to which portable toolkits can be used to attempt things that would normally be done in labs or workshops. I think my approach to the whole situation would probably factor into difficulty more than modifiers though. Certainly what is or is not possible depends on context, but especially in a comic book or sci-fi campaign, access to a junkyard should at least open up the possibility of some amazing feats of fabrication (however implausible they might seem to a real world engineer.) I think if given an instance where two characters each wanted to fabricate a complex device to resolve a plot point in an ongoing adventure, and one had the benefit of a well-stocked workshop while the other merely had his personal toolkit along with a mix of store bought and salvaged parts, I would handle the situation by making the task less difficult in the first context than in the second. After drawing that distinction, I would then calculate everything else based on character sheet information and modifiers awarded based on each player's description of their character's approach to the endeavor. I would only be inclined to make a statement like "you can't do that with just your toolkit!" if the timeframe was unreasonable (though that might rule out fabrication in a sophisticated facility as well,) the purchase/salvage of essential components seemed completely implausible, or the work absolutely requires a controlled environment (and again, what work actually requires in the context of a fantastical story may not be at all the like what the same task might be required according to a real world engineer.) Of course, all this assumes plot-driven roleplaying as well -- I have never allowed excellent technical skills to pass as a poor man's VPP in a superheroic campaign, but I do find that building "hurdles" that require technical Skills into an adventure is good for promoting well-rounded character construction and rewarding players who see the Skill system as something much more than window dressing to absorb leftover points after optimizing Characteristics and Powers. Regards, Brainstorm