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Re: Class systems -- is there no escape? The difference is that the game system itself requires that someone who wants to fight effectively take combat levels and WFs, but it does not require KSs, perks, or magic skill to use the powers listed in the power section. If we require that for our games, we are imposing some sort of structure on the game--which is the same a class structure. A very limited class structure, but a class structure nonetheless.

Re: Class systems -- is there no escape? Perhaps that approach is more valid in some settings than in others, but even in these settings there are certain power constructions that would "break the mold" and thus be illegal, I'm sure. Don't try to make this into a semantic arguement--I'm using the same definition of "class" that everyone else is using in this thread. Talking about the requirements, power, and limits of magic in the campaign is the essence of any mage class in any system. I would argue that just about everyone who plays Fantasy Hero uses at least the mage class (of some sort or another). Those Fantasy games that don't use a mage class wouldn't have the appropriate Fantasy feel, or Norse feel, or Chinese feel.. they would feel more like a Champions game in the middle-ages than anything else.

Re: Class systems -- is there no escape? Maybe the mages in your game can take any power they want, in any combination, with as many or as few limitations as they want, but to me that doesn't sound like any fun at all. Everyone would have some magic, and needless to say, magic would dominate the campaign. Once you start saying Mages need certain things to cast spells (magic skill, a mana pool, certain KSs or perks), and can only take certain powers if they are a certain type of mage, then you enter the realm of the dreaded class system. This is why I say that at least the mage class is just about mandatory in a Fantasy Game.

Re: Balancing Magic Use True. I was assuming a "realistic" Fantasy game, where most PCs have bodys in the 10-15 range and armor in the 3-6 range. So, a 4d6 KA will take you out in one shot, more or less..

Re: Class systems -- is there no escape? I'm not saying you have to use the D&D Mage class that disallows most weapons and armor, I am saying nothing really contraversial--just that generally you need to have some sort of magic system in your Fantasy Hero game, otherwise the characters end up looking like Super-Heroes. This magic system is your mage "class" and just about all Fantasy Hero games have one.

Re: Balancing Magic Use In my games, it tends to be the other way around--Fighters are more powerful than Mages (at least at low point values). One of the main reasons is that Fighters can just pick up a bow to get that 2d6 RKA for a 1-pt weapon familiarity. Mages need to pay -points- for the same thing (I don't do the /3 or /5 rule), so Fighters start off with a huge edge, at least when it comes to raw damage dealing. 4d6 RKA? I just wouldn't allow a beginning character to start off with a spell that powerful, that does sound very unbalancing. Make him pay his dues, starting with a 2d6 RKA first and have him build it up over the course of play.. maybe never even getting to 4d6, that sounds amazingly powerful.

Re: Class systems -- is there no escape? I personally think that classes add a lot to the game in a Fantasy genre. In fact, I think that one of the major problems with Hero when used to play Fantasy is the lack of a class system to provide structure and meaning to the various powers. I grew up playing "that other system" as I'm sure most people here did. Although, I don't especially like to play it anymore, the class and magic systems have a way of sticking with you. I think it's a testament to the genius of Gary Gygax, personally. Let's face it, Hero lacks personality. It does that on purpose though--as it says on the book, it's the Ultimate Gamer's Toolkit. You can make anything you want, from wizards to robots to whatever. And it combines this universality with the best game mechanics of any game I've ever seen. That's why I play Hero. But in my heart, I'm still playing 1st edition D&D, and that's why I went through all the trouble to transfer all the spells, classes, monsters, etc. If you don't like class systems, don't use them. But, in a Fantasy game, classes are just about mandatory, at least the mage class. Magic needs to be restricted in some way.

Re: D&D3e to HERO System Conversion Update If people are interested in my D&D to Hero conversion, I will continue to write it up for the Hero Wiki. I don't recall anyone commenting on it, so I stopped working to upload it.

Re: D&D to Hero Fantasy rules questions I have a good D&D to Hero conversion as well, I can tell you more about it if you're interested (pm me). I allow Attacks of Opportunity in my game.. basically, I let people abort to an attack whenever they would normally be able to take an attack of opportunity (opponent runs away, picks up a weapon, casts a spell, etc). You can also throw Combat Reflexes in there (make it a trigger, just like Follow-Through Attack = Cleave in D&D). This way, the person with Combat Reflexes gets a free attack whenever there is an AoO, but a normal person has to waste one of his normal phases in the turn. I also allow a free Charge maneuver for everyone. It's -2 OCV, -2 DCV, Fmove, but must be in a straight line to the target. It's a lot worse than the martial Charge maneuver, so people still want to buy that. I never allow Combat Luck, that seems insanely too good. I'd also let your wussies do at least 1 1/2d6 killing damage. I've actually lowered the STR min of most weapons to help wussies do more damage (and to make combat in general more deadly). I would be very hesitant to let PC's get above 7-8 rPD, at the maximum. As far as players wanting to spend all their XP on OCV, I have a class system which makes it less economical to do that. Also, I would make them train for every point, and for longer times for each extra OCV level they've got in something. Eventually, the PCs will just give up trying to increase something and put their points somewhere else.

Re: More Granular Extra Time? In my campaign, I have implemented the initiative penalty for heavy weapons (as well as initiative bonuses for quick weapons), and it seems to work well. I also use this to modify DEX checks when people attempt to use a held action, for example: An 8 DEX ogre is standing, holding his action, weilding a -4 initiative great club. An 18 DEX halfling runs up on him, weilding a +2 initiative dagger. They both make DEX checks as the ogre attempts to use his held action to smash the halfling, but the ogre has to roll under a 7 while the halfling gets to roll under a 15. The halfling will surely get his stab off first, although he might still get smashed afterwards..

Is this even remotely possible? If I have the 'charge' maneuver and hand-to-hand rapid attack, am I allowed to move at my full combat move, and attack two adjacent people at the end of it?

Are called shots easier to block than normal attacks? So, if an opponent with OCV of 8 is attacking me, and my OCV is also 8, my chance to block is 11 or lower. However, if he is calling a chest shot on me, does my chance to block rise to 14 or lower (-3 from chest shot), or does it stay the same? Thanks.

I have noticed that the use of packages is fairly widespread. I don't exactly understand what packages do, though.. What are the advantages of using packages, do you think? If the package includes a "package bonus," I can understand why a player would want to buy them for his/her character, but many packages I've seen don't have a package bonus. Why do you think players would pay much attention to packages that don't have a "bonus" to them?

Re: [Compilation] "to Fantasy HERO Conversions & Adaptations" So, how does one actually use this wiki system to upload files? Is cutting and pasting the best method? It seems rather time-consuming. Has anyone checked out what I've put on there so far? I guess I will continue if people are interested.

Re: [Compilation] "to Fantasy HERO Conversions & Adaptations" So, I posted the title page and Fighter class to that link I was given. Thanks for the forum to share my wacky Hero ideas. It looks like it will take a long while just to copy everything over and set up the formatting, so I suppose I'll do it a little at a time. What I've posted so far is 2 pages of a 20+ page Class system, not including the races, spell system, monsters, house rules, etc. I've been able to playtest it lately, and things are modified constantly.

Re: [Compilation] "to Fantasy HERO Conversions & Adaptations" I don't know if anyone is interested or not, but I have done a lot of work converting D&D to Hero--something along the lines of what Killer Shrike has done. It's not a 1:1 conversion at all, it's not like fighters get x amount of Body a level or whatever... it's more of a "feel" conversion. I tried to take the feel of D&D and replace the mechanics with the vastly superior Hero ones. I've converted classes (in a very loose way), races, monsters, spells, etc. Classes are generally based on a particular knowledge skill that may be used on occasion, but typically is just a waste of points. In this way, a lower level character may in fact be more powerful than a higher level one due to the fact that he/she has less 'wasted' points. Of course all the truely powerful abilities are only available at higher levels, though. The figher class, for example, is based on KS: Combat. I will sometimes let it be used as an analyze: combat skill, but its primary function is to tell you what level you are. If you have a full INT-based KS: Combat, you're 1st level. If you have 5 points in it, you're 2nd level, if you have 7 points in it, you're 3rd level, and so on. The levels allow you to get access to better skills/powers that are not available at lower levels, such as certain combat maneuvers and so on. As you can see, it's fairly easy to "gain levels" under this system, but the level alone gives you nothing. It's all about getting access to powers you can purchase at certain levels. If anyone is interested, I can start posting the classes (in a different thread, I suppose).

Re: Strength Cost: 1 point or 2 I definitely can see an arguement that STR is worth 2, but more important to me is that DEX costs 4. You can just total up the points that DEX gives you, and it's pretty apparent that it's underpriced. 3 points of DEX costs 9, and it gives you: 1 OCV level, 1 DCV level, 0.3 speed, +3 lightning reflexes, and possibly +1 level in DEX skills as well. That's a total benefit package of what.. 19 points? Making DEX cost 4 does a lot to balance it out, imo. I wouldn't make DEX cost 4 in normal Champions games, but in Fantasy Hero it seems especially important to me.