Christopher R Taylor

Only it doesn't, really. That's likely to be at least 3 or 4d6 with a lot of tables of players, with potential for more if the "no more than double base weapon damage" optional rule is not invoked

 

Hence, the statement in plain English

 that same sword can deal up to 12 body even before any martial arts maneuvers or strength is added

 

Yeah I think you can get carried away, but the modern trend is to have a layered, textured effect even where it makes no sense - look at movie costumes.  If the characters look too dated, modern younger players will think they suck.

Rumors that CBS is going to shift Supergirl over to CW are going around, because ratings aren't what they hoped for and its an expensive show.

It sounds easier to just allow special powers in framework (like Nightvision based on cat's eyes).

Yeah I worded it wrong, the partial shifting is in a separate multipower for minor effects like a tail or ears or a wolf's snout, etc.  The VPP is for changing completely into another ordinary animal.  Since the character was a time-displaced Golden Age sidekick, he could only change into AMERICAN animals (of course) as he was one of those super patriotic types from WW2.  Over time I figured with xps he could buy off that limitation and change into anything.

It was fun doing a charge as an antelope, leaping sideways, then turning into a whale -- an American whale! -- and sideswiping a crowd of agents.

It takes some GM supervision, but I find that it can be very useful.  I built an animal shapeshifter using a Power Pool of Multiforms (and a multipower for partial shifting like getting cat's eyes).  It can definitely be abused easily but its also a valid build for certain specific and limited concepts.  As long as you're not doing it just to get around the limitations on how many forms you can have with mlutiform, I think its something a GM should consider allowing.

Maybe some more accessories, like pouches and armor plates, a few more bandoliers or whatever, some Image-style extras?

Possibly a rewrite on infinity war:

What they decided is that after a certain point (Level 20, whatever that is), gains in power are "holographic".  Meaning, while you appear to be gaining power, you're only doing so because it's how the game measures progress. 

 

This is pretty well the way almost all computer games work.  At least in WoW you can go back to lower level areas, and be more powerful than them.  Many games, you can't even go back, the entire game gets more powerful as you do, so nothing really changes.

I think you're just going to have to build them the way you want, because how powerful they are varies tremendously based on the story's plot or what is going on.  For example, Thrall can obliterate entire armies... or has to run from some bad guys.  Its just going to be based on how powerful you want them to be as compared to the PCs.

Duplication would allow the characters to just sleep and have a normal life while their duplicate is out doing his thing on the other shift.

Also in different Genres, you have different scales of attacks.   Look over the weapon list and examine the kind of damage your characters are likely to be dealing out.  A greatsword does 2d6 killing, that averages 7 body and 14 stun (if you use hit locations).  So a monster with 8 rPD will take zero body and probably even zero stun from that attack.  now look at the defenses available.  Plate armor gives you 8 rPD, so you can be just as tough as that monster against killing attacks with enough money and time.

However, that same sword can deal up to 12 body even before any martial arts maneuvers or strength is added, and a hit to the head doubles that (minus 8 for the defenses, x2 for location = 8 body), so the hit can be catastrophic.

That's the kind of thing I keep in mind when I'm building monsters for Fantasy Hero: how bulletproof do you want them to be, and how big are the weapon attacks?  If you want a dragon to be nearly invincible but have a vulnerable spot, then 14 or so rPD will be enough, but some areas should be lower defense to allow a targeted attack to hit those gaps in the scales for example.

I think its worth at least experimenting with allowing people to move after they use an attack.  That is, to have attack actions not end your turn, and to allow you to break your half move into parts.

So it would play out like this: Bob the Invincible has a 26m run.  His half move is 13m.

Bob runs up to a Viper Agent, using 5m of his half move, then grabs the Viper Agent, picks him up, and moves the rest of his half move to 8m, or the full 13m move.

Savage Worlds allows this and I have not noted that it demonstrably breaks the game.  It does, however, make for very dynamic battlefields and would better represent a lot of combat moves especially in action and comic book stuff.

I've never seen a character use Casual STR to throw an object and while my play experience is limited this thread is also the first time I have ever seen someone mention doing so on this forum.

I haven't ever seen it used that way either.  I guess it could be done, its just tough to envision a situation that's going to come up.

The world of Jolrhos, this game setting, is defined less by fantastic enchantments on items than on enchanted materials used to make items.  You can find swords with  magic on them and rings of power, but the bulk of treasure is in specially constructed materials with inherent magic.

For example, instead of a longsword +1, you can find a Fellstone longsword which not only looks a cool uniform flat black color, but because it is made out of this material is tougher and lighter than steel.  This makes the weapon easier to use and can even hit harder as a result, without having spells cast on it.  Because Hero items have so many stats such as weight, strength minimum, PD, and Body, different construction can adjust these stats for subtle effect.

Having a suit of armor made from mithril doesn't grant you bonuses to DCV, but it does make the armor considerably lighter, tougher for better defenses, and more resistant to corrosion effects.  That bow made of Wosewood has much longer range and hits harder.

This gives a tremendous variety of possible effects and types of items without needing magical bonuses on top.  And it makes magical items that much more interesting and potentially powerful.  Just +1 DCV on a hauberk of bloodiron plate is a major upgrade without throwing about major enchantments.

The Jolrhos Field Guide is for GMs to know how that all fits together, how to use it, and what the properties and use of these materials is, in addition to all of the other curious and unusual stuff around the world which players can take advantage of.  When the Jolrhos Treasury comes out (probably next year) with all the treasure charts and information, plus history and some treasure map and horde scenarios, and notes on how to use treasure, it will take advantage of the information in this book.

Might be a good slot in a multipower, although its one of those powers you'll want available when you can't change multipower slots.

A lot of posters on this board seem to be the GMs for their groups, and there's a strong predisposition towards undervaluing any custom limitation a player might want.  I've seen a lot of threads over the years that go something like "My player wants to take a force field that only protects him against friendly fire.  What's that worth?  I'm thinking -1/2, because you know, some villain might have missile deflection or something."

 

Yeah, there is a natural predilection for most GMs to undervalue player-made limitations just so they aren't taken advantage of.  Better to err on the side of caution, for the sake of the game, but at the same time, you can go way too far that direction as well.

Well the Vikings didn't set out to get to Byzantium, it was more a gradual progression of looking for work and plunder that ended up with them in that location as the emperor's special bodygard

I think its an all too easy mistake to declare absolute modifier values to something like this, since its going to vary from campaign to campaign and GM to GM.  I've played games where using casual strength almost never came up.  I've played ones where it was very common.  There are a lot of variables, and on this topic, I think the best any of us can do is say "in my game, this is what I'd suggest."

That said, -1/4 seems absurdly low.

6E2 124 has some interesting rules. That I admit not I even was aware off.

Among them you get +5 STR if you only try to free a single limb.

If you roll twice the enemy Body, breaking out of a Grab (or entangle) does not cost you any action.

You're right, I thought that was the rule, not just a house rule:

"If a Grabbed character’s attempt to break out of a Grab does twice as much BODY on his STR Roll as the BODY rolled for the Grabber’s STR Roll, the Grabbed character frees himself and has a Full Phase in which to act."

 

Hell, I did it myself with the test scenario in Champions Complete: My brick tackled Arrowhead with a grab by leap with his first action.  It was all over for Arrowhead at that point - half the encounter effectively removed in phase 12.  Green Dragon tried a few kicks and did some stun against my half-dcv self but big deal - I could take it (brick and all) and attacks against me opened himself up to unchallenged strikes from my partner.

 

So your complaint sounds more that bricks can both take and deal out a lot of damage, rather than grabs.  And that's a separate balance issue (one GMs need to keep in mind) to me.  Because if your brick wasn't so tough, the grab wouldn't be as much of a problem in this scenario.

Well lets look it over in Hero terms.  A standard news helicopter type can lift about 3000 kg and fly at 287 kph.  In hero terms that's about 320m noncombat speed and 35 STR.  So yeah you're probably right that's roughly within his demonstrated Strength.  He's not Spider-Man level (40 STR) but he's pretty close after he threw that motorcycle (which again I thought was a bit much, but the Ultimate characters have never really been statted out, so they can do whatever the writer figures they can).

Per RAW casual STR use allows a character to pay END once for STR use (regardless of how many things are done with it in a phase) and all in the same phase 1) casually bust through a wall as a zero phase action, 2) PRE attack immediately after coming through the wall -- gaining the advantage of an extremely violent actions, and THEN 3) punch someone who just hesitated as a result of the combination shown herein.

 

Yes, that's true (other than the only paying END once, which I'm not sure about and wouldn't work in my game anyway).  A character can do all that right now, as per the rules.

The only difference with this build would be that they can exert casual strength with a larger strength value - equal to their normal strength - when they break through the wall.  That's all that has changed in your scenario. And to do so, they are paying 30 points for the privilege, with a -1 limitation.  So instead of buying +15 PD and ED or +60 Stun or a 6d6 HTA, or anything else you could do with those points, you can break through a tougher wall.  I'm not seeing the imbalance here.

Right, you can't make up the gap in your 60 STR by just buying 30 more; that would be halved when used casually.

But I agree that its worth at least -1/2 if not more.  You aren't actually gaining a lot except speed and more strength when its not your phase.  You can't really use casual strength damage, because the only time its going to come up is not on your phase - why use casual strength to do damage with if its  the same as your normal damage, and costs the same END?  You can technically use it to lift, but its again no better than using your normal strength.

Basically all its useful for is to shrug things aside without taking time and break free of being grabbed or entangled, and that's a pretty limited set of circumstances.

No they don't. If one does get overwhelmed and is on the ground, the attacker does a ground and pound or if several usually a curb stomp.

You do realize you just argued that my experience and observation is a lie, right?  Without being there to have any idea yourself?

10 hours might be generous, for any extended time period without an army to march with or a really good reason to get there in a hurry.

He's much stronger in the films than he is in the original comics.  Probably in "ultimate" universe he's really strong, too.

But this looks a bit ridiculously strong, way beyond his reasonable capacity even as depicted in the films.