Willpower

Re: Is Find Weakness mispriced? Again, I have to check my rulebook again on the wording of something like that, but on instinct I would simply say, the targetting laser would have two seperate settings. One most likely to stun (or a tun setting) and one most likely to kill (or a lethal setting). The same could go for the Di Mok manuever. They target two seperate muscle groupings.

Re: Is Find Weakness mispriced? Don't take this as an agreement that FW needs to be fixed, because I am still unconvinced, though I do agree it is an orphaned mechanic, though you at times need those in all game systems. But you would have to include in the description, cannot reduce defense below 0, or you would end up having people claim the power is broken because it adds damage to your attack. And I am not quibling here. I have seen this arguement used before in other game systems (cough, D&D 3.5) when basic common sense wording was left out for a rule.

Re: Is Find Weakness mispriced? 1. I would agree with this, if there is such a rule in place currently. I do not remember it being included, but then I am an old school player going back to 2nd edition, so some of the things that have changed I do not recall. 2. The going up a time increment to try again, sounds as though it fits in with the standard mechanics, I would agree, but what I can't see is why you would argue for something like this when it would make even less sense than the current way from the stand point you are talking. "I tried and failed against this guy several times now so I can't try again for a month agaisnt him, and him alone. That is the other problem with this approach as well as the always work to a certain degree, or never works if failed against option. I agree those make the most sense, but it then becomes the type of power which requires a notebook to keep track of who you have succeeded against, and who you have failed against. 3. I do not think FW should be included with attack powers in figuring AP limits because its cost is not figured in the same way as other powers. But then, as I have mentioned I use a different way to figure standard power limits than AP, which works better than AP in my opinion.

Re: Is Find Weakness mispriced? I'm sorry... What was asked for was a SFX for the power that would make sense for the rules. This is what I have provided. I did not provide the write-ups for the power, because as you have mentioned the Di Mok version would not work against certain enemies. (rigid armor, FF, comepletely alien physiology) The write up for the power would reflect this, as an appropriate limitation. (IE Does not work against rigid armor, FF, completely alien physiology: -1) Every power and SFX concept, will have some areas, where they will not completely fit logically. It is a simulation of reality, not reality itself or we would not be playing a game based on super heroics. And as to your conclusion, no the advocates DO use FW as written. But as most if not all powers with a stop sign or magnifying glass, you need to watch them closely. I do not clear all uses of it, but the uses of it I do clear, are all used by the book.

Re: Is Find Weakness mispriced? OK, I'll do you one better. I have 2 examples for you. Targetting Laser = The targetting system for this laser helps the user pinpoint the best place to attack the target. This is where the attack always hit, if it hits the target. This nexus point is stored in memory so when used multiple times the targetting system can pinpoint in greater detail therefore further maximize potential damage. However if the targetting system fails to find the correct nexus point needed for maximum damage, it has to undergo a hard reset before it can be used again on that target. Further uses will end up using the flawed Nexus Point as a beginning guide so they should be avoided. Di Mok = Di Mok is a martial art manuever that is complex to perform. You have to perform it with an open palmed strike with the fingers hooked. The strike must hit a vital spot that is hard to target, and requires a few moments of vigilant study of the intended subject to find the exact target point. The target point for Di Mok is a particular muscle grouping. Once the muscle grouping is found it can be split to penetrate the subject's defenses. If so chosen, you can split the muscle grouping further to further penetrate the targets defenses.

Re: Is Find Weakness mispriced? Cheers to you too Mark, that is exactly the way to handle it.

Re: Is Find Weakness mispriced? Uhmm... sorry to say this, but you are the GM, aren't you? It's not as simple as one villain standing in the corner and shouting, "TAG ME IN." Thats all part of the situation you build into the game when it happens. If you, as a GM cannot find some way to make it work realistically in the game, that is not my, nor the games fault. Here is an example of how it can work though. Willpower is fighting Nextro and Quicksilver is fighting Bugo (Heroes and villains respectively). On Nextro's turn he notices Quicksilver (A speedster) running away from Bugo and towards him, after just knocking him down with a FW Move Through. Nextro, not wanting to face both Willpower and Quicksilver at the same time, shoots Quicksilver with a flash attack to get by him quickly. Willpower fires an EB and knocks down Nextro. Bugo gets up feeling the pain from the FW attack, and seeing Quicksilver temporarly disabled jumps at Willpower to pay back Nextro for helping him. Nextro seeing Willpower confronted by now turns to the helpless Quicksilver. There you go a switch up, that works game-wise and isn't just, "Ok now you are fighting him, and you are fighting this other person." Though Bugo could have just as easily kept fighting Quicksilver. You don't often need rationale for different villains attacking different PC's It just happens in team fights the same way PC's often attack different villains that they aren't always fighting. You don't stop them and say, "Now wait a minute it doesn't make sense that you would attack that villain even though he is down and at a disadvantage, you have been fighting this guy the whole time you need to attack him." I have had this sort of situation come up on me several times when I first started GMing Champions. One of my players made a character with 60 Dex while the rest were at standard levels. I constantly had to throw in villains with area attacks, in order to hit him. That was a pain. I also had a different PC build a character named Vision, who had Invisibility to everything except Infrared Vision, so I constantly had to throw in at least a few people with it, or he would trounce everyone. Those situations were all a pain, but it wasn't a problem with the game. It was a problem with me as a GM not wanting to say no, when I saw something that I KNEW would hurt the game. The Hero System, and Champions specifically is NOT, I repeat NOT a self balancing game like D&D is. (Heck, even D&D isn't self-balancing comepletely, but I am not going into that) It is not enough to slot this much of an allowance for offensive powers, and this much for defense. That is a fine place to start, but you can't just use it. The GM has to go over each individual PC to check for potential abuse. Here is another trouble PC I had once. He was mot an extrodinary character by any means named Runic, who was a magic user. He had all his own powers and could survive without using his magic VPP fine, though he was a little weak compared to the others. His VPP seemed inocent enough, as it was only like a 18 point pool or something like that, can't remember the exacts now. Then he showed what he could do with the VPP. He already did decent damage, I think it was 12d6 with his sword (he didn't kill), which our average was around 13d6. He slotted 3 levels of growth. That bumped his strength up and he now did 15d6. That is not all though. Since limitations were applied to it, he also slotted 3 levels of density increase. Now he did 18d6, and he had points left over. As for the SFX issue of it that is a comepletely different story. I am somewhat in agreement with you there, and I would say if the player cannot plausibly explain his FW ability then it is perfectly reasonable to say that they cannot have it regardless of any other conditions. Though there are many explanations you can use for FW. I mentioned one above in an example, as the targetting laser. There are others too. If the SFX is actually locating a weakness in the other character, than I could easily see the character taking it with all attacks, but then as I have mentioned in other posts, there is a cost to everything. Above and beyond the point cost that is, and if they can do FW with everything, then they have to pay elsewhere, whether that is in DC, OCV, or whatever. It would aso be logical for say a person who is an expert in martial arts to have FW, where they find the person's weakness with their martial arts, but when they switch to their guns it doesn't work. Or if someone can find a weakness with one attack it might be such a precision attack, that they cannot use it with other attacks that are not as precise. As for not knowing the weakness later, that is hard to figure out. It could be that given the nature of the human (or alien) body whatever weakness found has to be found again later, as maybe the weak point shifts slightly, or since you haven't hit it in a while, you have to reaquire the knowledge of its exact location. Though even in those latter 2 cases there is call to say they should at least get a bonus to FW if successfully used previously. As for marking it for teamates, it could be that it doesn't work that way. (IE the targetting laser, or a special combat manuever, "The Dimok" for instance.)

Re: Is Find Weakness mispriced? Preach it brother. This is exactly what I am saying too. It is not a game problem, but as you say a problem with people wanting to use caps instead of judgements on a character because its easier than having to tell someone their PC is too powerful for the campaign.

Re: Is Find Weakness mispriced? Well you answered yourself there, but I wouldn't say your better without them, I have been in that situation myself. What I would say though is, it is a matter of you either being the GM, or letting the players take over the game. There are many ways to handle it. Saying no would just be the first part of it. Obviously, if they felt stringly enough about it to leave the game, then they had a reason to want FW. Fine, if they want it, then they have to give something themselves. If they ask for a 13d6 attack and want FW, then I would say no. If they say they are leaving, I may say fine, depending on how they say it, or I say say, "Lets work it out. Why do you need that high of an attack, AND FW?" Then let them know how unbalancing that would be. If they indicate that is why they want it, then cut them loose. If not, then offer them a different solution. Try what you would feel most comfortable with. There are several areas they can take from in order to not make it unbalancing. The top 3, in order are DC, OCV, and the FW skill roll. I they don't want to give on any of these basis, then I would say they fall into the, "I want to be unbalancing" class and you should cut them loose. As it will destroy the game in the long run. I know this, as I have experienced it. Though the bad PC I had wasn't shooting for FW, so that wan't a problem with him.

Re: Is Find Weakness mispriced? I have alowed it in every Supers game I have run, and it has been allowed in every supers game, I have played in, and it has never broke the game. You just need GMs with a better handle on what to allow and disallow in their game. Champions is not like D&D, characters need to be inspected far more cautiously than in D&D. Because it IS a Supers game, and if anyone is given free run in the game, they can do much more than you want too. I have found even a small VPP more of a game breaker than Find Weakness.

Re: Is Find Weakness mispriced? Say No. Your the GM. I limit it as I limit AP attacks. In my campaigns I go by a DC limit, instead of the active point limit, with a +1/4 advantage being equivilent to 1d6. It helps make attacks with advantages more worthwhile that the Active Point Limit. So instead of being limited to 6D6 Area attack (big woop) you can have 8D6. 8D6 isn't much more, but it is at least a feasible attack then, as opposed to 6D6, which a normal holding a garbage can lid can resist. So in my campaigns with 12DC limit, AP attacks are limited to 10d6. Same for FW, though because of the sliding scale I may cut it a dice or so at times depending on the skill roll level involved. That makes it around the same power level. In exchange for being able to further reduce the defense (which becomes less and less useful), AP works all the time. It is nearly an even trade, and gives flavor to the character with FW. (Since they have to take a round to work it, and can fail.) There is a defense for both, and it makes it where someone with a high hardened defense isn't invulnerable. I actually find that the defenses come into the game roughly with the same frequency. LOW edging Hardened out a little only because it is cheaper, as Hardened is more useful.

Re: Is Find Weakness mispriced? Not necessarily. You are thinking somewhat limitedly, and pigeonholing the use of FW. I agree, that if that is the SOLE use for it, then it can be that way, and characters built with FW that is usable for every power they have, so that ALL of their powers are too low without it, then yes you are right. However, At base level FW is not usable with every attack. So characters can have a attack they use FW with, which can be their signature move, and if it fails, then resort to other attacks. Also, what is boring to you, is not boring to all. Some prefer a challenge, and ways to have their character have to think. The all or nothing deal can be said about other types of characters besides FW afterall. A human torch type, or a fire based wizard in Fantasy Hero afterall, would be virtually useless against something with a huge resistance to fire. Does that mean those type of characters are also a (cardinal sin) Plus, even if you cannot affect one baddy, it is a team game, and there are team challenges. If you cannot fight one baddy, fight another. Or save some people. We are heroes right. Some people prefer to use their head. Hell, in my current game, one character is a touch telepath. Put her in a fight with people who can fly, or robots not affected by mental powers and she is useless, but the player never complains. He builds his characters with flaws like this for a reason, and she always tries to pitch in, even if she has to wait until a Viper agent goes down and pick up his gun.

Re: Is Find Weakness mispriced?

Re: New Power build: Supernatural Invisibility Yep, that was my initial presumption.

Re: A Thought Experiment: The Buffest Heroes vs Dr Destroyer I actually ran an adventure just like this. It was the published Adventure combining Champions and SAS. Though I ran it with about 8 or 9 people all playing heroes in the 700-800 point range. It was a one shot, and I designed all the heroes based off all of the players most prominent previous character, but built to 700-800 point range. I also built them exactly how the players envisioned them, so if someone wanted to be able to teleport anywhere in the world, he had the capability. To let you all know the Heroes did win, but it wasn't a huge toast fest. Dr. D's offense is SO powerful even against such foes as these, where their defenses ranged in the 40-60 area, that one blast took the first hero out, in one shot, just as any other group he might encounter. Though in this case, he was defeated somewhat by the plot, because one of the characters was built of living energy, and had an ultimate sense with it. He could sense and distinguish every detail of all types of energy, so he saw the trap, the SAS villain had laid for Dr. D, and sprung it on him. BTW, the SAS grandvillain, didn't even last a full turn. Hell, the Iron Dynamo dude from SAS, the biggest threat, except for the 2 baddies in that adventure was beaten pretty easy, because one of the characters was strong enough to pick him up and throw him very far off the path.

Re: New Power build: Supernatural Invisibility Well, I wasn't exactly looking for a 100% official build, though I like to make characters as legal as possible, so I don't have to get GM approval for it. The idea of also giving the character some sort of Astral Sight, that is usable by others, is also a really good way to do this that I hadn't thought of, and wouldn't require a reworking of the existant Selective advantage, which is what I was suggesting in the first place as I had already mentioned that the existing Selective didn't really work this way. The only problem I see with it, is that you would also then have to make the sense ranged as well as usable by others, or am I wrong on that? I truely am an expert on the Hero System, but I have been away for several years, and as such I am really rusty.

First off I got on looking for the Online Super Powered Database. Was that taken down? I couldn't find it. Next, I am not looking for a build for this power, as I have one, but any ideas on why it might not work, or what might work better would be good. I am making an angelic character, and one common thing in fiction for this type of character to be able to do is to be invisible to others. Not only can they be invisible to others though, but they can be invisible to all except those they WANT to see them. The best way to do that I thought would simply be to add a Selective advantage to invisibility. The only problem, is that the current Selective is not so much an advantage, but an optional addition to the advantage Area Effect. I can't remember offhand, but I believe it is a +1/2 addition to the standard Area Effect. So I thought it would be fine to simply use Selective as a +1/2 advantage. Any thoughts on this?

Is it possible to block a move-thru?

OK, wait a minute... so your saying, that IF this is what happened, (EG. sample conversation, not even implied that it is real - DOJ exec, or GOO exec: "Ok its pretty much over, and Firewing has it by 7 votes. Hmm... round up 7 employees that didn't vote yet, and get them to vote the other way so it ends a tie.") then that would NOT be rigging the contest??? That is ludicrous. In fact though they didn't need to do this though, since to answer a previous question, No they didn't post the results to any of the contests I saw. This in fact is one of the many pieces of evidence I pointed out on the SAS Hero Showdown forum to help show the reasons I thought it was rigged. I for one don't really care if the contest was rigged or not. It was fun, and I believe it was, but I think it hardly matters if it was or not, it was an excellent publicity stunt one way or another, and it set up the crossover perfectly, just as you said. Which... hmm... was also another piece of evidence if I remember correctly. I think I mentioned when the team up option became available that it would set up the crossover perfectly, and that I think that was why it was thrown in. That and they couldn't make the biggest fool believe in yet another tie, when there wasn't one in all the matches before. Which brings me to my last point. Why is it that whenever someone says something that differs in the least from the company reps want said, people start jumping in with, thats insulting, or something like that, even when its not. I really don't think what Yamo said was remotely insulting. Why is it insulting to point out an obvious longshot. I mean, we don't even know the number of voters, but for sake of argument say there was 150, which there was probably more. The chances that both sides would come out exactly at 75 votes is a real longshot. To imply that is an obviousness, that you'd have to be daft not to see isn't insulting. In fact I think its insulting the way people jump all over someone who says what the companies involved don't want them to say. To me that seems like a company yes man, only most we see hear don't work for the company. In fact, that is probably the reason for comment on something being insulting. A person from whichever company is involved steps out and says something they don't like being said is insulting, and then all they have to do is step back and let all the fans tear the offender apart.

Well, I for one think it is rigged, but I am not throwing a hissy fit over it. I actually think it was a smart business move for them. A little deceptive, but except for comments like mine there is no downside to it. I even offered to retract my suspicions if either Dr. Destroyer or Kreuzritter wins, but I don't think that will happen. What I am wondering now though is; Why, after the contest has been supposedly over for days, they haven't announced the results yet. As far as taking on whole superhero teams goes though, Kreuzritter does that too, its just SAS is more set up like DC than Marvel, so they have some heroes capable of taking on villains of even that magnitude. Actually Marvel does too, but I always thought Champions seemed more Marvelesque than DCesque. They have some reaccurring villains in Marvel that are powerful enough to take on many heroes at once, even the powerful ones like Thor, but in DC, the most powerful reacurring bad guy as people like Darkseid, who even though he is as powerful as most ultra marvel baddies, and can take out whole teams, some of DC's Iconic characters like Superman can take him on one on one. Destroyer on the other hand, can take on more than hero teams though, he can nearly take on whole hero armies. And finally, as for Agent X, I agree Destroyer should win, but don't call me shirley.

There is really only one character in the new crew that I don't like. That is Ironclad. I think he just looks like a pansy. I mean what are those stupid little things on his head. They look to me like someone tried to rip off the Klingon look, and didn't do a good job. I preferred Obsidian, he was a cool brick. I also liked the guy from the NM team, though I can't remember his name. In fact, except for Team Defender I liked that guy best of the NM team. Of the originals there was two bricks they had Gargoyle, which I never got to know except for how he looked due to some internal problems with the company at the time, and Giant, who was pretty cool, but I preferred the others over him. I really like the new team except for Ironclad. Sure I liked Solitaire too, and wished she made it into the new team, but Witchcraft is pretty cool also.

I agree. Being that it is the easiest, if not the only quantifiable attribute then I always think that is the best place to start.

Time for my second session in the group, This one should be much shorter than the first two about the first session. Took two weeks for the second session, because I was busy last week. Last time we ended with Entropy leaving, and the PC's wondering who Karma was, as Until was disembarking their helicopter. Until tries to surround the group, and tells them to come with them to answer some questions, which the PC's don't want to do so they can get on with finding Karma, who they think is in the hands of Viper. Imp standing besides Esper teleports her away knowing Ki-Warrior can make it on his own. The Until agents shoot at Ki Warrior, but he is too fast and gets away. He calls for a pick up from Fred our VTOL jet's AI. The ship picks him up but is now being chased by an Until Chopper. Fred eventually outmanuevers the Until Chopper and gets away. Eventually everyone gets back to headquarters and away from Until including Hi-Tek who was in orbit when the rest of the group started resisting Until. They tell the Ghost, Mr. Henderson, about what has happened, and try to decide on a course of action, but determine they don't have enough information. They decide that whileKi Warrior is at his day job teaching the next day that HI-Tek, Esper and Imp will go confer with Until to compare note. Mr. Henderson checks with his contacts at Until to make sure they won't get arrested when they show up, and so they go there and try to patch things up from the night before. The get some information for Until but it really isn't very helpful, except that apparently when Until lost the ability to track Karma, they had discovered, that the trail the were tracking was bogus. Esper goes to MCU to update Ki Warrior, and Imp heads to some occult bookstores to try and find information on Karma, and Entropy. He has decided that these beings may be mystical entities, based on the the premise their name describes. Esper meets Ki Warrior and his class, and then afterward she talks briefly with him and they leave. On their way back to the mansion, they see a van driving very eratically, and then it swerves away and smashes into a bank. Four Viper Agents unload and enter the bank, leaving one in the drivers seat. Ki Warrior goes to park his car, inspiring the quote, "Hold them off while I feed the meter!" Then he notices that all the damage done to the van in the accident is fixed. When Esper gets to the bank she overhears an agent shout to the others as he sees her, "We got our target here guys, here it goes." Then he opens the door and shoots at her. A fight ensues, in which a viper agent is knocked out in the first round, though he hasn't been stunned. At the end of the first round they notice that agent is now again conscious. Several rounds go by with the PC's taking out agents and causing damage to their van, and then the agents would get back up, seemingly fully refreshed. One time Esper touched an agent and triggered her touch telepathy getting his surface thoughts, which told her that they were told to make a public robbing of a bank to draw out a super or two, and that Viper's new weapon would make it so they were invincible. They were told that Destiny would be on their side. By this point Esper decided that something was healing the agents as soon as they hurt them. Her and Ki Warrior thought it had something to do with the van, so she tried to read it, but found it a normal van. She wanted to get out of there sensing the fight at this point was an exercise in futility. Ki Warrior on the other hand, had other thoughts. He wanted the Viper agents, who at this point were very confident to think that even though the PC's couldn't beat them, they couldn't beat the PC's either, so he decided to go all defense, and defect all attacks, and reflect what he could. Imp who was notified about the situation at the beginning of the rucus, arrived by this point. and was watching. The leader of the five-team works her find weakness on Ki Warrior, and three of the other agents come out and shoot him while the fifth finishes up inside the bank. He deflects the shots and hits one of the agents, sending him into the van. Imp decides to join in and T-Ports down and pummels the four agents outside the bank, and T-ports back to the roof. The leader agent, seeing what happened to the others wishes she had a better weapon, and within a second her weapon changed to the one she wanted. Imp then T-Ports the van on top of an agents, and Ki Warrior takes the gun away from the leader. Esper scans one deeper to find out where the "weapon" is and finds that they don't know. Next the agents get back up, the leader wishes her gun back, and gets it, and shoots Ki Warrior with a small explosive blast. The agent with the van on him wishes he had the strength to get the van off him and then he starts to lift it, and throws it back where Imp was on the roof nailing him with the same tactic he used. The leader then shouts to the other what she learned, "We get what we wish for guys, so wish whatever you can to get these guys out of here." a second later, Ki Warrior, and Esper was standing in one of Millenium Cities parks over 5 miles away. Imp was the only one there still, probably because of his own teleporting powers, and decided to let them go and tail them from a distance. Which he does, the Viper agents are chased by the police, but shrug them off easier than they did the PC's. Imp tails them to a park which is the park, where they skid to a halt, get out, and abandon the van and teleport away. Leaving Imp to wonder why they even drove away in the first place. He checks out the van,and finds a single $100 with security paint on it, and a note from an unhappy Viper agent that may apparently be a plant from Ghost. It tells them a location that may provide some clues to the whereabouts of Karma.

I picked Firewing too. It was my first inclination to pick Firewing, but then I read both stories, and was surprised by the power of General Winter. I still think Firewing's story better depicted both characters together. General Winter's story did depict General Winter better, but in that story Frewing seemed more like a bumbling oaf, than the way I envision him, so I chose the Champions story. It was also more convincing than the other one. I did like the conclusion of the battle in the SAS story, though it didn't make sense. Firewing can survive in the vacuum of space as well as any other environment, and his fire would not be doused by any water, so submerging him in water, for any amount of time would do no good. General Winter would have had to have crushed him into unconsciousness, and the water he submerged him in would have done nothing.

OK, my first game is done, and was when I posted the first post here. Here's how it went. I wanted to start things with a bang, so I started the first game with the group chasing some villains into a warehouse. They were downtown, and several memebers of PSI showed up close to where they were and started wreaking havok. (They had mentally found Esperz in the area, who they hunt and anted to capture, and they sent several members to capture her. She can't do as much to them, so they didn't expect too much trouble, especially when they would have her outnumbered 5 to 1. They didn't know she had friends too. So we began the game, after their initial encounter was over. Two of their initial number were defeated, and left for the police, as the rest of our team chased Mindslayer, Deuce, and Soulfire into a warehouse. They approached the warehouse, and Imp jumps the gun and T-Ports inside, only to find its really dark in there. He sees some movement on the other side of the warehouse though. Ki Warrior, and Esperz go to the door, while Hi-Tek flies over the roof to get a better perspective. When Ki Warrior opens the door slightly Imp can now see that Deuce is flying around on the opposite side of the warehouse, the movement he saw. She sees the door oppening and starts for it, then sees him and flies up shoving her hand into his chest causing extreme pain, or mental anguish, you might call it. Esperz flips on the lights, and now they can see Mindslayer hinding behind some boxes. On the table in front of her though, laid out in an assortment is a lot of what looks like really big fireworks. They also notice most of the boxes in the warehouse have various signs signifying the same thing. Mindslayer flings a couple of mind knives at Ki Warrior just missing him. Who responds by charging over with an attack of his own that misses. Imp T-Ports over and tries to Aport Mindslayer to the ceiling, but her Force Wall gets in his way, and he then T-ports to the ceiling, he then sees Soulfire hiding next to the office. Deuce Flies over to Ki Warrior and tries to touch him, but fails. Esperz, who is the only one who doesn't know what firworks are runs over and tries to touch Deuce, hits and scores some damage, but given Deuces psychic abilities, is met with strong resistance. Ki Warrior then tries to hit Deuce with a Ki Strike and his hands go right thru her. At this point Hi-Tek cuts a hole in the ceiling with his power staff and and lowers down. He is the only one who really stands a chance against Deuce since her intangible state is vulnerable to energy. Mindslayer shouts a curse at Esperz which basically tells her she is who they were after, and fires a knife at her hitting her, and doing 1 body and stun. Deuce sees Hi-Tek, and Soulfire and flies thru the hole that Hi-Tek made. Espers then attacks Mindslayer back thinking she might protect herself with he FW, but she keeps it trained on the boxes. Soulfire then shoots a fireball at the firworks where most the team is, and hits. Imp sees it though and tries to T-Ports for the door. The blast knocks Esperz, and Hi-Tek back, hurting Esperz more than Hi-Tek. It also hurts Ki Warrior, but he manages to stay on his feet. Ki Warrior then runs over and strikes Soulfire sending him realing back with one stun left. Esperz is stunned so can't act. Mindslayer blasts Esperz again getting a better result this time. Then all the fireworks explode. The Blast hits and blows thru Mindslayers FW knocking her back, but not hurting her incredibly. It also hurts Hi-Tek and Imp and Ki Warrior, knocking Imp to the ground. Ki Warrior Runs over to Esperz and applies a healing touch, and Imp gets up and Tports over to take Mindslayer out, and ends his attack, close to Soulfire. Hi-Tek flips up and flies after Deuce and fires at her missing. Ki Warrior then beats Imp over to Soulfire to finish knocking him unconscious. The team waits for the police, though Ki Warrior and Imp leave when they get their leaving Hi-Tek and Esperz to answer their questions. The team then gets a message from Ghost telling them he needs them at the mansion. So they head back to the Mansion. Ki Warrior's nephew, who doesn't know about Ki Warrior's superheroing asks to be read a bedtime story, so Ki Warrior misses the meeting Ghost asked the others to attend. The Ghost gathers the rest of the team in the Library to go over a mystic presence he has felt. He tells them that something is happening, he doesn't know what, but it deals with a force more powerful than any he has ever known. (Ghost has a mystical awareness keyed to certain cosmic forces) He says that something fell to Earth in Lake Eerie, and that he feels somehow Viper found out about it first, cause whatever was there is gone now and he feels it is now with Viper. He wants the team to go out to the landing site and see if they can get information. So the team heads for FRED there VTOL and heads out. When they get close to the area of the landing site though they are hailed off by UNTIL helicopters. So the VTOL opens its hatch and the team piles out onto an energy platform made by Hi-Tek. The Until Choppers still don't let them close to the area, so they go ashore as close as they can to the scene. Imp though teleports onto the side of one of the Until Choppers, and heads back with them. What most the team sees from a distance, and what Imp sees close up is about a dozen lights circling the area of the crash in the water. The lights are roughly human size and move somewhat randomly in a circular pattern around the area. Imp sees up close that these are some sort of ghostly personages. One suddenly veers course and goes thru the copter Imp is on and passes thru him. The Copter veered when it approached, and Imp feels a weird sensation when it passes thru him, which is somewhat painful. Meanwhile on the shoreline. The team wants more information so Hi-Tek taps into UNTIL radios and gets some of the information they have. Basically using their sofisticated equipment they detected a source of mystic energy crash down here ealrier in the evenning. They investigated and it was gone, but found an energy trail, which they followed via sub. The trail then split off into multiple trails, and eventually they fgured out they were being lead on a wild goose chase and then the trails disappeared. Shortly after that these ghostly like images appeared. They haven't been able to communicate with them yet, but they know they are insubstantial, but still cause problems when passing through there helicopters. After that the Ghostly images suddenly swirl together and shoot off in all directions. The UNTIL choppers try to follow, but their are only four Choppers and over a dozen images to follow. The team heads in the direction of the closest image and one of the UNTIL Choppers is after that one too. When it reaches the shoreline it forms feet underneath itself and appears solid and starts walking toward Millenium City. Our heroes get close to the area it is, and suddenly it ghosts out and sinks into the Earth. Esperz tries to use her postcognotion by touching the ground it sunk into and feels its presence below the surface, and suddenly a hand breaks the surface grabbing her arm, which causes her touch telepathy to go off. She gets mixed confused feelings from the ghost, and knows he is looking for something. When her mind touched his though it also hit some sort of barrier that caused pain for Esperz, though her own mental shields were enough to block most of it out. The figure then rose from the ground, became solid again, and looked at our heroes and said, "Karma." When our heroes asked what he said, "Take me to her." He emphasized the urgency of this by making a sword appear, and pointing it at the team. The team didn't know what he was talking about, and told him so, which he looked at quizzically. "What is this, don't know?" Esperz then put out her hand and offered to help find Karma, and when he took her hand their mental link became established again. Mentally she tried to question him. It seems this "Karma" is somewhat like a daughter to him, though not just him, but the others as well. When he commented asking what "don't know" is, he truely did not know what it was like to not know something. She got a great deal of confusion from him, and one of the side effects of her powers, the mental sympathy started to becaome apparent. She asked him what Karma looked like, which he responded with the absolute confusion with the idea of what something looks like. She got the feeling Karma wasn't really a name, but more what the person was, and this person who she had contact with, didn't know what identity is, only really the purpose of what something is. As such, Esperz started to lose sense of who she was. Before she started losing herself completely she asked him who he was, to which he responded, "Entropy" This came over stronger than mere contact with his mind did though and she reeled from the assault. This is where Imp ported in to grab her, but Entropy was faster than Imp thought and he flashed out with his sword and sent Imp flying backward, nearly knocking him unconscious. Hi-Tek then leaped in with an blade of his own made of energy, and tried to disarm Entropy, and failed. With their swords still locked, Ki Warrior stepped up and grabbed Esperz and pulled her from Entropy's grasp. dropping her safely on the other side of him. Entropy then lashed out with his sword and caught Ki Warrior unaware and sent him flying as well. In the distance they could see other Entropies now approaching. Esperz, tried to halt any further assaults and offered once more to take his hand. He extended it again, and their link was once again established. This time she tried to probe further, and got a bit more of an impression of what Entropy was. He isn't a he, and Karma is not his, or their daughter, but Entropy seems to be but a thought of a much more powerful entity. Karma is somewhat like a daughter to this Entropy, and that impression filtered down to these thoughts that the group is interacting with. This probing was wearing on Esperz though, and she tried a desperate act to help their lack of communication, she released all her mental shielding, and continued the telepathy in hopes he would then be able to get impressions from her. She took in pain from mentally touching Entropy, this time unshielded, but it seemed to work. Just as they other Entropies were close to reaching the rest of the group, they all stopped. All of there swords disappeared, and they turned insubstantial again and took off into the sky. Hi-Tek went off after them, and returned after they left our atmosphere. By this time the UNTIL copter had finished landing, near our group and troops started to get out to ask questions. This is what happened our first session. We wrapped it there cause it was a good stopping place and one of the group had to go to work in the morning. Right now it is confusing, but as the players learn more I will be able to tell you guys more too, and it should all become clear. Thanks for giving me the time to tell everyone about this, and I hope everyone finds it interesting.