Edsel

I am just happy to see myself on a discussion board where I actually have a higher post count than Al.

All of the rules needed to play the game are in the Hero 5th Edition Rules (aka FREd, Fifth Rules Edition). These are the core rules, it is the book you must have to play Champions, or any Hero setting.

 

The Champions book is a genre book, it contains lots of neat examples and discussions on how to run Hero system in a superhero setting. It is not absolutely essential but it is very useful. If you have the 4th Ed. BBB then the Champions book is somewhat analogous to the source book portion of that previous edition.

 

There are refinements and some (few) changes of the rules in 5th Edition over 4th Edition. Many powers and abilities are much better defined and expanded in the newer edition. IMHO it is well worth it.

 

I have played the old marvel super-heroes game, GURPS Supers, and the old Villians & Vigilantes games. And again IMHO FREd is the best of the best.

Originally posted by BNakagawa

Hey Edsel - You're calculating double knockback wrong.

 

The Body for Double Knockback is doubled BEFORE the Knockback roll, not after. FrED 165.

 

The 11d6 double KB averages 22 -7 = 15" knockback which is better than 11, assuming that your target doesn't have an incredible amount of Power Def + KB Resistance.

Oh. I'll have to research that when I get home from work. Its the way our group has been doing it for years. Everybody gets so used to doing it one way nobody ever bothers to checkup on it. Thanks for the catch.

Originally posted by BNakagawa

And for 66 active points, you could have a 11d6 Dispel vs Knockback Resistance , Does KB (+1/4) Double KB (+3/4)

Yes, but a roll of 18 dice, on the average, produces 18 BODY - 2d6 (7 on average) = 11" KB.

 

11d6 (11) - 2d6 (7) = 4" x2 = 8" KB.

 

Thus, the first option usually is better. I used to think this was pretty cheezy but since an average EB in our game does between 12 and 14d6 its not really unbalanced.

 

To sum it up, and stay on topic, Does Knockback (+1/4) is not IMHO a over-valued power advantage. However I might agree that Double Knockback for (+3/4) could be a little pricy for the return.

If you want to see what the Excel sheets that I used for character creation look like, you can download a free viewer for Excel from Microsoft at the link below. The viewer will allow you to look at and print Excel files, but not change them. Its about a 3 Mb download.

 

Excel Reader

I ran a "Fringeworthy Hero" campaign once. Since the fringeworthy come from all walks of life, it was basically just a normals campaign. Each player created a pretty normal joe (or jane) and then got to add a couple of package deals that represented IDET training. It worked out pretty good. Very similar to a Morrow Project campaign I played in that used Hero System.

 

I've still got a lot of the Fringeworth stuff I made up in a zip archive on my computer. We use some house rules that boost firearms damage and generally make thing more deadly. I have various Mellor made up, equipment, firearms, some of the PCs, etc. a whole hodge-podge of stuff. Most everything is in Excel or Word. At 229Kb the file is a too big to attach here but if you want a copy of it you can email me Edsel . Better make the subject Fringeworthy so I can sort it from all the other traffic I get.

Does Knockback +1/4 -- Ouch!! What a waste. Since your attack that doesn't do knockabck will be a 10/dice attack or more anyway, you are hurting w/ this one. If you are using a 60-ish point attack, you'll roll 5 dice, for

 

Ah. But one of my supermages spells is a windjet spell: 18d6 Dispel vs. Knockback Resistance, Does KB (+1/4). It only costs 67 Active Points (we play a 70 AP max), and almost any foe is gonna be sent flying by this.

Originally posted by Zaratustra

It would be nice if the 2, 3, 4 and 5 had a differently-colored dot, and the 6 had two of those, painted in such a way that would make it easy to read both STUN and BODY.

 

Ooooooh! That's a good idea. I'd buy a set of them.

Originally posted by kirakane

Well an alternate plan is if you have fixed active point attacks is instead to match the special effect of the desolid character and become desol yourself since people with the same desolid special effect can effect each other just fine.

 

Desolid with varriable special effect only to match desolid effect of villians (-1/4), cannont go through walls (-1/2), cannot be used as a defense (-1). Would probably be pretty cheap and would fit in power structures well.

 

Also, an often overlooked part of the desolid power is that you have to choose something that can still effect you while desolid. So as a role playing point go find that out.

 

I like this. It's comming at the problem from a direction I had not thought of before. I think I'll write up a spell like this and run it past my GM for approval.

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

I know quite a few gamers who think that playing HERO is studying for an Algebra final.

I bought KS- Algebra for my character, that's enough study.

Originally posted by archer

Why not just try to figure out what his Desolidification doesn't protect against, then load up on that?

Actually I guess I should have made that plural "villians", there are several mystical-NPC bad guys who use this sort of ability. But your reply has led me to think of something. My character has the Analyze Magic skill, KS- Magic, KS- Magical Para-normals, etc. Perhaps I should see if the GM will allow me to Analyze the Desoild spell being used to discover its weakness.

The character I run in our champions campaign is a mage. My character is built with a VPP. One of the situations our group has encountered is a villian who will go desolid to avoid attacks. Of course to counter this in the past I have bought attacks that affect desolid. The problem is that the power level of such attacks are, necessarily, lower since the advantage must be paid for. However, the villians defenses are no lower when he is desoild so such attacks are usually woefully ineffective. One solution I have come up with is to buy an NND attack whose defense is Not Being Desolid. Do you think this is an overly cheezy thing to try and get away with?

 

For that matter the whole NND issue is full of opertunities for cheeziness. Take for instance the Fast Nutreno Rifle from the Old Star Hero book, an NND attack whose defense is having less than 5 points of resistant PD. Where should you draw the line?

First of all thanks for all the time and effort you put into answering all of these questions. I've learned a lot just following these posts.

As for my question. Perhaps I am misunderstanding something here. Deejmister just asked the following question and got the listed reply.

 

If a character has Desolidification bought to 0 End, can he take a recovery in a phase that he starts out desolid?

 

A. Yes

But when I check the FAQ for this I found the following.

 

Q: Can a character maintain a Constant Power and still take a Recovery on one of his Phases? Can he do so if the Constant Power costs no END, or if it’s Persistent?

Can a character turn off or deactivate a power in the same Phase when he takes a Recovery?

 

A: As described on 5E 285, a character who chooses to take a Recovery as an Action may do nothing else that Phase — not even Actions that take no time, or Actions that cost no END. Therefore he cannot maintain a Constant power and take a Recovery, even if the power costs no END. However, if the power is Persistent, he can maintain it and still take a Recovery.

A character may take a Zero-Phase Action to turn a power off (either consciously or by stopping paying END) at the beginning of a Phase in which he declares that he will take a Recovery; that’s an exception to the rule that he cannot take any Actions, and of course represents the fact that he’s “relaxing†completely for a Phase. He could then, on his next Phase, use a Zero-Phase Action to activate the power again.

These seem contradictory to me. The way I read it Desolid is a Constant power and therefore you cannot take a recovery while the power is active, even if bought to 0 END, unless you buy it Persistant as well.

However the answer to the question seems to indicate that having bought the Recovery to 0 END cost is enough to allow it. Which is correct?

Magic is very common in our champions game. My own character, Enigma, is a super-mage. I have a couple of mystical enemies and contacts in the mystic world. Currently Morgan LeFay has been relased from a centuries-long imprisonment and has picked up some lackies, such as Black Paladin, and so there is at least one mystical supervillan group.

 

Most magic in our campaign use VPP. My own character is one of the few who does not have the limitation Known Spells Only. All magic requires skill rolls to use and all of it generally costs END to use.

Good job Yamo.

Perhaps it should be done as a dispel vs. SPD. The average human is SPD 2 therefore a 8d6 Dispel should easily take them to 0 SPD. Of course you'd have to make it continous, maybe something with 1-hour continuing charges or something like that.

 

Anyway a character with 0 SPD is frozen in place and can't do anything but take post PHA 12 recoveries. But as to whether or not they are able to perceive, that's not addressed as far as I can find.

 

An NND EB vs. Flash Defence might work, you could always say the SFX is the target is just frozen in place instead of falling down when rendered unconscious.

 

Its late now or I'd work on it some more but alas I have to work tomorrow. If the topic is still active perhaps I'll come up with something by then.

I have always prefered the old original Armory book. The Edge of the Sword only deals with modern firearms. Having the old stuff, like flintlocks, for compairison is often quite useful. I've got both of those books stashed around here somewhere.

If it is a gun firing bullets it should be bought with the Beam limitation anyway.

A super-mage has the power Escape Clause as given in the rules book (page 149 sidebar), but has "improved" it to allow the mage and his lackies to escape at once. It has the UBO x8 and AE Selective Advantages.

 

In battle the mage and followers are loosing so he decides it is time for them to leave and activates the power. All the lackies are in the AE, and conscious, but one is currently being held by an enemy, will that lacky also be able to escape via teleportation? Will they inadvertently take the grappling character with them? Is this all a GM call?

I remember the movie, here's how I'd do it.

 

4d6 Entangle (40 Act. Pts), Takes No Damage from Physical Attacks (+1/4), Works against EGO, Not STR (+1/4), Limited: No Effect Against Targets w/Visual Flash Defense or Those Who Avert Their Eyes (-1/4), OAF: Gun (-1), Limited: Any Significant Physical Contact Will Free Target (-1/2), 12 Charges (-1/4).

Active Point: 60, Real Points: 20

 

The entangle takes no damage from physical attacks, so no physical (or energy) attack possessed by the victim can be used for breakout. Since it works against EGO, a high STR is no aid to escape, EGO is used as STR in escape attempts and 4d6 is enough to hold most normal (any many non-mental paranormals fast). It is ineffective against those who have any sort of visual flash defense (goggles, etc.) and since you can also avoid the attack by averting your eyes it works like a flash attack against targets for purposes of hitting (note I gave this a -1/4 limitation value but that's a GM caveat). I limited the attack so that any Significant physical attack will break the entangle. A gentle touch won't do it, but a slap would, I give this a -1/2 limitation since it makes the victim capable of being freed by about anybody (again a GM caveat).

 

You could further reduce the cost of the attack by giving it the Reduced by Range Limitation; I seem to remember that these things were pretty limited in range. I don't think they were very limited by ammo so I gave them 12 shots. You might want to consider an Area Effect advantage of some sort, again I don't remember if they could affect multiple targets with one shot (perhaps an AE cone).

 

SFX of the attack is a flash and the odd little noise they made when fired. You'll have to rule that the effect wears off after an unspecified period of time, that'll be a GM call. The attack can be reflected off light reflecting surfaces (mirrors and the like).

Originally posted by Monolith

Any power which costs END is visible to 3 senses. Armor, on the other hand, is invisible and can take the Visible Limitation.

 

And, I might add, this would apply even if the Force Field were bought to 0 END Cost. It would still be visible unless you bought invisible power effects for it.

Originally posted by Old Man

I think the distinction with the new S&W .50 is that it's a .50 magnum. I don't see how a normal human could fire one without snapping their wrist, but whatever.

 

The same article mentioned that they're also producing an alloy .44 magnum revolver that weighs 1.5 pounds. See my wrist snapping comment above.

 

I have a Colt Anaconda .44 magnum revolver and I can control it one-handed with +P ammo. I don't really consider myself to be of more than average strength so I think a .50 .magnum would be controllable with a two-handed stance.

If we are on the subject of group names. . .

 

In my longest running campaign, which is currently paused but it will rise again, the team goes by the name the Omega Team. I think that they came up with a pretty good name for a street-level Dark Champions vigilante group.

 

Their logic seemed to be that they were the final option when justice had failed.

Originally posted by Keneton

Linked triggerd NND that Does body

 

I agree with this but I'll elaborate a bit. Assuming that the effect you are trying to model is a simple APEX pistol or rifle round, I'd buy it as an Armor Piercing attack and then buy a linked NND thats defense is not taking BODY from the AP portion of the attack. The logic being if the AP portion of the attack fails to do BODY damage then it did not penetrate and the explosive effect is for naught. On the other hand if the projectile does BODY it has gotten inside the target's Defenses and therefore there is no protection vs. the explosive portion of the attack.

Here's one of my current superhero mystic.