SleepyDrug

Dark Champions has a great review of the relevent US laws and how the existance of supers might play out in the legal world. It is worth getting for this alone.

The Highlights:

Important laws reviewed: Aggravated Assault, Concealing your Identity in Public (anti-mask laws aimed originally at bank robbers), Reckless Endangerment, Excessive Force; also possible laws banning specific powers and superhuman registration laws.

Defense to Crimes

Ammendments: 2nd (weapons), 8th (cruel & unusual punishments), 13th (slavery and compulsion), 14th (due process to all people)....it is this last that the definition of a person becomes important. This legal definition governs all non-human aliens, artificial intelligence computers, androids, robots, mutants, atlanteans or divergent human species, mutates or altered humans, clones, genetic constructs, and other forms of argueably not human lifeforms.

From Marvel Comics: Return from the Dead laws and treaties preventing super-humans from serving as part of a conventional military force.

I like the powers available at set levels trend in the Disciplines. It adds something to know that only a vampire with the fifth level in a Discipline can possess a power that allows him to become desolid.

What I never liked was the idea that the lower levels are fixed and the higher levels have variety. You'd think the lower levels, which are more common, would have been more throughly explored.

In my campaign world we came up with additional low level powers creating a list of powers with 2-3 available at every level for all Disciplines.

Harpoon

1 1/2d6 HKA, Ranged (can be thrown), 13 STR Min

from Fantasy HERO 4th edition

all other advantages and limitations as per Real Weapon rules

I'd say clairsentience combined with 360 to give multiple viewing locations at once.

I'm new to this discussion. Please excuse any repetitivness.

First off, very nice job on the conversion. A few questions that may have been previously asked.

1) Do you have a guestimate of when the symbol font mess up will be corrected on the vampire page? I can't seem to do anything with it.

2) How many different conversions are being discussed here?

3) What is the thoughts behind the WW level system and point cost. Was it just decided not to worry about more costly powers in HERO being lower level then other powers?

Area of Effect: Any Area, Reduced by Range

season to taste

Remember, pro wrestling == fake. Really GOOD fake, sometimes, but fake nonetheless. If, on the other hand, you want it to be REAL, a professional wrestling/shootfighting competition, then of course everything is real, accellerate to full, add maybe an inch to leaps, two inches to running when they're coming off the ropes...

I love doing conversions. For this conversion, i am designing it as a pro wrestling/shoot-fighting setting. All real, throttle to full type of stuff. So, in that case, how much leap should a Jeff Hardy or a Rey Mysterio be packing. Remember, a Swanton Bomb is supposed to take the fight out of anyone short of Kane.

Actually, I would suggest that you change the scale altogether! I know it's blasphemy, but think about it: Hero system includes large scale combat, running far way from each other, sniping, flying, etc. Not things that happen in a WWE bought. I say that you scale back WWE hero "Inches" to less than 2 meters.

This has merit. A half-hex scale might be a good idea. The system already allows for super-sized hexes in the mass combat rules. So I see no problem with this for a setting specific rule.

I do think we still need some sort ruling to disassociate Leaping from Strength. I have a hard time seeing the Big Show or Kane out flying the Hurricane or Rey Mysterio despite the fact that a super-heavyweight is far stronger.

Thanks for the link.

Lots of good stuff in there.

This is a continuation of a thread that was on the Hero System page. In a nutshell, we were discussing converting Pro Wrestlers to HERO. Why? Why not.

The latest question for Herodom is Ring Sizes and Movement based martial arts.

A standard WWE ring is roughly 3 hexes by 3 hexes. Is this sufficient to reflect what happens accurately and does it leave enough room for acceleration?

Spin Off Thought: velocity based martial arts manuevers and top room moves. How much Leap can be added for a Shooting Star Press or Frog Splash, for example?

Thoughts?

I'm looking at this from a stand point of wrestlers actually fighting.

And I've seen lots of great ideas on this thread so far.

New thought: taunting and crowds. This seems to juice wrestlers up and many "recover" faster when they have the crowd behind them or they do a taught.

I'm thinking an Aid with Gestures and/or uncontrolled. Ideas?

Now it depends on what sort of universe you want to run.

A Marvel-style campaign centers on cities with 10 million + people.

A DC style city focues on major cities under fictional names. Flash is in St. Louis, if you think about it. Wonder Woman in DC, Martian Manhunter in Denver..

Champions universe centers in a fictional mega city.

Question is, is my logic flawed? or just not suited to your universe?

I still prefer avoiding the use of powers if possible. I think most moves are best represented as martial arts maneuvers with possible damage classes. For many moves, this is a necessity (submission moves).

Back to the strength issue. Lifting moves come in two types, moves that the wrestler needs to lift the victim and immediately drop him (suplexes, power slams) and moves the wrestler lifts and holds the victim before dropping him (military press, F-5, Power Bomb).

what if each move had a str min, like weapons do. A suplex requires much less strength then an F-5. Goldberg once held the Big Show up for the Jackhammer with one hand.

I do like the idea of dropping Hit Locations and just assigning SFX and appropriate damage.

Also, while in real life the moves are often pulled. For a game, i'd want to write it up as "in character" so to speak.

Wait a moment and consider the power level question. If we have 279 villains, most of them will be on the lower end of the power structure. Important next question?

So what would be the breakdown of power levels?

Omega-class (1000+ point world threatening villains) 1% or 3 supers. Examples: Count Nefaria or Ultron

Alpha-class (300 to 1000 point first string) 24% or 67 supers. Examples: Diablo, Dr Octopus, Hobgoblin, Absorbing Man, Titania, Wrecker, Speed Demon

Beta-class (200 to 300 point second stringers) 35% or 98 supers. Examples: Shocker, Trapster, Constrictor

Gamma-class (150 to 200 point third stringers) 20% or 56 supers. Examples: Discus, Stiletto

Delta-class (100 to 150 point super lackeys) 20% or 56 supers. Examples: Split Second Squad.

If we are talking about a Marvel Universe NYC, i think these numbers are accurate. If we're in a more DC style place, we need to reduce them slightly because DC has a weak villain population. But adjusting the Population Density figure solves this problem nicely. Also, spillage is likely to be global in many cases, especially the higher point value villains. Most Omega's are worldwide villains. Consider, Dr Doom, Magneto, Mandarin in Marvel or Mordru, Obsidian, Injustice Gang in DC.

Excellent points.

I had worked it out from a national stand point. But you could do it on a city by city stand point.

What I was thinking of with the nomadic comment is that a villain will gladly relocate if prospects are poor in his hometown. For example, in Marvel both Pyro and Boomerang left Australia for the US because work is better in the states.

Moving on: this now gives us:

Population (base number) adjusted for Population Density

< 1 million = 1 per million

1-2 million = 1 per 750,000

2-3 million = 1 per 500,000

3-5 million = 1 per 100,000

5 million + = 1 per 50,000

Crime Center (modifier) +5%

Cultural/Media Center (modifier) +5%

Exotic Population (modifier) +5%

Exotic/Mutagenic Resource (modifier) +10%

Gateway/Port City (modifier) +5%

Information Resource (modifier) +10%

Martial Arts tradition (modifier) +15%

Military/Law Enforcement Center (modifier) +5%

Monetary Focus (modifier) +5%

Mystic tradition (modifier) +10%

Political Center (modifier) +5%

Technological Center (modifer) +15%

Do these figures work? and are we missing any important modifier catagories?

Lets experiment: New York City

18 million including metropolitan area = 360 Supers

Crime Center, Cultural Center, Exotic Population, Gateway City, Information Resource, Monetary Focus, Political Center, Tech Center = +55% total modifier

Total Super Population = 558

About right if we're in the Marvel Universe. The Density figures could be adjusted depending on what sort of universe you desire. Thoughts?

1) Lifting big/heavy people

I was refering to the rule that a martial artist can lift for purposes of a throw, for example, anyone whose weight is within the limit they can lift with their pushed strength. They don't actually need to push to do this.

As a real world example, the Big Show (7'1" and 500 lbs) has been lifted (and held up) by Brock Lesner and Kane. That's it. Kurt Angle did pop Show onto his shoulders for an Angle Slam (he positions himself under the person's left arm, lifts him up over his head and then falls backward and slams the person into the mat).

2) hit locations. just going with it is possible. But to continue using the Choke Slam example, you pretty much have to screw it up for someone to land on an arm. The victim is lifted into the air by the throat and slammed, back first, into the mat. Arms are not used to block this.

3) Tapping Out. Another alternative is to have submission moves do no damage but to keep track for purposes of "tapping out". If Stun - SubmissionStun = 0 or less, the person taps out. Remember, people will pass out from neck submission moves such as a Tazzmission or Crossface; these could be normal NND Choke Holds.

4) New Topic: Signature and Finisher moves. These are trademark moves that always seem to be more damaging when the wrestler does them. Example, a Power Bomb. Basic power move performed by many people. The Undertaker's Last Ride is a modified Power Bomb and is far more damaging then other power bombs.

My Idea: don't forget hit locations. also, damage classes or csl's with that move so it really is more powerful.

5) Pins. There isn't really anything in the current rules (i'm looking at the 4th ed UMA list) that simulates pins well. A basic pin is just covering the person with no strength bonus. But cradle pins such as a small package or school boy, or hooking a leg should give a bonus.

My idea: just make some new moves based on the grab rules.

This is one of the best threads i've seen in awhile. I thought i'd toss out my thoughts. I also play vampire a lot and i found an article that suggested population density should be as important a factor as population. I think this holds for HERO because high density areas are also high crime areas.

My favorite digital hero article (now lost to the ravages of time) suggested adding other factors to that. My best attempt to reconstuct the list of modifiers gives us:

Population (base number)

Population Density (modifier)

Technological Center (modifier)

Research Center (modifier)

Toxic/Radioactive Storage or Source (modifier)

Academic Center (modifier)

Martial Arts tradition (modifier)

Mystic tradition (modifier)

Wealthy (modifier)

Impovershed (modifier)

Villains will relocate to where the money is and most super-villains will probably be nomadic. Heroes will base out of the large cities that are crime centers and have the resources they need.

This is a spin-off from the Submission Holds thread.

On the matter of "tapping out" or forcing another fighter to give due to pain. I favor some sort of EGO roll with a penalty for the damage inflicted.

I love designing stuff for HERO and watch WWE so a couple of times i've fooled around with writing up wrestlers. I've encountered the following problems.

1) Lifting difficulties and normal human strength levels. For example, Cruiserweight guy with a 14 strength should not, in a PW setting, be able to lift the Giant. Even though the Giant is within his pushed STR at 500 lbs.

My Idea: have a weight stat (bought as a talent) and disallow pushed strength for lifting/throwing another; use actual strength.

2) Hit locations. Example: a choke slam should damage the head/neck/shoulders area. This would give it a 3-9 hit location roll. But i don't want the arms in my choke slam hit location.

My Idea: no idea.

3) Designing moves. This is the easy part. although i'm still pondering between using passing strikes or some other move for top rope aerial stuff.

Thoughts?

Question: the Excalibur class Battleship isn't listed, or did I miss it?

I just wanted to say very nice job.

What does the Hotshot Pilot talent do? And why is this not simply skill levels or combat pilot?

Suggestion for your skill list: in my Star Hero/Star Wars game we use an Intellect skill called Combat Helmsman as the capital ship equivalent to combat pilot.

Marvel Comics has touched on this a few times. In different places it is mentioned that

1) Supers were part of the Nuclear Treaty talks and are not allowed to join conventional armies because they are considered WMD's.

2) Contingency plans were designed by NATO and other military alliances for dealing with individuals such as Magneto.

Also from comics:

Spandex

Alphas, Omegas, Betas - power rating terms

To do what?

I was wondering if someone could help me with this. Just before the old hero boards crashed there was a discussion on Flight/Only in Contact with a Surface. During the discussion i suggested using Running with an advantage or adder tacked on. I don't have that info and would like to see the thread. Does anyone know where I can find it?

I generally follow the book's guidelines. I've found that those work best. Tinkering with point numbers for characters has always gotten me in trouble in the past.

I have Attribute Range Guidelines that I developed for converting comic book characters. This is not a "Rule of X" thing but more of a chart comparing 80 popular comic book characters so i can use it as a reference for creating or converting other characters.

I use a Presence Defense Attribute (PrD = EGO/2 + PRE/2; +2 PrD for 1 point)

I use modifications to Entangle and Shape Shift that other people on this board have suggested. Thats it. Most of my house rules covered items that 5th ed includes but were not in 4th ed; so i don't need them anymore.