CaptD

Re: Would you allow this? So in effect in your game you are increasing the cost of the adder from 5-1000+ points. The low end would be to add analyze DNA to Sight or Touch group, and On the High end a large enough VPP to take on all the powers of the subject. "I touched Dr.Destroyer!! Sorry your VPP is only 1000pts and he costs more than that!"

Re: Would you allow this? The Cellular Adder changes the character's DNA. The imitation ADDER allows him to mimic his subjects DNA. If he has changed his DNA and To mimic someone elses DNA. Why isn't it LIKE the subjects? This isn't just masking his DNA it is a change down to the cellular level.

Re: Would you allow this? So how many of you would be happier if the guy soent the 5 pts to get analyze DNA based on the touch sense group?

Re: Would you allow this? P.S. I'm usually a very restricting GM. I'm trying to get over that.

Re: Would you allow this? Basically, we are arguing SFX and not mechanics at this point. Mechanics always trump SFX. The powers does not outlaw any of this. As matter of fact the power actually doesn't require touch. I had the character put the touch limitation on that adder. This is because I had a hard time seeing someone getting DNA information from sight without enhanced or unusal senses. The power doesn't specify what senses you need to use. I concede that is seems unreasonable to have an exact replica of the dog or person. He knew it was a dog by the way They did some tests on the hair before he tried to do the shift. He used the DNA information to fill in the gaps and emulate the "breed" which didn't produce an exact copy of the dog. But it was acurate enough to get a decent enough representation of what the dog might look like. If he does this on a human he could get hair color. (He could get that by just looking at the hair by the way. He might get the sex. He might even get eye color. Would he get an exact replica of the man. Probably not...he doesn't know what the guy weighs (which would change appearance drastically. He wouldn't know if the guy has a beard or mustache. I also trust my players. All of them are GMs. They know when they are doinf something unbalancing. And I can just say no and that would be it. I have no problem strecthing powers a little in non critical situations. In this case going by the mechanics it is perfectly legal. Could be unbalancing in the game? Sure if I let it. Couldn't mental powers do the same? Yes! I will repeat what I said in an earlier post. A player thought of an innovative thing and I rewarded it. When he actually sees the dog in question he might see some things he got wrong. He has the building blocks for the animal in his hand. He knows what a dog genrally looks like. He guesses on some of the features. From real world experience a german shepard looks like a german shepard. For an exotic breed that the criminology has no record of that makes it harder. The writer of that power says its up to the GM an player. He has told me flat out "No" before. No explanation...lol...just "No". If he doesn't see a huge problem with it then I don't either. I started this post to get other opinions from other GMs. And I appreciate all of the feedback. It has given me enough information to help form my opinions. And I have enough to know how to handle this in the future. In my game I tend to make the Super Heros "Super" and the Heroic players heroic. If you don't like the way this power was used or you don't like the way the power is written, its sounds like a perfect time to write a house rule. I have some of my own. I don't like powers with variable SFX or variable advantages. I also don't allow PCs damage reduction unless there are special cases. And even then I never let it do past 25%. It is a game, I made an on the spot decision. He had fun, I had fun ,and the pther players had fun. I came here and posted this because I know the precedant it sets and I needed enough feedback to keep it from being unbalancing. Thank you again for letting me come here and bouncing ideas and questions off of you.

Re: Are Hero characters too rugged? You can implement the injury, impairing rules and that would take care of your concerns I think. Also the Bleeding Rules. Hit locations are good too. I will use these for heroic, not as much for super heroic.

Re: Would you allow this? Here's How Steve Weighed in: Hmmm, interesting question. That’s up to the GM. The Cellular Adder allows a character to Shape Shift down to the most minute levels, including his DNA. With the Imitation Adder allows him to mimic others, including others’ DNA, fingerprints, and the like. As noted under the description of the Imitation Adder on page 49 of UMM, “Common sense, logic, and game balance dictate there has to be some reasonable grounds for copying someone — for example, just saying “I want to copy George Washington’s DNA” isn’t enough, there’d have to be some reasonable basis on which someone could form a copy (e.g., maybe the subject to be copied has to be within Line Of Sight, or previously copied).” Whether possessing a hair from a person is sufficient to allow copying is a matter for GM interpretation. (“Realistically,” as noted on page 160 of Dark Champions, hair at best contains small amounts of DNA; a single hair, or even several, might not be enough for accurate Imitation even if the GM would otherwise allow it.) __________________ Steve Long HERO System Line Developer

A metamorph player in our group has shapeshift. He has almost every option in it including Cellular and imitate (has to touch the subject to imitate DNA.) During an investigation they find an unusual hair that the criminology lab finds that it is canine in nature(the lab is not able to discern the breed). He picks it up and trys to find out what it is by using the DNA in the hair. Would you allow him to shape shift into the appearance of the creature based in the DNA in the hair?

Re: Would you allow this? As far as the HKA goes, he bought that to imitate bites/claws

Re: Would you allow this? Tech, I think it was starbucks.

Re: The Heart of Hero I use Hero Designer now, but I've been playing since the original blue box version. Hero Designer wasn't around then. So, the Calculator was essential...lol

Re: Would you allow this? I would say yes Hugh. If he uses the DNA adder. By sight this character wouldn't be able to tell that unless he plucked some hair and looked at the root (usually original color is at the root unless it was just dyed.) This character that we have been talking about has to actually touch the person in question to use the DNA adder. I didn't want it to be used by sight alone.

Re: I'll mimic your powers.. what? That's impossible! I can't! How about a supress or a dispell. It won't stop them but they won't be able to use them. Supress always on will stop them.

Re: Would you allow this? It wasn't a major plot point in the story. They found the hair because it was more foreshadowing. They were supposed to put it together in the end. The player surprised me with an innovative idea and I awarded it. I also let him know yesterday the extent that this work. Largely influenced by this board. I like the..."you can get the general idea of what it looks like but not specifically route." Also, if he wants to do it to find a killer or villian its a good plot device for me. I can give general ideas about who they are looking for. Hehe, has anyone thought of what happens if he uses that ability on someone with a genetic disorder. It could come up if its overused. Sorry, evil GM coming out.

Re: The Heart of Hero It's the calculator that sits beside you when you make a new character.

Re: Would you allow this? Maur, You might not want to allow the adder into your game: Cellular: Shape Shift ordinarily only affects the character’s outward appearance (broadly speaking). His basic identifying characteristics — DNA, fingerprints, retina prints, and the like — remain unchanged. With this +10 Character Points Adder, Shape Shift works down to the most minute levels of a character’s body. His DNA, fingerprints, retina prints, and so forth all change (though the character needs Imitation to make them mimic those of someone else). This combined with imitation allow alot of possibilities. I think from the previous posts I would allow him to turn into a Dog, one that looks simular to the ones that are being used. NOT the exact dog. If he uses it on human DNA he might get hair color and someone that has simular traits. If he knows what the person looks like And touches him (thats a naked limitation we put on the DNA adder). He can do a convincing imitation of the subject. Down to the fingerprints. This is a superhero game and there is a fair amount of rubber science. I didn't mean to turn this into a heredity vs envronment debate.

Re: Would you allow this? lol Nekkid

Re: Would you allow this? BDH, I love that signature...lol

Re: Would you allow this? I think when they do see the actual dogs I will comment that he came close but not exact. As far as SFX. His true form is an amporhus blob...much like ODO from DS9. He walks around in a human form. He has a 90pts into Shapeshifting, also Growing, shrinking, flight (for wings if need be). Stretching, HTH dmamge, and HKA damage (Claws)

Re: Would you allow this? Also, after I allowed the Dog. The Player joked that he can flatten himself over the floor and pick up the skin particles. I told him no. lol

Re: Would you allow this? I see the potential for abuse in this. The reason the criminology tests didn't Identify the breed is because it isn't a known breed. Special type of beast. They did show that it came up as a part of the Canis Familiarus family. As far as why I was posting it, was just to compare notes with other GMs to see how they would have handled it. I kept it vague so we don't get off on other tangents. This is a case of Iron shaprening Iron in my opinion. I didn't expect the player to do it, and I had to make a quick ruling. lol Also, I kinda liked the creativity he showed.

Re: Would you allow this? Btw, thanks for all the input!

Re: Would you allow this? It wasn't a mystery solving moment or a story breaker either. That weighs into my decisions alot as well. It just gave them an idea of what the Dogs looked like that a Villian uses.

Re: Would you allow this? Okay, some of you are on board with my decision and some not. I wouldn't allow the guy to sneak into a bathroom and pull hairs off the brush and turn into the people who use the brush. But I allowed the dog.

Re: Would you allow this? Eternal, This was to get a general idea of what the dog looked like. The criminology tests couldn't identify the breed.