Tonio

Re: PRE Drains What about "ruling" (read: suggesting the system be changed ) that PRE is used for attacks (that is, PRE attacks), EGO to defend, always? Not sure that'd work, especially given contested PRE-based skill rolls...

Re: Lewis Carrol Hero

Re: PRE Drains I actually LIKE most of the D&D concepts, worlds, etc. It's the system I don't like too much. Some campaign settings are especially good, like Dark Sun.

Re: Range Based on STR "a" <-- SFX giving a distinct, mechanical disadvantage... bad "b" <-- he needn't be, to have more range "c" <-- o_O "d" <-- yes, but hammurz r more full of win, kthxbai "e" <-- no points left, and I'd need too much to equal his range "f" <-- but then so can he, and still have more range than me "g" <-- but I wanna be like Thor!!! *whine* Oh gawd, don't we all...

Re: Range Based on STR I certainly do get your point, Kdansky. It's something that's always irked me about HERO, but I haven't found a satisfactory solution, besides making the whole thing more linear, less granular, by getting rid of Lim/Adv breakpoints, and using straight decimals, so that you could have a -0.230183 Limitation or a +sqrt(3*pi) Advantage. It's just that in the case of Range, it's more evident since there's even less linearity than with Charges. I can certainly foresee problems with less-than-ideal players (e.g. "*whine* But why does my thrown hammer have a shorter reach than his thrown daggers, if we paid the same?!"). =/

Re: Range Based on STR Hm, true... it's a form of Limited Range. On the other hand, I also dislike the lack of specificity (ok, I made up a word) on Limited Range... a power that can reach 3" away costs the same as if it could reach 30" away? =/ Then again, the system is just too granular to have it be otherwise... 1/2 is full/no range, 0 is normal, so it HAS to be 1/4 for any sort of limited range. =/

I have issues with this Advantage/Limitation. It seems to me a static value for this (+/- 1/4) doesn't take into consideration the weight of the "object", making it too dependent on SFX. If I define my RKA as "throwing energy shuriken (which weigh next to nothing)", I'll get a much more effective power than if I define it as "throwing superdense neutronium spheres (which are absurdly heavy)", even though they cost the same. But given that Ranged is a +1/2 Advantage, and No Range is -1/2, there's no space for adjusting the value for heavier/lighter objects. How do you deal with this?

Re: PRE Drains Houserule? If so, sounds like one I'd adopt. If not, where is it?

Re: PRE Drains

Re: The Cost of STR & Other Characteristics: An open discussion Another "extra effect" of STR is that it also serves as a defense, of sorts, since it's used in STR vs STR contests, while ranged attacks have no such counterpart. A ranged attack is only used for attacking others at range. STR is not only used to attack others without range, it's also used to grab, disarm, etc. AND to resist such grabs, disarms, etc. Consider Energyman and Powergal trying to disarm each other (say both their powers come from OAF's). Powergal will disarm Energyman almost surely (full STR vs piddly STR), while Energyman will have a more even contest (full EB pseudo-STR vs full STR).

Re: PRE Drains

Re: PRE Drains Oops... sorry about this, I was wrong! Anyway, the power I'm talking about is not the power to impress someone, but the power to make someone more impressionable (by anybody or anything). For example, the power to make someone nervous and afraid (but not "flee in terror" afraid). PRE attacks based on fear or startling would be more effective against the target of this power, but not just PRE attacks originated by the power owner, so extra PRE, Reputation, PRE Aids, etc. don't really model the effect properly, I think. Mind Control seems excessive, and appears too "loose" (So if I acheive EGO + 20, how much more effective are PRE attacks against this guy?). Transform is too permanent and long-lasting. If PRE were split into OPRE and DPRE (Offensive and Defensive Presence) -- and please not I'm NOT suggesting this should be done! -- the effect would be perfectly modelled by a DPRE Drain or Suppress, given that only DPRE were used to resist PRE attacks, not EGO. I could be creating a problem where none exists... I just think that having to drain two "defenses" to an attack (EGO and PRE), with the side effect that you drain two offensive capabilities (PRE for PRE Attacks, EGO for OECV), and one additional defense (DECV), seems cumbersome and too broad.

Re: Combat, Aborting & Phases I don't find it reasonable that your action (the one you Aborted to) stops working because normally you would've been able to do something else... You don't suddenly stop dodging, you simply can't do anything else until later in the Turn. Basically, the only point in time where you are forced to be doing absolutely nothing is during Surprise. The rest of the time, you're doing whatever you were doing, until you do something else. So you're dodging not until you normally would've had a Phase, but until you perform some other action.

Re: Would you allow this mental power? I would group mind flayers under humanoids (as I would orcs, bugbears, gnolls, etc.). Sure, they're powerful and ugly, but so's your mo-- I mean, so are other humanoids. Undead should have their own class of minds (substituting the "Machine" class of minds for a Fantasy campaign, I'd say), and so should Outsiders (which would include Demons, Extra-Planar Humanoids, and other such creatures... this'd be the Alien class for Fantasy). I'd probably add a Plant class for Fantasy, for all those celluloid creatures.

Re: Your Palm Tools? Hey, at least you HAVE one. Me, I'm waiting for iPod Touch to go down to $10 or something so I can buy me one. =/

Re: Combat, Aborting & Phases Yeah, he can't Abort again until the Segment after the one where he'd have his Phase, but that doesn't address whether his bonuses from his current action apply or not. =)

Re: Combat, Aborting & Phases IIRC, once you perform an action - regardless of whether you Aborted to it or not - you get the benefits of that action until you perform another action, not until you get the chance to perform another action. So if you Abort to Dodge, you get the added DCV even after your aborted Phase passes, even after the Segment where you get your next available Phase starts, and even after the DEX where you'd take your action starts, if you decide to Hold your Action. Whenever you perform a different action, that's when your bonuses change (to those the new action gives you). I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that's how it goes (and it certainly feels right, and balanced).

Re: PRE Drains Suppress and its counterpart Succor don't cap. Drain and its counterpart Aid, do. The "capping" concept makes no sense for Dispel. Suppress and Succor stack (as in you can keep on stacking them without limit). (Ok, so it's a crappy mnemonic... but hey, it's all I could come up with on short notice!) Edit: Please ignore this, as it's wrong!

Re: PRE Drains Well, "easier to impress" can be "afraid", "naive", "meek", whatever gets specified when the power's built. Also, I forgot to explicitly mention... draining PRE also lowers their ability to impress others, which might not only be undesired, but unwarranted. Let's say I want to build a power that makes you naive and gullible. That shouldn't make you easier to hit with mental powers, or shouldn't make you worse at attacking mentally (so there shouldn't be an EGO/ECV hit), and it shouldn't hamper your ability to scare, intimidate, or convince others... PRE+EGO Drain would do both of these, which we don't want. PRE Drain would only do the latter, but wouldn't really make you more suceptible to PRE attacks if your EGO is higher than your PRE. Has anybody played around with a "PRE Defense" score, or something similar? Alternatively, has anybody played around with a sort of limited Drain (like Drain PRE, Only To Resist PRE Attacks)?

The general consensus regarding a power that makes people easier to impress is PRE Drain, right? But wouldn't that actually make it harder for them to impress others, while potentially not affecting their ability to resist being impressed? You use PRE to impress, but you can use either PRE or EGO to resist. So you'd really have to drain both EGO and PRE, which is not only more expensive, but also has undesired side effects. Thoughts?

Re: 3 spell potions arent working... Would you like some -- What?

Re: The Cost of STR & Other Characteristics: An open discussion Um... there's a difference between "more cost efficient" and "cheaper". I don't get to play "Kranthor, God of Gods, with the power to change reality just by willing it" in a 150pt Fantasy HERO game just because that's my concept. In your case, one character is more powerful than another, even if they do cost the same amount of points. The higher STR character is inherently more powerful. The only balancing factor is that all those powers granted by STR are Drained, Dispelled, and Suppressed together. Which really means you put all your Strength powers in a "Strength Powers" Elemental Control. But then they're also Aided and Succorred together, which is broken. By this I mean that the separate powers/stats that make up the SFX-ridden STR stat could go into an EC (or any other Framework) the same way other powers can. In fact, they should, if the SFX is "Strength". That balances it out nicely with the rest of the system.

Re: The Cost of STR & Other Characteristics: An open discussion Well, if I had my way, Kenn, not necessarily. I'd like to get rid of Figureds (not the actual stats, but the fact that they're based on Primaries), and decouple the different aspects of STR. Probably DEX, too, but I haven't given that much thought. STR, though, really breaks the concept behind HERO; the concept that Powers are game effects, and you define the special effects. Strength is a perfectly good special effect for: hitting harder, lifting more, jumping higher, etc. Having a body covered in flames in a perfectly good special effect for: having attacks do less damage (they're partially burned up), having people that touch you get damaged, raising the temperature in your vicinity, being especially resistant to cold and/or fire damage and/or environments, etc. But STR is a "Power" (stat, whatever) that really includes a bunch of effects that are really only tied by SFX. In fact, tied by just one of the many valid SFX's. if HERO has no "Body of Fire" (see above), "Cold Blast" (EB, AoE Cone + CE, lower temp + DEX Drain), "Web Shooting" (EB + Swinging + Entangle), or "Rocket Booster" (Flight, OIF + EB, No Range, OIF) Powers, why does it have a STR (hth damage + lifting capacity + leaping) power? One of the components of STR, hth damage, should probably be priced at 1/1 like it is now. Well, really, 5 per d6, coming out to the same. Leaping is already included, no need to do that one. Lifting capacity... I dunno, price it like we currently price STR now? Mebbe cheaper? So your characters wouldn't be that much more expensive. You'd just need to decide whether they can lift as much as they could, or whether they'd do less damage, or not jump as far, etc.

Re: question about a sword with "armor piercing" Nah, remember what the Power actually does. Unless it's defined as AoE or something, there's no reason why the wielder would get hit with it, so Personal Immunity would be unecessary.

Re: The Cost of STR & Other Characteristics: An open discussion How is it not the rule system? Unless you mean it's the character creation system, as opposed to the rules. Rules that favor or penalize some concepts, arbitrarily, are a problem. Players shouldn't need to play concepts other than what they want in order to be cost-efficient. Game viable? That's another story. The 2pts/1STR rule also works, as some people have shown. Mechanically, it works even better. Conceptually, too. Decoupling the different mechanics STR includes (damage, lifting, leaping, etc.) probably works, too. No recalibration for the entire system necessary, mostly because the adjustment is itself a calibration with regards to the entire system.