algesan

My apologies, yes, I can recreate the wheel.  It is definitely doable since I've at least modified the the wheel before when I last GM'd a game using the Hero system years ago.  That was when I mixed into a 5th Edition HD template and export template what I consider the best part of 6th to cancel out the biggest flaw in 5th (IMHO at least), which was pulling the direct link between combat and DEX.  My irritation is over why it would be necessary when it is, from my personal experience, trivial to have shifted the files to a new hosting as it appears so many of the 6th Ed versions of the export formats did.  Of course, I did make an error, I forgot about the Wayback Machine as another poster pointed out in another thread.

If, of course, all of the users who created the text based 5th Edition export formats that are no longer available chose to deny Hero Games the right to host their files, then I offer my most abject apologies for any impression you have of my tone that I reached from the absolutely and totally incorrect conclusion that such files were simply discarded by Hero Games when they changed the forum area.  Of course, the files are still available at this location online: https://web.archive.org/web/20060630084337/http://www.herogames.com:80/FreeStuff/HeroDesignerV2/export templates/RPM_RTFCharacterSheetsv2.zip
 

Excellent, thanks again, that did the trick.

Thanks much, hopefully this will solve my problem with HD caused by Hero Games being lazy (BTW, that is the nice reason why some files for HD are missing) and not copying any 5th Ed usable word processor editable export files over to this site.

On 10/12/2018 at 12:19 PM, bluesguy said:

Hi,

 

Did you look in the download section?   https://www.herogames.com/forums/files/category/2-export-formats/

Yes, repeatedly and repeatedly downloaded different files, I mentioned in the OP just how worthless they are for 5th Edition users.  Fortunately, someone mentioned the Wayback Machine in another forum below and I scooped up some pre-6th export formats that Hero Games decided not to copy over.  I just downloaded some old friends I recognized and later I will see if they got fubar'd by "updates" from HD.

There were a number of .txt and .rtf export formats for Hero Designer during 5th Edition (and early 6th), what happened to them? 

All there is left is a bunch of uneditable (and paper hungry) HTMLs and text formats for 6th Edition that reject any data from a HD character built under 5th Edition rules.  Nothing that can be opened in a word processor for editing.

The only sort of functional two page format left is the PDF export...which cuts a lot of the notes and other details out...as well as being uneditable without paying for an expensive PDF editor.

Just curious, since it looks like giving the finger to those who don't change up to the new vision of 6th Ed, despite HeroGames still selling a bunch of 5th Ed books.

Not that big a deal I guess since I'm only using HD for my convenience in building my player characters.

On 2/26/2018 at 8:58 PM, Spence said:

(snip)

 

But most Pulp, Spy, War, Swashbuckling (land), Pirates (sea) and Westerns all seem to have a fantasy/horror tie in these days.  Easy to strip out, but there. 

 

(snip)

The problem being they are already pretty well done.  As it is, my players are having fun for the last few sessions running a Weird War Two based on the Dust 1947 (aka Dust Tactics) world.  Four players filling out a squad of five (oops, the SGT is dead now and no replacements), starting out as ASOCOM Ranger privates.  So far, for intro, they have confirmed the existence of Axis Zombies, haven't found out about the Gorillas yet, haven't met one of the actual super soldiers (one each from Soviets and Allies), have dealt with Soviet Steel Guard (Terminator sized, disabled Red Guard heroes wired into mech chassis), Soviet mecha (as well as watching their Allied light mecha go absolutely apesh*t with his quad 50s trying to penetrate its armor right before it gave him the heavy flamer treatment), etc.  Aliens (the original concept, but not mentioned anymore) and maybe Cthulhu can be added in (Dust actually is producing some minis for the tabletop now).  Ignore the pricing on each link, I just pulled the first one I saw and they might be the super premium prepainted and/or limited edition ones, so the price may be seriously high.  The regular minis are at least as reasonable as GWs...to the point where I almost thought of building Guard out of them.

http://www.dust1947.com/news_d.php?id=413

http://www.dust1947.com/products_d.php?sid=80&id=959

http://www.dust1947.com/products_d.php?sid=28&id=1004

On 2/26/2018 at 3:49 PM, Surrealone said:

With your M16 at what age and with what kind of eyesight?  (Most people aren't demographically in the prime of their lives with perfect vision.)

As for shotguns, ~100m is a reasonable effective range for a slug gun with a rifled barrel, but absolutely ridiculous for my example of birdshot (I was assuming #6 or #8).  Likewise, .308 is certainly effective at 1000 yards, but most people fielding .308's seldom take shots beyond 300 yards -- for (as I said in the first line of the post) "accuracy reasons".  (i.e. The firearm and the round may be capable of 1000 yard lethality, but most people don't shoot that well ... and most non-military personnel flat-out don't have places readily available to safely practice shots that long.)

While your personal statistics may be better than the average shooter's, the numbers I provided are the 'normal' ranges at which people tend to engage.  Do some research and you can confirm the numbers as reasonable (for sweeping generalities) on your own with a little effort.

Currently in my 50s.  Yep, understand about eyesight, but it appears my aging issues are in the "going long" variety (IOW, I have more trouble with close vision, but not with distant vision). 

Correct on the birdshot, there are also other factors that reduce that range (for example, using 2-3/4" shells in a 3" magnum to get extra rounds in the magazine).

Most engagements are at ~300m or less from a study done a long time ago before Vietnam, which is one reason why the USA switched from the M-14 (with 7.82 equivalent) to the M-16 (with 5.56 equivalent).  The 1000m range for the .30 caliber rounds was set (IIRC) because that is about when the round goes subsonic and tumbling gets worse, and this does not speak to any ammo from the last two or three decades that might have improved on that.  I agree on most civilians not having 11000m to shoot, or the skills (I don't, but I'd try it if I had to), but simulated targeting works fairly well on shorter ranges, so you can learn 300m shooting at 10m, although not as easily.  OTOH, I'm more worried about the RPG aspects of this since by its nature, most PCs (and NPCs) are not decrepit, overweight, out of shape, aged individuals.  They tend to be paragons (or at least a bit above average) in physical and mental skills.  A non-military style PC generally has a lot more in common with Sgt York or Rambo than a civilian in most RPGs.  (Yes, there are exceptions here, I've even run several, but the ability to put steel on target when needed is never a bad thing.)

People not shooting that well is a function of the amount of training (which is why the Marines have a rep for being better shots than the Army, they spend more time on the range putting steel on target, at least they used to) they get as well as some natural advantages.  I lean more to the training, because most of my "natural" advantages relate more to early exposure to firearms, excellent early teachers, a steady hold (but is that nature or training?), much respect but no fear of firearms, etc.  That being said, I don't consider my skills all that extraordinary compared to members of not only my extended family, but my wife's extended family, as well as a number of unrelated friends.  If you want insane skillz, then I'd suggest an E-5 Sgt from Poland when I was on active duty.  I watched the guy use a M-60 to engage group targets at 1000m+ with a series of single shots during several qualifications.  Remember that the M-60 has no semi setting, it is full auto with only user trigger control to set the size of a burst.  I mention him because when I asked him how the heck he shot like that, he told me about years of Warsaw Pact training: Go to range and shoot, clean equipment, go to field and do live fire maneuvers, clean equipment, rinse, repeat. 

Seriously?  Wellllll, let's start with the fact that using iron sights on my old M16, I'd have no problem engaging targets at 300m with a good chance of scoring a hit, expect to hit at 200m with regularity (>75%), almost guarantee a hit at 100m (unless the target ducks on time), etc.  Similar results with similar rifles.  With my carbine, about 100m would be my limit, but that is mainly because it uses a pistol round, not a rifle round, so power issues would come into effect.  Pistols of a variety of calibers, no problem taking the shot at 30-40m, but combat ranges work more as 10m.  With high quality handguns and professional shooters, 200m isn't an unreasonable range, the weapons will work that far...with IRON SIGHTS.  Oh, the 10m range I noted personally above...at that range, I can put 45 rounds (three full clips) at speed (every time the gun comes back "into battery", I put a round downrange) entirely inside the torso of a human target.  I'd offer more on pistols, but IMO pistols are what you carry when you aren't expecting trouble.  As for shotguns, modern 12 gauge 3" magnum shells using #1 to #000 buckshot, I've seen deer hit and killed at ~100m ranges.

Note that most of my *personal* stats listed here are based on what I've fired, not what these weapons are rated for.  After all, effective range on the various .30 caliber versions all are listed at around 1000m (7.62 NATO pretty much). 

Other than the law enforcement stats on pistols, I'd pretty much say that you are off by an order of magnitude on all of your ranges.

On 3/2/2017 at 3:12 PM, Surrealone said:

50m away?  In today's world and dating back to WWI, for accuracy reasons most riflemen using iron sights wouldn't take that shot ... until Ser Knight was 30m or less away. Those with appropriate optics would tend to take shots out to 50m .. perhaps up to 100m.  A designated marksman or sniper with optics to visually compensate for the range ... and with training to address windage and bullet drop would tend to stay inside 300m unless position and equipment (i.e. optics, rifle, and ammo) and situation dictated longer distances to be reasonable.

 

Here's some food for thought to properly set some very rough, MODERN 'gunfighting' distances in your mind:

In the real world, the typical distance in which a handgun is used is 7 meters or less ... with most lethal uses of handguns occurring in under 5 feet.  Law enforcement will sometimes take shots at 15 meters if the background (regarding potential misses) permits it without compromising the safety of innocents.  Pistols are certainly lethal at longer ranges, but they aren't as controllable as firearms that have shoulder stocks, so accuracy suffers enough that most shooter training discourages shots beyond 15 meters.  (i.e. The pistol is typically considered the wrong tool for longer range jobs.)  I mention this to give you reasonable ranges to work with for pistols you might incorporate ... knowing that American Civil War era pistols were even less accurate than those of today.  Think pirate pistol use and you have the right concept of a reasonable range for antique pistols to be used at.

 

12ga shotguns using birdshot in the real world, today, tend to have a 40 inch pattern at 40 meters.  Lethality falls off rapidly thereafter because the pattern is too sparse and the energy too low beyond 40 yards to kill all but small varmints effectively.  (i.e. Birdshot at 50 meters will piss someone off, and may wound him/her ... but it is unlikely to kill him/her in a single shot.  A fully armored knight would likely snicker at a 50 yard birdshot hit ... but would be severely wounded from that same shot at 3-5 meters.)  Thus, shotguns using birdshot will usually be 30-40 meter max range, with 20 meters being preferred/ideal.  Keep in mind this is a sweeping generality based on a modified choke ... knowing that choke variations can and will yield different results.  I'm again throwing this out there to provide some idea of reasonable ranges in a modern shotgun that uses perfectly formed birdshot ... knowing this should likely be tuned for older shotguns and imperfectly formed shot ... with powder that burns nowhere nearly as reliably as today's nitrocellulose-based smokeless powders.

 

That brings us to the rifle, where snipers aside, in modern warfare the average range to the target remains largely unchanged from WWI -- where the average distance was 30-35m.  Shots other than cover fire over 100m are rare ... and the typical max range (again, snipers aside) is 300m.  Since WWI, most designated marksmen and snipers tend to take shots well under 300m ... even today.  There are, of course, outliers given the amazing optics and modern firearm/ammunition combinations specifically designed for long-range anti-personal or anti-material roles (i.e. I'm talking the .338 Lapua, .408 CheyTac, and .50 BMG rifle/ammo combos, here), but those are the exceptions not the rule.

 

 

 

So you asked if you were missing something besides it being better to shoot from behind fortification.  The answer is, 'yes!'  One missing thing is the typical ranges at which firearms tend to be used -- which I think I covered and hopefully helped you wrap your head around.  Your 50m example for a rifle shot was an unusually long shot for a rifle with iron sights ... even today ... let alone 200+ years ago with firearms that had less aerodynamic ammunition and less reliable powder (in terms of ignition and burn consistency)...

 

 

Another missing facet is the one Shadowsoul just touched upon:  the longer the shot, the less damage it does ... because of the loss of energy by the projectile(s) as energy is spent cutting through the wind.  The more aerodynamic and heavy a projectile, the more energy it will maintain and deliver to its target ... provided it is spun adequately by rifling (to promote stability) without being overspun.  The base Hero System RAW completely fail to capture this ballistic concept.

On 8/1/2017 at 1:05 AM, mrinku said:

<snip>

 

But yeah, swashing your buckle is one of those genres that pops up now and then, with long stretches of nothing. GDW's En Garde! Waaaaaay back in 1975 was one of the earliest RPGs of them all, but it's never been a common RPG genre for some reason.

Heh, because it is a bit hard for most players to get into.  As for En Garde! itself, it is a great game for developing a character (like Traveler), but not so hot in the playing of it (again, like Traveler, but Traveler had more support) as well as being saddled with a clunky combat system that actually appears to be more useful for an early PBM (or PBEM if you wished) style.  Pretty much, without any outside support, the GM had to gather his characters, plan out broad events, get each characters' plan for the next month, then decide if anything actually happened (other than the stated stuff) and roleplay that or adjust his event timeline.  Other than the combat system (which was given a fan mod in an old Dragon to be a d100 system, much more playable) and general lack of module support, it is actually one of the best PnP RPGs out there for simulating Three Musketeers era urban swashbuckling.

Edit: Not to be confused with Osprey's En Garde which is a similar period tabletop skirmish game based on the excellent Ronin system (it is arguably Ronin v2, but loses some of the "flavor" from Ronin of the special rules of the different warbands....but that "flavor" included some broken stuff that the author refused absolutely to address despite having simple fixes pointed out to him).  It isn't like most of Osprey's stuff based on some other combat system.

Well, that didn't work, but for another reason I had to do a reboot on the system and this morning I find I don't have a problem anymore.  Go figure.

Thanks for the assist.

I'm trying to create a character.  In the Disadvantages tab, I already have one for Psych Limit Overconfident, but on the 5th Disadvantage, no matter what I choose, it sticks a Psych Limit Overconfident in for 5 points (including the 5 points in all the counts).  It will not get rid of it until I delete enough Disadvantages to have less than five.  When I go back to Edit it, it edits as a "Hunted" (the one I wanted) and when I go back, the points for the Hunted are there correctly, but it still reads as Overconfident and the text goes from black to blue.  When printed to PDF, the points for the hunted are correct, but the text still reads for Overconfident with the anomaly of it having an 8- roll (same as the Hunted)

It may be a similar issue since I have a few skills in my first character that I changed from 3 point stat based to 1 point familiarity that also highlighted as blue text while displaying the stat based roll.  In those cases though, the PDF print correctly shows the 8- skill roll.

Potential additional clues, the exact same Psych Limit Overconfident was on the first character I created in the 5th position, except for showing the base 5 points.

Re: Source for Comstar Traveller Hero books?

Heh, another player with interest in the books pops up. Let me know if you have another set. If not, status on the 0.9 pdf?

TIA

Re: 5th Ed Paratwa

I'd handwave it that way as a GM, but that might be an idea, except how do I build the automatons? As followers? With some kind of mindlink? As totally loyal permanent Summons from a power that only works one time ever?

Might be a bit too cheap that way for a PC although it would help the need to have multiple stats.

I'm actually thinking this might simply not be doable by the written rules without spending waaaaay too many points.

Okay, some know who these are, some don't. For those that do, I'm not worried about the gear from the setting, just the character. I'm not going to deal with the Ash Ock ability to be either a combined consciousness or separate tways. These are the original "straight" Paratwa.

For those who don't it is a character with one mind and two physical bodies.

Problems: Despite having three potential "forms", the mind cannot be attacked as a separate entity other than by powers that would normally affect the mind of a normal human and in that case the bodies are not affected technically.

Depending on the build, does the DEX and SPD have to be bought for both the mental and physical parts?

In theory, both the physical bodies and the mind can be stunned (by regular damage in the first case and mental powers in the second) individually, so do all parts need to buy CON and STUN?

Using the "base" Paratwa form you have two physical bodies that cannot recombine, but if one of the bodies is killed, then the other one goes homicidal (although that is from the book, so it could be dropped).

Possible method: Duplication (base is a pure mental spirit/AI build, plus two physical human bodies), except, these are not multiple free willed entities, they are only one character, however both bodies can act in each phase in perfect harmony.

Everything I look at seems to be awkward and clunky, requiring hand waving, anyone have any idea about how to do this elegantly?

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

Oh no, not again!

 

Basically, if you give Bruce NCM, you need to give it to most of the rest of the Justice League as well, and adjust the overall power level of the setting accordingly.

 

Bruce is smarter, faster, stronger, scarier and more resistant to damage than most other superheroes, and there is no sane reason for charging him extra points for this.

Today it would be easier to consider the costume as a nanofabric that gives him plus stats through a IIF. It is how I used to build the "normals" as supers. Take my 20 points and crank it around into +stats.

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

Aids are cumulative up to the maximum capacity of the Aid and, if I'm reading the rules quote Phookz provided correctly, the maximum capacity of all Aids in 5th/6th is only the maximum capacity of the maximum Aid not the sum of the maximum capacities of the Aids applied even if there are varying sources of the Power.

 

That's a patch that makes some small sense in superheroic but breaks down completely in heroic, and really should have been made genre specific or even an Adjustment Power modifier. I'm a little irritated that I can't have a DEMON ritual where the flunkies each perform a 1d6 All Magical Powers Aid on the Morbane, because apprently no matter how many flunkies the most the Morbane is getting is 6pts. Apparently I have to partially limit the Morbanes powers Only in the Presence of 6 Flunkies, Only in the Presence of 66 Flunkies, Only in the Presence of 666 Flunkies, etc. What a PITA.

 

And I still maintain that this evil patch was made necessary by making Adjustment effects persist even if the MP/VPP pool is shifted away from the Adjustment power. Adjustment Powers bought outside of a MP/VPP are cost prohibitive enough to preempt the kind of guff we've talked about before. And, hey, it's still rules legal in 5th/6th for me to have a +STR slot in my MP and a STR Aid slot also so I can still bust it open just not as egregiously.

Well, use the Cumulative advantage if you don't like the Ritual disadvantage. Or reverse it onto Morbane who gets the AID d6/flunky with a maximum of .... 10 flunkies' worth? 60 points be enough for all powers? Using standard effect that would require 20 flunkies, but that is the bit you can fiddle with.

I was aware of it. PITA. Additions that were made due to changes that caused more problems than they "solved." I thought that was for other game systems.

Actually, I always looked on it more as trying to help players have more elegant ways to simulate abilities and powers. Of course with more elegance and flexibility comes more abuse potential.

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

The problem lies with trying to abuse the rules. This particular example is mitigated extremely by the fact that Aids don't stack' date=' but abusing the rules isn't limited to Aid or Multipower - there are many ways to abuse the rules. You can get just as much cheese without the Multipower, it just costs a little more.[/quote']

 

BINGO! Give the man a cigar. Hero has always been a system prone to abuse, by its nature it must be one. Whether or not a player tries to abuse it is up to the player.

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

Like Grailknight said two applications of each slot, with an average roll, will apply the maximum Aid. You might get two below average rolls, then you have to apply the slot thrice. If you fail to max out the Aid slot after three rolls, retire the dice.

 

Of course you can stack adjustment powers, just not if they are the same power. Two Bull Strength potions don't make you twice as strong as a bull, but a Bull Strength potion plus a Belt of Giant Strength? Sure, unless all Aid has been made like Healing where only Aids that exceed the greatest amount already applied have any effect. That would be news to me.

 

The problem doesn't lie with Aid, or any adjustment power. The problem is with Multipower/VPP and powers persisting even when the pool is shifted away from that power.

Depends on how they are built. I build wearable items (usually) as +X to stat Y and expendable items (usually) as AID. So in that case, they would stack because the Belt would be giving you +X STR and the Potion would give you Yd6 of STR Aid.

Re: No more Figured Characteristics?!

I'm pretty done with power-gaming too. Min-maxing I still flirt with here and there' date=' because sometimes it's nice to be able to just whip out the specialty and kick some ass (literally or figuratively; I don't care if it's beating someone to a pulp or brewing the best darn alcoholic beverage on this side of the Great Ocean) in the right circumstances. Using little tweaks and "loopholes" to do it? Maybe, but I try to be honest about it at least. [/quote']

 

Well, I don't think you can ever get rid of it. Like it or not, powergaming is about digging down and finding out what makes the system tick.

 

So you can be the baddest (or one of the baddest) mofos on the block of course, but you still need to know how.

 

Welll..hopefully....none of this has to do with my own anti power gaming post. I only meant to suggest that removing Figureds gives the opportunity to power game less. I never suggested that using Figureds means you're automatically power gamer or anything like that. Just saying I myself...don't miss Figureds at all.

 

Heh, no, it just removes some of the more obvious ways.

Re: Urban Hero: a new take on Bardic Music

Dimension shift for a modern day US citizen, a musician and bit of a loser here. Magic system basis is Intent and Will controlled by chants. Intend what you want, Will it to happen and focus it through the chant, in this case, songs.

Mentl is very high powered and totally untrained.

Magical Music

Page 1

Page 2

Page 3

Page 4

Magical Music part two, but I'll just give you the starting link on this one. You have to get about 4 pages into it before Mentl cuts loose.

Page 1

That was the flashy stuff, read the entire comic if you want to see some of the less flashy effects. Like in the latest page, the old high priest making the comment that from residual effects of a song even he was attracted sexually to Mentl and he (the priest) didn't swing that way...

Re: No more Figured Characteristics?!

I REALLY hate it when you say stuff like that. It sounds really condescending. My point was there are legitimate reasons to prefer the other way that doesn't mean you're a jerk and/or powergamer.

The problem is that it only takes one powergamer in a group to stick it to a particular gaming campaign. Big advantage to an old school D&D style system, not many chances to powergame if the GM is halfway competent.

Right now I have four players, although about half the time one of us isn't there on any given day.

Player 1: Doesn't care too much about learning the system, just wants to understand his character and how it works so that he can play it. Character development for him is "I want to do X, Y and/or Z better and be able to perform decently in combat".

Player 2: Loves the system, but as long as he can do the buffing/scholar shtick with decent combat capability once in a while, he is happy. Accepts balance limits without trying to push them.

Player 3: Knows the system fairly well, but isn't too worried about powergaming. He enjoys playing, but he doesn't mind "pushing" limits if possible.

Player 4: Doesn't try as hard as he used to in the min/max front, but still does so out of habit. He will try to scrape out the best bang for the point. If something can make his character more powerful, he is right on top of it. Partly it is funny because he hasn't caught on to some of the potential abuses built into 5ER and my house rules.

For myself, I know both sides. There is a line between character concept and character usefulness (a big brain 98 pound weakling in a three person group that regularly has to fight 10-15 NPCs needs to improve enough to at least survive combat oriented minions). I do like to min/max my combat power, but mainly so I can pull up extra background skills for fun.

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

In response to Stevezilla:

 

Because the combination of Aid and VPP was one of the more abusive things that you could do in the game. Build an aid any Char (1 at a time, 5pts per hr fade) . A character with this could increase all of their stats by 24 active pts in a 60 pt active campaign in less than 2 minutes and keep them that way PERMANENTLY by investing 2 min or so each morning during breakfast. You could then switch your VPP and use as normal. When we switch to 6th that house rule will be one of the first explained to my players.

This looks like a case of player rules lawyering. Now, rules lawyering discussions are part of the fun (YMMMV) of a gaming session or discussion and sometimes we all learn something new, but...

I'm the GM, there is no higher court to appeal to and so when I rule that something is abusive, then it must go. I even have places in the rule books that say that and, amusingly enough, I don't think I've ever found a formal RPG that didn't have GM is boss and the rules are a guideline.

Rules abuses are by intent. Some players come up with wickedly clever ones (and usually get to do them once), but otherwise don't bother with it. Some players try over and over again to "push" their abilities, no matter the situation.

So as for the situation you mentioned: "No, you cannot do that." "But it says I can in the rules!" "GM Rulezorz is in the rules too as a trump card."

Re: No more Figured Characteristics?!

Was designing a character on the fly the other night for a new player and he looked quite sweet for a 20 minute character until it was pointed out to me I hadn't purchased any OCV or DCV. Aargh.... back to the drawing board.

Heh, it took me a bit of time here and a bit of time there playing with HD and then printing out a few 6e sheets. The rule of thumb I found in threads that +25 character points is fairly close, I used 30 bonus stat points to convert 4 characters over and with the savings from stat costs, it worked out fairly close. IIRC I ended up buying no OECV, just the DECV.

Hmmm...These toons had bought up EGO for the ECV levels, but only one had any use for OECV.... Heh, the other three could now sell back their 3 base OECV levels.

One thing I did to get a handle on the no figured thing was start from scratch. I build 0 pt, 10 pt, 30 pt, 50 pt, 75 pt, 100 pt quick toons to see what happened.

Re: No more Figured Characteristics?!

I think it will be a couple of years till we all change the way we build characters. It's a cultural thing at the moment. Everyone is still clinging to their old notions of how to build characters' date=' and some are experimenting, but nothing really solid has come of it. We also have a ton of conversions of 5e material and that will enforce the 5e status quo. Once we start to get more and more stuff written from a purely 6e point of view we should see some experimentation of different Characteristic values start to take place. So be patient it will happen, but evolution doesn't take place overnight.[/quote']

 

Oh yeah, definitely cultural. I had one player going ballistic and another merely ranting at the mere idea of replacing figured stats. Took a bit of wait, jab, wait, jab during the playing session to get them to "Well, it wouldn't really change the game, it just changes the way you build a character's stats." That brings on another round, but using +30 points for stats difference seems to work out.

 

Oh, being equal opportunity for time involved to adjust, God took six days Himself...

Re: Real Costs for spells and how you handle them?

More t the point - and far simpler - is that the mage can very easily render crossbow guy irrelevant. Who cares if your foe has a 2d6 RKA' date=' if you are invisible? Or Desolid? Or can generate a 10 PD barrier? While you can have a 2d6RKA, no ramge modifier, so you can kill him long before he gets in range. Or a 1/2d6 RKA AVAD, Indirect, so you can kill him at your leisure from behind your magical shield. Or a simple TK spell so you can lift him 50 metres in the air and then drop him Or more mundanely, just use magic to make him ineffective and use your [b']own[/b] crossbow.

 

Even if they are on the same team, if magic guy can do something as effective as yer standard fantasy fireball, crossbow guy is going to spending his time buffing his nails and pouting, unless magic guy is constrained in some way*: having extra points to spend on CSLs doesn't cut it when the other guy has explosion or area affect on his 2d6 RKA.

 

cheers, Mark

 

*In D&D, for example, they make him physically weaker, remove his ability to use armour and weapons and ensure he only has a limited number of charges per day .... and he's still generally more effective.

Agreed.

Reference: 5ER

Using the /3 rule, forcing a RSR with 14- NCM on skill rolls, requiring all spells to cost Mana with 1 LTMana spent per cast and a minimum of -2 Limits using Foci, Extra Time, Gest/Incant to fill it out. Also AP is limited to 20 + (base/30)*5.

It seems to be working well enough, but then the major reason is that the primary caster in the group is a bard type who is a reasonable player. So he doesn't have a problem self limiting his spells to keep them inside the campaign power level and simply finds A) nifty new effects to simulate and fleshes out the "Legend Lore" sage side of his character with an occasional toss at combat (mainly with throwing knives).

There was a big problem with another player who wanted to run a mage, but hated spending for the DEX to hit anything or eat the +1/2 penalty cost to make everything some kind of AE. (Fighters can hit for 3d6K and the mage is stuck with 6 DC using AE Acc.) I'm not really going to go there because the biggest issue was the player wanting to build his own mage and choosing to build a MP mage after I told him that no MP were allowed.....

The trick I think that most people are missing here is that all these limits are fun and nice, but all you do is replicate the classic warrior/wizard problem with a vengeance. The warrior starts off nastier than the wizard (although consider that a "1st level" character is maybe a 25+25) but the high level wizard toasts the high level warrior unless the warrior has some extremely specialized gear....or can get in close fast...

They just get more flexible and more powerful as they get more points to spend (Deadly Blow helps the noncaster types). I'm at that point now in my campaign. I've got a primary buffer who is starting to eye some direct damage or DOT spells, a tank who has gone from a wannabe knight, to a knight and now a paladin with a few nifty spells and a pure damage dealing tank who (since he bought his CSLs and stats up so he takes and deals more damage) is about to start vegetating on a plateau (oh he can buy up a bit more DEX and STR still) unless he starts getting Hammer Trick (bought at the /3 price) "combat maneuver" spells. Maybe some Reduced END and such, but still that /3 will start catching up with him.

When I "Superhero" the toons (make them pay for everything), the difference in total cost between the two tanks is about the price of the paladin's recent spells...

The bard? Despite points in extra KS stuff and skills, we are still looking at the bard having 10% more points (which works out to a bit over 15% when you don't have to pay for the equipment). It will only get worse since the bard has been surrendering nifty "combat" items to the tanks and just recently started "filling" some of the empty slots the fighters have had covered.