Continuing charges

[MaximaPain]

How do continuing charges apply to linked powers?

 

For example: A character has a sword that can be temporarily ignited using a special fuel system, represented by another HKA linked to the sword. Can the duration of its ignition be represented with a continuing charge? I.e. If the charges last for 20 minutes each, does that imply a single attack with the linked bonus, which sets a single enemy on fire for 20 minutes, or a the extra HKA itself, which lasts for 20 minutes? Or both?

[jwpacker]

Re: Continuing charges

 

How do continuing charges apply to linked powers?

 

For example: A character has a sword that can be temporarily ignited using a special fuel system, represented by another HKA linked to the sword. Can the duration of its ignition be represented with a continuing charge? I.e. If the charges last for 20 minutes each, does that imply a single attack with the linked bonus, which sets a single enemy on fire for 20 minutes, or a the extra HKA itself, which lasts for 20 minutes? Or both?

 

As both are instant powers, I'm not sure I'd go with continuing charges, unless I wanted to target to be burning for 20 minutes.

 

I would either go with regular charges, or perhaps fuel charges.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Continuing charges

 

Do you want a normal sword that is a flaming sword for 20 minutes (x) times a day, or do you want a flaming sword that can set a target on fire for 20 minutes (x) times a day?

 

Or, I suppose, do you want a normal sword that is a flaming sword for 20 minutes (x) times a day and, when flaming, can set things on fire for 20 minutes?

[Split Decision]

Re: Continuing charges

 

Work from the effect back to the cause. Do you want the firey sword to ignite its target and make the target burn for some period of time? Or does the fire simply add damage to the sword's HKA?

 

Decide what it does, and we can build it. We have the character points (with apologies to Dust Raven).

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Continuing charges

 

Is this what Lingering is for?

[MaximaPain]

Re: Continuing charges

 

Do you want a normal sword that is a flaming sword for 20 minutes (x) times a day, or do you want a flaming sword that can set a target on fire for 20 minutes (x) times a day?

 

Or, I suppose, do you want a normal sword that is a flaming sword for 20 minutes (x) times a day and, when flaming, can set things on fire for 20 minutes?

 

I want a normal sword that is a flaming sword for (x) minutes, (y) times a day.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Continuing charges

 

I want a normal sword that is a flaming sword for (x) minutes' date=' (y) times a day.[/quote']

 

Here is one way to build it:

 

BIC Claymore (List), all slots OAF (Sword; -1)

22 1) Blade: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6 (2 1/2d6 w/STR), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (45 Active Points) - END=0

23 2) Flame On: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, Penetrating (+1/2), Sticky (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Damage Shield (Offensive; +3/4), Continuous (+1) (64 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 20 Minutes (Lighter Fluid; -1/2), Linked (Blade; -1/4) - END=[1 cc]

[Sean Waters]

Re: Continuing charges

 

That is a good build, and probably the best solution but there is a technical difficulty. The description of damage shield specifically says that you should use a linked power to do continuing damage to a target and the reason, I think, is that 'sticky' passes on the whole power - which would include the damage shield advantage - so the target would burn - but not be hurt by it.

 

Mind you it is difficult to see how else to do it: continuing charges only apply to constant powers and there is no point in making extra damage constant unless you are going to use it to cause damage without additional attack rolls.

 

You'd wind up with +2d6 RKA 0 END No Range, Only useable 4 times a day for a maximum of 20 minutes at a time (-0 or -1/4, depending on how many fights a day you are likely to get into), OAF

 

Also if you buy the KA as a HKA you can take a limitation that strength does not add damage. Slightly munchkinny but not illegal as far as I know.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Continuing charges

 

Is this what Lingering is for?

 

It is, but...lingering is pretty pointless unless you have a lot of limitations on power activation. 20 minutes of 'lingering' is +1 1/4, and simply not worth it if you are not avoiding gestures/extra time/incantations/activation rolls and such - without limitations on activation, you are not hindered in activating the power so no point in spending on lingering.

[JmOz]

Re: Continuing charges

 

It is' date=' but...lingering is pretty pointless unless you have a lot of limitations on power activation. 20 minutes of 'lingering' is +1 1/4, and simply not worth it if you are not avoiding gestures/extra time/incantations/activation rolls and such - without limitations on activation, you are not hindered in activating the power so no point in spending on lingering.[/quote']

 

Work from the effect: I want my sword to do more damage, but it takes up fuel while it is doing it, and it only has 20 min worth of fuel

 

Well more damage is +xd6 HKA

 

uses fuel

mmmmm

Sounds like a fuel charge to me, yah the power is not continous, but the f/x is, even though the mechanic is not, so I would allow it

 

Of cource if I wanted to go full hero you put the extra HA on as linked to the CE (representing the increase in temp level and smoke) and the also linked images (only to create light)

 

Like I said I would allow the continuing fuel charge as long as it did not get abused to much and not sweat the continous... Screw RAW

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Continuing charges

 

It is' date=' but...lingering is pretty pointless unless you have a lot of limitations on power activation. 20 minutes of 'lingering' is +1 1/4, and simply not worth it if you are not avoiding gestures/extra time/incantations/activation rolls and such - without limitations on activation, you are not hindered in activating the power so no point in spending on lingering.[/quote']

 

Lingering would more properly reduce the limitations on activating the power - that's the only manner in which it is an advantage.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Continuing charges

 

Work from the effect: I want my sword to do more damage, but it takes up fuel while it is doing it, and it only has 20 min worth of fuel

 

Well more damage is +xd6 HKA

 

uses fuel

mmmmm

Sounds like a fuel charge to me, yah the power is not continous, but the f/x is, even though the mechanic is not, so I would allow it

 

Of cource if I wanted to go full hero you put the extra HA on as linked to the CE (representing the increase in temp level and smoke) and the also linked images (only to create light)

 

Like I said I would allow the continuing fuel charge as long as it did not get abused to much and not sweat the continous... Screw RAW

 

You can not apply a fuel charge to a non-constant power (and why would you want to, generally?) and you shouldn't use fuel charges for attack powers BUT leaving that side, a 20 minute fuel charge is a -1/4 limitation which is remarkably close to the -1/4 to -0 I suggested as an ad hoc limited power limitation. Even if we do not necessarily agree as to how to get there, we seem to agree as to where we should be

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Continuing charges

 

updated per suggestions:

 

BIC Claymore v2.0 (List), all slots OAF (Sword; -1)

22 1) Blade: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6 (2 1/2d6 w/STR), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (45 Active Points) - END=0

23 2) Flame On: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6, 4 clips of 1 Continuing Fuel Charge lasting 20 Minutes (+0), Penetrating (+1/2), Sticky (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Damage Shield (Offensive; +3/4), Continuous (+1) (64 Active Points); No STR Bonus (-1/2), Linked (Blade; -1/4) - END=[1 cc]

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Continuing charges

 

It is' date=' but...lingering is pretty pointless unless you have a lot of limitations on power activation. 20 minutes of 'lingering' is +1 1/4, and simply not worth it if you are not avoiding gestures/extra time/incantations/activation rolls and such - without limitations on activation, you are not hindered in activating the power so no point in spending on lingering.[/quote']

 

Lingering would more properly reduce the limitations on activating the power - that's the only manner in which it is an advantage.

Couldn't the Charges in this case be one of the Limitations that Lingering mitigates?

 

3 Charges (-1.25), that Linger for 20 Minutes (+1.25) - you break even, and get 0 END thrown in.

[MaximaPain]

Re: Continuing charges

 

Here's an idea. What about an endurance reserve with no recovery and continuing charges? That way, the character could "activate" one of the fuel tanks, and the endurance would stick around for longer than 1 phase, as is normal for END reserves with charges. Using up the endurance before the time is up could represent the fuel being overtaxed, and reaching the time limit before using up all the endurance would represent the fuel burning itself out.

[JmOz]

Re: Continuing charges

 

You can not apply a fuel charge to a non-constant power (and why would you want to' date=' generally?) and you shouldn't use fuel charges for attack powers BUT leaving that side, a 20 minute fuel charge is a -1/4 limitation which is remarkably close to the -1/4 to -0 I suggested as an ad hoc limited power limitation. Even if we do not necessarily agree as to how to get there, we seem to agree as to where we should be [/quote']

 

Thus the comment "Screw RAW"

 

I do think we are in near agreement on this (Like so much other stuff), but a peek into my mind

 

I don't see a problem with a continuing charge on a instant power:

 

It would just mean that for that length of time you could use the power. Think of a pill that gives the character the power to throw lightning bolts, fly, and have a force field for 1 Hour (A Energy progector similar in concept to DC Comics Hour Man)

 

His powers should be able to take a continuing charge for 1 hour as a lim/advantage (I don't have the chart memorised sorry). The charge then represents how long he has the powers for. It does not mean that the lightning bolts are non stop for that hour, rather that he has the ability for that length of time. It goes back to the idea of having the concept first and then finding the best fit game elements for it. The problem I see way to often (and I am not saying you are doing it but rather that I see it all over these boards) is that people try to say this is exactly what the game element is, instead of doing a best fit situation. But this is of course all just an opinon of a guy in the frigid north with to much time on his hands...

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Continuing charges

 

I think you are assigning a rules interpretation to the word continuous (it's not the same as constant) that is completely besides the primary effect of the Continuous Advantage (it removes the need for further Attack Rolls).

[Sean Waters]

Re: Continuing charges

 

My understanding was that the 'continuous' advantage made an instant power constant, with all that entails, so a continuous instant power works the same way as if the power was constant. I think it even uses words to that effect in the book.

 

The removal of attack rolls would be part of that: if we had any constant attack powers then they would work the same way. (OK we do - suppress - but although it IS constant it is only constant in terms of the effect, which, unlike pretty much every other attack power is instant, and is an ungodly aberration in any event. IMO.)

[Sean Waters]

Re: Continuing charges

 

Thus the comment "Screw RAW"

 

I do think we are in near agreement on this (Like so much other stuff), but a peek into my mind

 

I don't see a problem with a continuing charge on a instant power:

 

It would just mean that for that length of time you could use the power. Think of a pill that gives the character the power to throw lightning bolts, fly, and have a force field for 1 Hour (A Energy progector similar in concept to DC Comics Hour Man)

 

His powers should be able to take a continuing charge for 1 hour as a lim/advantage (I don't have the chart memorised sorry). The charge then represents how long he has the powers for. It does not mean that the lightning bolts are non stop for that hour, rather that he has the ability for that length of time. It goes back to the idea of having the concept first and then finding the best fit game elements for it. The problem I see way to often (and I am not saying you are doing it but rather that I see it all over these boards) is that people try to say this is exactly what the game element is, instead of doing a best fit situation. But this is of course all just an opinon of a guy in the frigid north with to much time on his hands...

 

 

Screwed RAW

 

I agree - you wind up with the same sort of limitation value if you use continuing charges or some other route, so the underlying principle has to be sound.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Continuing charges

 

Couldn't the Charges in this case be one of the Limitations that Lingering mitigates?

 

3 Charges (-1.25), that Linger for 20 Minutes (+1.25) - you break even, and get 0 END thrown in.

 

3 charges (-1.25) made continuing for 20 minutes (5 levels down the time chart) also breaks even, with 0 END thrown in for free. We don't need Lingering.

 

This approach also works with other advantages and limitations. Let's use a 40 base point power, 4 charges (-1) and 5 minutes Lingering (I assume that's +1) for ease of math.

 

Slap on +1 in Advantages - it's AoE. Now, 40 x 3 = 120/2=60. If we use continuing charges, it costs 80.

 

Maybe we have -1 Limitations - it's OAF. 40 x2 = 80/3 = 27, but using continuing charges instead of Lingering we get 20 instead.

 

Those are pretty wide point disparities on a base 40 points.

 

What if the power is to cost END? Then we can get 4 charges (-1) that cost END (-1/2). If they Linger for 5 minutes, that's 40 x 2 = 80/2.5 = 32. Or it's 4 charges, continuous 5 minutes (-0), costs END (-1/2) = 27. Again, a pretty wide disparity to buy exactly the same thing.

 

And it doesn't have to be an attack power - we could be using a Force Field to get the same disparity.

 

My belief remains that Lingering impacts the

[SteveZilla]

Re: Continuing charges

 

How do continuing charges apply to linked powers?

 

For example: A character has a sword that can be temporarily ignited using a special fuel system, represented by another HKA linked to the sword. Can the duration of its ignition be represented with a continuing charge? I.e. If the charges last for 20 minutes each, does that imply a single attack with the linked bonus, which sets a single enemy on fire for 20 minutes, or a the extra HKA itself, which lasts for 20 minutes? Or both?

 

Why can it be activated only a set number of times per day, and why does each activation last for only 20 minutes? Why would extinguishing the fire waste the remaining time of that charge?