how I do "Feint" maneuver

[fwcain]

Here is how I usually permit a character to have a "feint" maneuver...

 

"Feint": Up to +4 OCV with Melee/HTH Combat, RSR: Acting or Sleight of Hand (skill has -1 penalty per attempted +1 OCV; resisted by PER roll or Analyze Style; -1), Limit: Subsequent attempts have cumulative -1 penalty to Skill Roll (-1/4), Side Effects: up to -4 DCV penalty (equal to attempted OCV bonus; -1/4). (Active Cost: 20; Final Cost: 8.)

 

The base/active cost is 20 points because it is four 5-point levels. Almost without exception, these levels apply to Melee or Hand-to-Hand Combat.

 

The RSR limit I calculated as follows:

• (base) . . . -1/2
  
• penalty is -1 per 5 active points . . . 1/2 more
  
• RSR uses variable skills . . . 1/4 less
  
• RSR skill is opposed . . . . 1/4 more
  

Thus, the total limit for RSR is -1.

 

Since Side Effects is less than 15 active points (when trying for just +1 or +2 OCV), it is a "minor/trivial effect." Therefore, the limit for this Side Effect is -1/4.

 

The increasing penalty is because, once you've done this trick, your opponent will begin to expect it again. This penalty should re-set for a new fight with new opponents. The DCV penalty Side Effect is usually explained as "he saw through your feint" or "you accidentally over-extended yourself, leaving an opening he could exploit."

 

Feedback shamelessly solicited!

Thanks,

Franklin

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: how I do "Feint" maneuver

 

Interesting build. I like it ... actually, I think I like that better than the build used in TUMA.

[Frenchman]

Re: how I do "Feint" maneuver

 

I'd prefer that it was a standard maneuver, like block or hurry - one doesn't need any special training to fake a punch and kick someone. The two methods we've tried that I liked are:

A: Opposed Skill Rolls:The attacker makes a DEX roll, complemented by Sleight of Hand, if they have it, vs. their opponents PER roll, complemented by Analyze Combat. I don't remember how we ended up on those skills, but there was some discussion. Anyhow, if the attacker wins the roll, he gains +1 OCV. If he wins by 3 or more, he gains +2. A critical success is worth +3 OCV. If the defender wins the roll, the attack is automatically blocked.

B: PRE Attack: The attacker makes a PRE attack vs. his opponent. If he equals or exceeds the target's PRE/EGO, he gains a +1 OCV to his attack. For every additional +5 over that, he gains an additional +1 OCV. I suppose some GMs might wish that to be +10 for each extra +1, but this has worked for us.

[CourtFool]

Re: how I do "Feint" maneuver

 

The increasing penalty is because' date=' once you've done this trick, your opponent will begin to expect it again. This penalty should re-set for a new fight with new opponents.[/quote']

 

How about a Recoverable Charge? I think you could also make an argument for Extra Time.

[gojira]

Re: how I do "Feint" maneuver

 

I've never tried this, but I'm inclined to make a feint a surprise maneuver. Once per foe, the player can declare a feint and get +1 to +3 OCV. After that, the feint no longer works because it's not a surprise. The player can come up with other descriptions of a new feint, and get a new bonus to OCV.

 

Based on my personal experience, feint is a product of fighting skill, not acting or sleight of hand. A feint is a change of line during an attack, or a beat, or disengage during a riposte. These things happen much too fast to try to detail them out.

 

Now, I would allow a player to pretend to be dead, for example, and roll against their acting. That would probably catch an opponent at 0 DCV if it succeeded. Or they could palm a small knife with sleight of hand, and attack a foe when pretending to punch. That might be worth 1/2 DCV. But these really aren't what I would call a feint either.

 

All in my own personal opinion of course.

[Shike019]

Re: how I do "Feint" maneuver

 

If I were to build a feint maneuver I would probably build it like this

 

Feint: Negative Combat Skill Levels (-1 to opponent's DCV), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (7 Active Points); Requires A Combat Tactics Roll (RSR Skill is subject to Skill vs. Skill contests (Perception); -3/4) Real Cost: 4

 

 

This costs 4 points for every -1 to your opponents DCV. Or you could just buy

 

I'm just too Good...: Negative Combat Skill Levels (-1 to opponent's DCV), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (10 Active Points) Real Cost: 10

 

This way all of y our opponents are always at a negative DCV

[Lord Liaden]

Re: how I do "Feint" maneuver

 

Interesting build. I like it ... actually' date=' I think I like that better than the build used in TUMA.[/quote']

 

Yes, I've always been uncomfortable with some of Steve Long's Power-based builds for things that IMO should be Skill-based.

 

In my case I allow a feint to be based on either a Sleight of Hand roll, or a DEX roll. If successful the character gets an OCV bonus as per a Surprise Move, with the degree of the bonus depending on how well the roll was made, and/or how cleverly/originally the player describes it. That last part can affect a character using a Feint again against the same foe in the same combat; if the player can't significantly and appropriately change the description of it from the previous use, the bonus is reduced or negated because his opponent will be expecting it.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: how I do "Feint" maneuver

 

Yes, I've always been uncomfortable with some of Steve Long's Power-based builds for things that IMO should be Skill-based.

 

In my case I allow a feint to be based on either a Sleight of Hand roll, or a DEX roll. If successful the character gets an OCV bonus as per a Surprise Move, with the degree of the bonus depending on how well the roll was made, and/or how cleverly/originally the player describes it. That last part can affect a character using a Feint again against the same foe in the same combat; if the player can't significantly and appropriately change the description of it from the previous use, the bonus is reduced or negated because his opponent will be expecting it.

 

That doesn't bother me, per se ... I just thought Images was a weird way to build it; it seemed to give more than Images, traditionally, does, though Skill Levels (whether positive for the attacker or negative for the defender) and using that as a power-based construct works fine for me.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: how I do "Feint" maneuver

 

I am in agreement with Frenchman that there should be a 'standard' Feint defined. Once that is done we can define what an expert or 'martial' version of the maneuver would be.

[Rkane_1]

Re: how I do "Feint" maneuver

 

How about a Recoverable Charge? I think you could also make an argument for Extra Time.

I would disagree with this as you can throw a Feint multiple times BUT for an opponent that is suspecting it might get a slight bonus. But then...if he is suspecting a Fient....and you attack him, doesn't that count too? *smile*

 

I've never tried this, but I'm inclined to make a feint a surprise maneuver. Once per foe, the player can declare a feint and get +1 to +3 OCV. After that, the feint no longer works because it's not a surprise. The player can come up with other descriptions of a new feint, and get a new bonus to OCV.

 

Based on my personal experience, feint is a product of fighting skill, not acting or sleight of hand. A feint is a change of line during an attack, or a beat, or disengage during a riposte. These things happen much too fast to try to detail them out.

 

Now, I would allow a player to pretend to be dead, for example, and roll against their acting. That would probably catch an opponent at 0 DCV if it succeeded. Or they could palm a small knife with sleight of hand, and attack a foe when pretending to punch. That might be worth 1/2 DCV. But these really aren't what I would call a feint either.

 

All in my own personal opinion of course.

 

I am heartily inclined to agree with gojira though I like his examples of using Acting and Slieght of Hand as well. Also, the character could do a convincing Revelatory Presence Attack on a gullible character.

"Luke, I am your father!"

"You are?"

*WHAM*

"No....not really. *evil chuckle*"

 

Yes' date=' I've always been uncomfortable with some of Steve Long's Power-based builds for things that IMO should be Skill-based.[/quote']

 

Yeah, for super-spy games where powers don't come into play, I will allow characters to perfrom Super-Skills providing they have the base skill and make a check at - 1 per 10 per Active Points.

 

In my case I allow a feint to be based on either a Sleight of Hand roll' date=' or a DEX roll. If successful the character gets an OCV bonus as per a Surprise Move, with the degree of the bonus depending on how well the roll was made, and/or how cleverly/originally the player describes it. That last part can affect a character using a Feint again against the same foe in the same combat; if the player can't significantly and appropriately change the description of it from the previous use, the bonus is reduced or negated because his opponent will be expecting it.[/quote']

 

But again, one of the problems with Fient is doing something so often your opponent now BELIEVES it to be a Fient and it turns out its the real attack but this is also a good reasoning of a Fient.

[prestidigitator]

Re: how I do "Feint" maneuver

 

I usually assume feints are simply a part of a character's OCV, but I like this as a prospective, "super feint," power.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: how I do "Feint" maneuver

 

Here's a previous discussion on handling feints, with some creative suggestions: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36106