Building: Evolving Adaptive Armour

[BhelliomRahl]

One of my players wants to play a hero who wears a Living Amour.  He says the armour was crafted from a creature which abilities allowed it to Adapt/Evolve to survive in any environment or overcome any obstacle or opponent.  The creature's Life Force was so strong that is still alive even now its any armour. (I know what manga he has been reading - "Akame Ga Kill!").

 

The Armour grants the following benefits:

1) Near Invulnerability"

2) Enhanced: Strength, Agility & Speed

3) Selection of Weapon: Halberd, Projectile Blades

4) Adaptive and Evolutionary

 

I have said that the abilities are relatively straight forward:

1) High Resistant Defense with Damage Reduction vs Stun

2) Increased: Strength, Dexterity, Speed and possible OCV & DCV.

3) Multipower: HKA & RKA

4) I have said this is a good narrative explanation for improving the Armour during the campaign.  However he has said he wants it to be active.  I could use some thoughts on this.

 

Ideas:

a) Variable Aid to boost certain abilities with a limitation that only in response to to environmental conditions.  

Build the a base level of 1&2 and then have a pool of points, possible a VPP which can be moved between them to adapt the armour to the situation.

c) He banks some of his experience points which I use during play to spontaneously evolve the armour. 

 

I would be interested to hear peoples ideas

[bubba smith]

guyver"?

[freakboy6117]

couple of questions is the adaption permanent or temporary and is it instant or is it a question of if something hurts him  next time he faces that foe he is resistant o it.

if it's temporary and instant for example you could  buy it as extra armour only verses one sfx at a time

if its permanent and takes a long time perhaps a multipool that can be added to each time a new attack effects him with exp.

[Mr. Gray]

I like the idea of the bank of CP used to evolve the armor during play. I would make it something like 10% of his total CP pool and put it under the GM’s control. Have the armor adapt based on the current game situation and at the end of each game session the points revert back to the pool and the ability disappears. The adaptability could give you a lot of flexibility in your game design.

[freakboy6117]

life support might be another appropriate power perhaps buying toxin and disease resistance with a limit must take damage from them first.

[薔薇語]

What can the armor adapt to?

 

enviromental conditions:

heat, cold, vacuum, pressure, radiation?

 

SpFX of attacks:

Fire, Ice, etc

 

something else?

 

If the former, buy life support like normal. Put on limits if the spfx really need it.

 

If the latter, go with a triggered aid to a defense vs the spfx of attack he has been hit with. The aid will fade with time and only offer protection after being hit.

 

If he wants permanent bonuses, then he just buys up his armor vs an effect or in general.

 

La Rose.

[BhelliomRahl]

I had a talk with my player last night and we attempted to clarify his concept.

1)  The armour needs to be exposed to the environment to adapt to it.  So if an attack used ice to freeze him initial it would work but if it was attempted again the armour would of adapted to be resistant to it.  Mechanical I was thing Power Defense/Damage Resistance with the limitation: Only against effects previously experienced (-1/4).  Of course there are only so many effects so the limitation could become redundant.

2)  Some of the evolution is permanent.  This is not only about what the armour experiences, but the PCs training and connection with the armour.  Which brings up the point that the armour is still living and to a sense possesses the Will of the creature it was created from.  As the armour grows and evolves the creatures will become stronger and might attempt to take the PCs body as its own.  I was planning to represent this as a Psychological Complication which in certain situations the armour's will dictate action unless the PC succeeds at an Ego roll.  My plan is to have him realize he has a choice; To give up the armour, to allow the armour to take over, to dominate the armour and possible the most difficult to fuse with the armour which would result in the most powerful form.  I will be interested to see how he handles it.

3)  The Armour is fully enclosed which results in Life Support: Does Not Breath, Immune to Disease and Poison with Limitation - Does not stop Disease or Poison linked to an attack that does body damage to PC.  If the PC experiences other environmental conditions the armour will adapt to survive them.

4) The Adaption ability is similar to Grendal's from Wearing the Cape Series by Marion Harmon (It is worth a read).  He is a Darwin type Hero meaning he has a base form and a well of power which he can use to enhance himself;  Strength, Agility, Speed, Movement, Defense and Offense.

 

I think what we have decided on is the Armour has a Base form and a VPP which can be used to enhance the armour as needed during battle.  In addition I will take a portion of his experience and bank it to use to evolve the armour as I see fit during game.  The PC will not be able to improve the armour himself but can give me more points to do it, however as the armour is an enhancement if he trains himself both physically and mentally his armoured form will be enhanced and the armour will change to match his capabilities.  His Desires/Needs could also trigger adaption and evolution if his Will is strong enough.  

Taking the armour improvement away from the player is not much of an issue as I usually build his characters for him.  He likes the Hero systems but just wants to play his character, he is not that interested in the creation of them, where as I enjoy the creation as much as the game so its a win for me.

 

He gave me the attached image for part of his inspiration.  Of course it was not needed as I introduced him to the Manga.  I find it quite evocative.

Also follow link to Wikia site on the Incursio armour. http://akamegakill.wikia.com/wiki/Incursio

[薔薇語]

First and foremost, I would be weary of putting major defense powers in a VPP. That can too likely lead to the player feeling that they aren't enough or the GM feeling like they are too much. And striking that balance can be hard. 


Since you have talked with your player more, may I ask you some questions that are more specific then? 

First, how long is this adaption for in more concrete terms? 

 

For example, your Hero faces Chris COLD on May first at 1pm. The first attack CC does is a cold based attack. The adaptive armor has NEVER experienced cold attacks before and is caught off guard. Thus the Hero takes a bit more damage. Now the Adaptive armor knows what cold damage is and adjusts. How long does that adjustment last? 

For the rest of the battle? 
For the rest of the day?

For the rest of the month? Year?
Forever? 

Now, on May second your Hero faces Fred Fire. Fred attacks your Hero with a fire attack. The armor has NEVER experienced fire attacks before and is caught off guard. Thus the Hero takes a bit more damage. Now the Adaptive armor knows what fire damage is and adjusts. How long does that adjustment last? 
 

For the rest of the battle? 
For the rest of the day?

For the rest of the month? Year?
Forever? 

Now, on May Third your Hero faces Christy COLD who wants revenge. She attacks your Hero with a cold attack. The armor experienced cold attacks two days ago. Does it still know how to block it? Has the time caused it to weaken? Has the fire attack caused it to re-prioritize to protect against fire and not cold? 

- Full protection? 
- Zero (extra) protection? 

- Reduced (extra) protection? 
If reduced - why? 
- Time?
- Attacked by different Special effect? 

 

What is the time scale between experiencing an attack of one type and adapting to it? 

Your Hero faces Lightning Lucy on May 4th. Lightning Lucy is speed 12 and uses lightning bolts to attack your Hero each turn with a hit. Your Hero is speed 2 and only acts on turn six and twelve. When does your Hero's armor adapt? 

 

Turn 1 (post attack)?
Turn 2 (start)? 
Turn 6 (on the Hero's Dex)
Turn 12 / Post 12 Recover? 

On May 5th your Hero faces Thunder Theo who seeks revenge. She is also speed 12. He also has Autofire on each of her attacks. He rolls to hit and succeeds in landing 5 shots against your Hero. Does he do full damage with each hit in that ONE attack? Or does the armor adapt between autofire hit 1 and 2? 

 

----

If the General answers are that the armor remembers for a long time (week+) and takes effect generally after being hit (maybe in between Autofire - maybe not). And that the armor doesn't have to choose one special effect to adapt to but can generally do all special effects at once, then we are talking about normal armor with a weird limitation. A limitation that I would think is worth at most -1/4 and probably really worth just -0. If the adaption only lasted a single day, then maybe a -1/4th lim would be appropriate. But if it last a week or more, then no lim at all. 

 

If the armor is limited to one special effect at a time, then buying a set amount of defense with an "all or nothing" and / or "limited to x special effect after first experiencing it" seems good. This would mean he could buy 2 levels of Damage Negation with XYZ Lim. After being hit with the Freeze Ray of Chris COLD, his armor adapted. The next attack loses two DCs. But if he is attack with the Fire Ball of Fred FIRE before hand, he gets no extra bonus and the GM must decide if the Adaptive armor re-aligns to the Fire Attack or stays with the COLD attack. 

 

----

As to the life support, unless there is an actual chance he could die or be severely injured or incapacitated by vacuum, cold, etc, then he should just by the Life Support as is (no lims, etc) and define the special effect as "adaptive armor". 

 

La Rose. 

[Christopher]

I had a talk with my player last night and we attempted to clarify his concept.

1)  The armour needs to be exposed to the environment to adapt to it.  So if an attack used ice to freeze him initial it would work but if it was attempted again the armour would of adapted to be resistant to it.  Mechanical I was thing Power Defense/Damage Resistance with the limitation: Only against effects previously experienced (-1/4).  Of course there are only so many effects so the limitation could become redundant.

2)  Some of the evolution is permanent.  This is not only about what the armour experiences, but the PCs training and connection with the armour.  Which brings up the point that the armour is still living and to a sense possesses the Will of the creature it was created from.  As the armour grows and evolves the creatures will become stronger and might attempt to take the PCs body as its own.  I was planning to represent this as a Psychological Complication which in certain situations the armour's will dictate action unless the PC succeeds at an Ego roll.  My plan is to have him realize he has a choice; To give up the armour, to allow the armour to take over, to dominate the armour and possible the most difficult to fuse with the armour which would result in the most powerful form.  I will be interested to see how he handles it.

3)  The Armour is fully enclosed which results in Life Support: Does Not Breath, Immune to Disease and Poison with Limitation - Does not stop Disease or Poison linked to an attack that does body damage to PC.  If the PC experiences other environmental conditions the armour will adapt to survive them.

To 1) as Rose said, how long does the adaption last and against how many SFX's can it adapt at any given time?

Also does the armor adapt instantly (trigger or limitation level), next phase he has, or does it need a 0 phase action? What if he is knocked out/SPD drained to min speed?

The answer varries heavily based on those.

 

2) That is really just spending XP/left over CP to buy new/stronger powers and shifting your points around. I would not put that in the form of a complication.

Notice that there is a big difference between the Character having no control over something and the Author (in this case Player) having no control over something. Hulk tends to Hulk out with oddly convenient timing. Since the author still has control over when the power triggers.

Also avoid just giving a player disadvantages. Disadvantages should be either everyman or choosen by the player. Disadvatanges are a request by the player to make it an issue in game.

 

3) Does not cure disease already incurred is based on the Disease having the "defense applies only once" variant of DoT. Plus that the whole thing is worn (rather then innate like supermans resistance to disease). If t was a symbiotic, permanently fused armor like that spiderman suit it would be another matter.

[Armitage]

The 4e Minuteman robot in The Mutant File had a 10 PD/10 ED Hardened Force Field that only defended against the last type of attack that did BODY damage (-1).  It only worked against one special effect at a time.  Punch the robot hard enough to do BODY damage and it gains extra defense against future physical Normal Attacks.  Hit it with a blast of flame and the physical protection changes to extra defenses against fire.  Punch it again and it has no extra protection from that punch, but it will be protected from the next one (unless it's hit with something different before then).

The Minuteman was an Automaton with Takes No STUN, so the Limitation might be less for a living character if the defense reacts to STUN damage as well.

[BhelliomRahl]

Firstly I refer to it as armour but it is not something separate of the PC, he is bound to it and can summon it as required.  He gains no benefit from the  armour unless it is equipped. 

 

Armour Forms:

Base: The most basic form the armour takes with any energy reserve

Balanced: This is where the armour's energy reserve is used to enhance the armour abilities in a balanced manner - This is it standard form.

 

Evolution is improvement to the armour's base form.

 

Adaption is the armour's energy reserve being redistributed to meet a specific requirements.  Adaption is a matter of conscious thought and can be done as desired but is not instantaneous, was thinking about a Turn to complete. It might be best to represent this as a Variable Aid instead of the pool but the player wants to be able to maintain an adaption on a continuous basis.

 

My player wants the Evolution to be permanent.  Meaning if it it exposed to cold it is resistant to it from then on.  Meaning that as time progresses the armour will become resistant to a wider range of effects.  Its one of the reasons my first thought to have have a bank of experience points which I use to increase the Armour's abilities during game play.  The most straight forward would be just to buy the defenses as standard with the understanding that it does not work the first time attacked with it.

The armour evolution is both instinctive and conscious.  The armour will instinctive change to an attack's effect but it is not instantaneous, the more the armour is exposed to the effect the quicker it will adapt however if the PC will is strong enough he can force the evolution.

 

I will think through some more and update later.

[薔薇語]

Adaption is the armour's energy reserve being redistributed to meet a specific requirements.  Adaption is a matter of conscious thought and can be done as desired but is not instantaneous, was thinking about a Turn to complete. It might be best to represent this as a Variable Aid instead of the pool but the player wants to be able to maintain an adaption on a continuous basis.

Based on what you have described, AID is not the power you want. Why is that the case? Because AID will grant the recipient a bonus but that bonus will fade with time. If you want the Armor to give a bonus to defense against a certain special effect for a limited amount of time, then AID is a good way to go. But, as you and your player said "[the] player wants the Evolution to be permanent". Permanent means "not AID".

 

My player wants the Evolution to be permanent.  Meaning if it it exposed to cold it is resistant to it from then on.  Meaning that as time progresses the armour will become resistant to a wider range of effects.  Its one of the reasons my first thought to have have a bank of experience points which I use to increase the Armour's abilities during game play.  The most straight forward would be just to buy the defenses as standard with the understanding that it does not work the first time attacked with it.

I think banking points off to the side is an option you do not need to and generally should not take. I think you are making this build far more complicated than it needs to be. Others have suggested the build I would go with, but I will restate it below.

 

The armour evolution is both instinctive and conscious.  The armour will instinctive change to an attack's effect but it is not instantaneous, the more the armour is exposed to the effect the quicker it will adapt however if the PC will is strong enough he can force the evolution.

I am really not sure what to make of this set of statements. Please clarify.

 

---

 

Adaptive Armor Build.

 

Base Armor: 45 pts.

 

Resistant Protection (10 PD/10 ED/10 Power Defense)

 

Adaptive Armor Bonus: 45 pts.

 

Resistant Protection (10 PD/10 ED/10 Power Defense); Limited Power Only vs experienced SpFX (-0)

 

--

 

The above build would mean that against all attacks the Hero has 10rPD, rED, and rPwD.

 

The above build would mean that against Special Effects the Armor has experienced before, he would have an extra 10rPD, rED, and rPwD. This would give him an effective 10rPD, rED, and rPwD against previous experienced special effects.

 

Thus, if the player fights Corporal Cool and is hit with an ice ray (and it is the first time vs COLD special effects), then he would only have 10rED against the first attack. From that point on, though, he would have 20. Against Captain Cooler, who he fights later that day, he would still have 20rED against Cooler's Ice Ray. And against Colonel Coolest, who he fights the next year, he would also have 20rED against that Ice Ray.

 

This allows the armor to gain defense after being exposed to a special effect and for that defense to last forever. This seems to be what the player wants. This build does NOT require the setting aside of points. Nor does this bill need the Player or GM to do any on the spot builds or rearranging of points. Everything is done and easily understood. If the player wants the defenses to be higher, he can just buy them up like any Brick would buy up theirs.

 

---

I think the limitation of "only vs special effects he has experienced" is worth only a a -0 limitation as it isn't limiting at all. Unless this character is absolutely brand new with your campaign, the player can easily argue that the armor has experienced all the normal types of special effects (Fire, electricity, cold, etc). Likewise, the likelihood of him coming across completely new special effects on a regular basis is probably low. Lastly, unless ALL of his armor is locked away, he will still have a decent amount of defense. If ALL his armor had the lim, then maybe it would be worth a -1/4 because it would mean there is a slight risk of him taking serious damage every once in a long while.

 

As to putting the armor activation on a delay, the above build would allow you to decide that as you choose. Nothing in the build presented above expressly states that the effects of the Adaptive armor starts after the first contact with a special effect or waits until the player gets to act. In general, I would allow the armor to take effect immediately after the first attack / first series of attacks if autofire, finish up. Thus Corporal Cool gets his Autofire Ice Ray to hit 3 times and each of the three hits deals damage without the extra defense. Immediately following the conclusion of that attack, the Adaptive armor kicks in. If you want there to be a longer delay or for the player to actively have to turn it on, then I could see a reason for the limitation to be increased but even then, not by more than a -1/4th.

 

---

 

I hope that helps. If you think the above build is not quite capturing what you want, then could you please explain why? If you want to continue with a VPP or AID build, could you explain why you want those builds as opposed to standard limited armor? What benefit does it give given that the player wants something that can adapt quickly and is PERMANENT?

 

La Rose.

[Christopher]

My player wants the Evolution to be permanent.  Meaning if it it exposed to cold it is resistant to it from then on.  Meaning that as time progresses the armour will become resistant to a wider range of effects.

Then you have a sufficient amount of defenses with the limit "must have experienced the damaging effect at least once". Wich will propably be a -0 Limitation:

It does not work agaisnt cerrain special effects. The list is very small and shrinking progressively.

It only skips SFX for the first time in the adventuring career he ecounters them. And then only for the first phase he is subjected to it.

That is the main defense. "Just plain PD/ED, Resistant". Affects 100% of all attacks targetting PD or ED.

 

Then you also have the spccal case defense. In particular:

Defenses that goes even above the basic defenses, but only 1-2 SFX at a time.

Rarely used defenses, like life support, flash defenses*, the works.

For special defense the easiest way is a VPP. Enough real points to cover full space survival. As little control cost as possible.

I actually made an adapting armor character a while back. I'll try to find her.

[薔薇語]

Then you also have the spccal case defense. In particular:

Defenses that goes even above the basic defenses, but only 1-2 SFX at a time.

Rarely used defenses, like life support, flash defenses*, the works.

For special defense the easiest way is a VPP. Enough real points to cover full space survival. As little control cost as possible.

I would almost never allow someone to buy a life support via a build like this. Why? Because a reasonable player would know that the various LS can and will come up in a game. And since he wants his character to be immune to the effects of such environments, he should pay ahead of time for that ability. Unless there is a reasonable chance for him be quite hurt, given his desired special effect, then there is no reason to allow him to grab LS via a VPP. 

 

Next up, I still would not allow someone to get any additional armor (rPD, rED) via a VPP. That seems too prone to some abuse or ineffectiveness. Rather, I would encourage the player to buy 10rPD / 10rED with the -1/4 lim "only vs 1 or 2 recently experienced special effects". If it was only against 1 special effect and even more so if the character had to 'activate' the power, then I would call it a -1/2 lim. 

 

Now, to account for things like "Flash" or "Drain" etc. I might recommend buying 1 point of a variety of defenses. Then having an AID that can  add to them for most characters. But the problem here is that the player wants these bonuses to be permanent. If that is the case, then I would tell the player he must simply buy the defenses with the same Limitation as the armor build I suggested above. IF the player is willing to have the defenses NOT be permanent and fade with time, then point saving triggered AID build would be great. It would kick in once hit, add immediate defenses but wear off in time. Then later on the player can spend normal XP to increase the base defense that the AID is already going on. And he can justify the increase by showing how often he has had his AID build affect a certain defense. 

 

Lastly, I generally try to avoid VPPs when other options are available. Even more so when the powers one gets from the VPP are suppose to be Constant (advantage), Permanent (advantage) or become permanent (normal meaning). 

 

La Rose. 

[Cassandra]

VPP 30 Points, Half Phase (+1/2), No Skill Roll (+1/2), Armor Only (-1), Only Armor vs. a Specific Type of Attack (-1), Must have been exposed to such an attack before (-1)

 

Cost 42 Points (5th Edition Rules)

 

Basically is the character is hit with a say a heat attack they can have Armor +20 rED vs. Heat Only after the first attack.  Once they are hit with an attack they can adjust the armor for variable attacks that come up.  The character will need to keep a record of what attacks they have been exposed to.

[BhelliomRahl]

Thanks for the input.

 

We have decided to handle the evolution of the armour as just buying the armour as Resistant Defense and Power Defense and if an extremely exotic Special Effect is used we will half his defense the first time it is encountered.  He will also buy Life Support as standard.

 

We still need to work out the adaption ability.  Basically it is a similar principle to Tony Stark have multiple/interchangeable armours so he can change for what he needs.  The Player wants to do that with his armour.  It just occurred to me that an alternative method might be to use Multiform for the armour.  It might be slightly more restrictive than just having a pool of points which he can put into what he wants.  I liked the VPP method because it gave him so much flexibility but Multiform might be the better option from a mechanical/rule option.