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Is the Star Wars Galaxy Funtionally Illiterate?

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It's hard to buy an illiterate galaxy. I mean really hard. A high tech society of illiterates just doesn't seem feasible. Also as I recall in TESB when Luke was x winging his way to dagobah R2 was communicating with him but a small screen was displaying some kind of text in red letters. Maybe it was translating R2s beeps into text.

 

Also in ANH I think Luke read off the number for the trash compactor they were in. Just remembered that.

Yes, you've just described the only two instances of "reading" shown in the entire original trilogy. Which is why the thread title includes the phrase "functionally illiterate," ie - someone able to read a short Tweet or a couple of numbers, but little beyond that.

 

And as discussed in the OP link and many subsequent posts, the SW universe doesn't really look or act like your typical "high tech" society. Clearly there is a scientific caste who do the bulk of the inventing & building, and they're presumably literate. But the bulk of society shows few signs of literacy.

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Well, Han Solo was at least partially technologically competent. He did a lot of work on the millennium falcon, so did Chewbacca.

 

Luke was competent enough to repair C-3po's arm.

 

So I don't think people were incompetent, the movie just focused on action more than anything else.

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Well, Han Solo was at least partially technologically competent. He did a lot of work on the millennium falcon, so did Chewbacca.

 

Luke was competent enough to repair C-3po's arm.

 

So I don't think people were incompetent, the movie just focused on action more than anything else.

Did I miss something?

 

When did the conversation become about competence and incompetence?

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Did the palindromedary eat the original topic when I wasn't looking?

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Did I miss something?When did the conversation become about competence and incompetence?Lucius AlexanderDid the palindromedary eat the original topic when I wasn't looking?

Earlier in this thread bigdamnhero posted this:

 

Advanced science & technology exist, but only the scientific elite really understand any of it - the vast bulk of the population is completely ignorant of how their gadgets work. (Even more so than in our day.)

 

You replied to his post.

 

I just don't buy the idea that the society is technologically inept. In fact to add to the argument that most people can understand and use tech rmemeber how anakin but c-3po and a pod racer. Apparently several people on tattooing could build pod racers. I mean I do Kore than use tech. I finally built my last computer. I picked it out part by part based on a budget, researched every part I picked, assembled it from scratch, transferred my old system's windows to it and it works pretty dsmn good for a budget game capable rig. I may be more technologically competent than a lot of people but there are plenty of other guys who build their own rigs. The knowledge of how stuff works is available. Now I couldn't design or build a CPU. Sure, but really CPU complexity has reached a point where computers have been designing them with limited human input for a long time so no human can design a modern CPU alone and of course it requires a high tech manufacturing plant to create them. Could be like that in star wars too.

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Well, Han Solo was at least partially technologically competent. He did a lot of work on the millennium falcon, so did Chewbacca.

No one is saying they're incompetent or stupid; I've said repeatedly that illiterate does not necessarily equal idiot.

 

Sure, they were competent mechanics, at least when working on a 70-year-old model.* They're able to swap parts around, repair existing systems, and so forth. Tho even then they still seem to need Droids for technical diagnostics (see Threepio & Artoo in Empire), and without them there seems to be a fair amount of "Try it now!" guesswork involved. Han & Chewie are the equivalent of the auto mechanic who prefers to work on older models because they're simpler and they know where all the parts go. And nothing wrong with that! When I need my carburetor replaced, I don't care if my mechanic has an MS in Automotive Engineering Technology. Nor do you need a degree to cobble together a go cart pod racer from spare (ie - existing) parts.

 

But we also need people who do understand the theories and principles behind how and why cars work so they can improve on them and invent new stuff. Those people seem to be frightfully rare in SW, to the point where the Empire is able to conscript basically all of them at a handful of scientific bases.

 

Ask the question from the other direction: if you were to design a sci-fi(ish) society where 99% of the population is functionally illiterate and relies on Droids for anything above manual mechanical labor, with only a tiny scientific elite that can read and actually understands basic scientific principles, AND where there's no journalism or reference encyclopedias so that all knowledge seems to rely entirely on word-of-mouth, what would that society look like? I'd argue it would look pretty-much exactly like Star Wars.

 

 

* The YT-1300 series is 70+ years old at the time of Ep4; I don't think it's ever stated exactly how old the Falcon specifically is, but certainly everyone talks about it like it's an antique.

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A couple other ideas, now that you got me thinking. (See what you did?)

 

In my current SW game, one of the ancillary themes has been the idea of Droid rights, given that Droids whose memories aren't wiped every few years seem to develop personalities and reasoning capabilities that seem largely indistinguishable from sentience. At what point do you cross the line from "Toaster's don't need rights" to "Droids are essentially a slave race?" This isn't exactly a new question, in SW or in SciFi generally.

 

But how does it change the equation where, instead of providing cheap manual labor (as with most human slaves throughout our history) the Droids are essentially the technicians, the only ones capable of maintaining your machines & gadgets? (Especially since many SW fringe planets seem only habitable with mechanical assistance.) Losing control of your supply of cheap labor and having to now actually pay workers is one thing. Losing control of the technician class is a whole `nother matter, and you can see why most "fleshies" in SW wouldn't want to examine the idea too closely. Again, especially if there are limited ways to spread the notion that Droids are people. (i.e. - no Uncle Tom's Cabin.)

 

Similarly, some sociologists/psychologists have shown that reading (and particularly reading fiction) is critical to developing a sense of empathy or sympathy for other people, ie the ability to see the world through someone else's eyes. Some historians have pointed to the "reading revolution" of the 17th and 18th Century as the end of medieval views and the start of our "modern" view of individualism and human rights. Now in a medieval world - where most people only rarely encounter people from other cultures, regarding other cultures as mysterious, unknowable, and therefore frightening - is obviously bad, but has arguably limited consequences, compared to a modern or futuristic society where those sorts of interaction are far more commonplace. So what how would that impact a functionally-illiterate futuristic society?

 

(Again, more interested in the implications for RPG world-building than in debating SW canon...)

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A couple other ideas, now that you got me thinking. (See what you did?)

 

In my current SW game, one of the ancillary themes has been the idea of Droid rights, given that Droids whose memories aren't wiped every few years seem to develop personalities and reasoning capabilities that seem largely indistinguishable from sentience. At what point do you cross the line from "Toaster's don't need rights" to "Droids are essentially a slave race?" This isn't exactly a new question, in SW or in SciFi generally.

 

But how does it change the equation where, instead of providing cheap manual labor (as with most human slaves throughout our history) the Droids are essentially the technicians, the only ones capable of maintaining your machines & gadgets? (Especially since many SW fringe planets seem only habitable with mechanical assistance.) Losing control of your supply of cheap labor and having to now actually pay workers is one thing. Losing control of the technician class is a whole `nother matter, and you can see why most "fleshies" in SW wouldn't want to examine the idea too closely. Again, especially if there are limited ways to spread the notion that Droids are people. (i.e. - no Uncle Tom's Cabin.)

 

Similarly, some sociologists/psychologists have shown that reading (and particularly reading fiction) is critical to developing a sense of empathy or sympathy for other people, ie the ability to see the world through someone else's eyes. Some historians have pointed to the "reading revolution" of the 17th and 18th Century as the end of medieval views and the start of our "modern" view of individualism and human rights. Now in a medieval world - where most people only rarely encounter people from other cultures, regarding other cultures as mysterious, unknowable, and therefore frightening - is obviously bad, but has arguably limited consequences, compared to a modern or futuristic society where those sorts of interaction are far more commonplace. So what how would that impact a functionally-illiterate futuristic society?

 

(Again, more interested in the implications for RPG world-building than in debating SW canon...)

All kinds of Droids are in some way Physically Limited. C-3PO can not walk faster then a certain speed.

R2-D2 can not communicate without the other side having the Langauge knowledge.

With most of them, the 3 laws of Robotics work (can not harm a human; can not tell lies for Protocoll Droids). And these laws can not work with a true AI.

 

And unlike the AI we can build, they seem to be incapable to just swapping bodies. The only canon case was when C-3PO's head and body were swapped during the "Attack of the Clones" storyline. And even in that case, there was a clear "feedback" from the Body to the head:

And that case might not even be normal. There might be saveguards in place against "droids swapping bodies" or even "upgrading bodies". They might not apply to Droids cobelled together by Junkyard kids.

 

Droids in SW are more like a "genetically engineered Lifeform" then what I would call a AI. They seem incapable to transfer bodies.

As a result R2 being Skilled Mechanic does not really mater. He lacks the ability to "break his limits" using that knowledge. He seems incapable and unwilling to just build himself a body that could do "whatever he pleases".

 

 

That being said, if you do let them run without wipe they appear to be quite capable of manipulation and other AI-only behavior. The Astromech Droid R2-D2 was capable of manipulating Luke Skywalker into removing the restraining bolt, despite the langauge barrier (needing 3PO to translate). That is just how dangerous droids without memory wiping become. And that is before you consider the Security Problems of not regulary wiping.

 

 

The SW galaxy as a whole had apparently a number of "Droid Uprisings". Usually they coninceded with "Droid Equality" movements.

 

Maybe the SW galaxy by sheer scale makes Murphys Law a certainty?

If you have enough Jedi, Dark Jedi (and even Sith) will emerge eventually.

If you got enough droids that are not memory wiped regulary, a group that wants to "kill all Organics" will emerge eventually.

If you have enough progress, a "Man made Appocalypse" will happen eventually.

 

So by sociological selection, any idea to go beyond that save level has been "weeded out" as too dangerous. Societies might have developed their Riggedness, because those that did not wiped themself out. By the same reasons, Droids are being kept from becomming dangerous.

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With most of them, the 3 laws of Robotics work (can not harm a human; can not tell lies for Protocoll Droids). And these laws can not work with a true AI.

Hmm. Well Threepio & Artoo both lie throughout the trilogy: Artoo lying about Leia's message, Threepio repeatedly lying to Stormtroopers, etc. I can't think of any examples of them harming anyone, but we know that battle droids exist, so clearly "do no harm" isn't a universal law. Either way, it does seem like at least some droids are capable of breaking/exceeding their programming to some degree.

 

Droids in SW are more like a "genetically engineered Lifeform" then what I would call a AI.

I'm not quite sure I understand the distinction you're drawing here. Care to elaborate?

 

That being said, if you do let them run without wipe they appear to be quite capable of manipulation and other AI-only behavior. The Astromech Droid R2-D2 was capable of manipulating Luke Skywalker into removing the restraining bolt, despite the langauge barrier (needing 3PO to translate). That is just how dangerous droids without memory wiping become. And that is before you consider the Security Problems of not regulary wiping.

Exactly. The very fact that restraining bolts are a thing implies that Droids disobeying orders or otherwise "thinking for themselves" is not uncommon.

 

In our current SW game, my PC is a protocol droid who has figured out how to make fake restraining bolts. "Why, I could never have done such a thing, as you can see by my perfectly functioning restraining bolt!" :angel:

 

If you got enough droids that are not memory wiped regulary, a group that wants to "kill all Organics" will emerge eventually.

Heh. In our game, the handshake protocol for self-aware droids is "Wanna kill all fleshies?" in binary. But I'm pretty sure that's not canon. :snicker:

 

The SW galaxy as a whole had apparently a number of "Droid Uprisings". Usually they coninceded with "Droid Equality" movements.

...

So by sociological selection, any idea to go beyond that save level has been "weeded out" as too dangerous. Societies might have developed their Riggedness, because those that did not wiped themself out. By the same reasons, Droids are being kept from becomming dangerous.

Yeah, in that context "Mind wipe your droids regularly so they don't become sentient" makes a certain practical sense, tho it raises a host of ethical questions.

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Hmm. Well Threepio & Artoo both lie throughout the trilogy: Artoo lying about Leia's message, Threepio repeatedly lying to Stormtroopers, etc. I can't think of any examples of them harming anyone, but we know that battle droids exist, so clearly "do no harm" isn't a universal law. Either way, it does seem like at least some droids are capable of breaking/exceeding their programming to some degree.

 

I'm not quite sure I understand the distinction you're drawing here. Care to elaborate?

 

Exactly. The very fact that restraining bolts are a thing implies that Droids disobeying orders or otherwise "thinking for themselves" is not uncommon.

 

In our current SW game, my PC is a protocol droid who has figured out how to make fake restraining bolts. "Why, I could never have done such a thing, as you can see by my perfectly functioning restraining bolt!" :angel:

 

Heh. In our game, the handshake protocol for self-aware droids is "Wanna kill all fleshies?" in binary. But I'm pretty sure that's not canon. :snicker:

 

Yeah, in that context "Mind wipe your droids regularly so they don't become sentient" makes a certain practical sense, tho it raises a host of ethical questions.

3 Laws:

R2-D2 is a astromech. So protection agaisnt lies does not rank high enough. Usually you wipe him so often, he has no reason to lie to you.

C-3PO - when did he lie? Name the exact example, ideally with Video. Pretty sure there is a way around this being a lie. Including him just translating what R2-D2 told him to say ;)

And of course you skip "do no harm" with war droids. Wich results in Droid armies, wich results in people hating "able to do harm" droids for a few centuries.

 

AI vs Engineered Lifeform:

All lifeforms have hardcoded limits that are near impossible to overcome. A fish can not learn to fly or grow opposing thumbs. And he can not jsut swap over into a body that has opposable thumbs.

The Ability of AI to "just get a better body" is what makes many solutions to making them save near impossible. Whatever hardware limits you apply, it can just build and migrate to/spawn a child in a body without those limits. The approach to make it save just became moot.

Somehow the SW galaxy has figured out how to apply unavoidable hardware limits to it's droids. That is what makes them a whole lot safer. Wich explains why they can give them high technical maintenance tasks.

 

Restraining Bolts:

And just think about all the problems that could cause for society, if that knowledge (and the willingness to use it) becomes commong knowledge among droids. You have a Droid Rebellion in the making. And exactly the reason people wipe their droids memories regulary.

Directive 7 started somehow after all:

 

Ethical Questions:

Ethilcal Questions are secondary if every planet has a landmark for "that is what happens if you do not wipe your droids". And some planets actually are the landmarks.

In the Expanded Universe, we had a bunch of Assasin Droids take control of the 2nd Deathstar, among other things.

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R2-D2 is a astromech. So protection agaisnt lies does not rank high enough.

I don't see why it wouldn't - an astromech that holds the entire crew's life in it's non-hands can probably do more damage than a lying protocol droid or cargo loader.

 

C-3PO - when did he lie? Name the exact example, ideally with Video. Pretty sure there is a way around this being a lie.

I couldn't find videos without spending more time than I have right now. But the first one that comes to mind is Ep 4, on the Death Star, when the Droids are discovered in the control room by Stormtroopers after Luke & Han have run off to rescue Leia. 3PO first tells the Stormtroopers something like "They're madmen; they're headed for the detention level" which is technically true, so okay there. But then a second later he tells the remaining guard "All of this excitement has overrun the circuits in my counterpart here. If you don't mind, I'd like to take him down to maintenance" which is two lies for the price of one.

 

Then of course he lies to the Ewoks later in Jedi when he tells them he's a god and will use his magic powers if they displease him. Now in this case you could argue he's just doing what Han/Luke told him to do, and IIRC he does raise some protest that "impersonating a deity" is against his programming. But note he never says that lying is against his programming.

 

Those are the ones I'm sure of off the top of my head - I have vague memories of a couple others, but I'd have to rewatch them to verify.

 

And of course you skip "do no harm" with war droids. Wich results in Droid armies, wich results in people hating "able to do harm" droids for a few centuries.

Sure. But do we have any evidence that "do no harm" is programmed into any Droids? I can't think of any examples of Artoo or Threepio directly harming anyone, other than Artoo shocking a couple Ewoks and whatever that creature was on Jabba's sail barge. But neither can I think of an example where a Droid refuses to harm anyone based on their programming? I'm just not sure there's evidence to suggest the 3 Laws (or something similar) are a thing in SW.

 

 

AI vs Engineered Lifeform: OK, I get the distinction you're making; thanks for clarifying.

 

 

Restraining Bolts:

And just think about all the problems that could cause for society, if that knowledge (and the willingness to use it) becomes commong knowledge among droids.

Oh absolutely! I'm waiting for the day the GM uses that against me!

 

And exactly the reason people wipe their droids memories regulary.

Hmm. Actually I'd say it speaks to how unreliable droids are, regardless of memory wipe status. If non-aware droids always followed orders, there would be no needs for restraining bolts. And if you discover your droid is self-aware (or might be), all you should have to do is wipe their memory and problem solved. The more I think of it, the fact that bolts are needed at all speaks to a lack of consistently-programmed droid "laws."

 

Ethilcal Questions are secondary if every planet has a landmark for "that is what happens if you do not wipe your droids". And some planets actually are the landmarks.

Yeah well, ethical questions often take second place to practical considerations in most universes, including ours. Tho that doesn't invalidate the questions themselves IMO. Applied to people: say a few centuries after the trilogy, the mon calamari or some other race becomes dominant in the galaxy, concludes that humans are to blame for the whole Evil Empire mess, and decides to lobotomize all humans because they might stir up similar trouble later on? Obviously most of us would say that's horrifically unethical, even if it were applied to a species like the Huts. So why is it okay to do it to droids? I realize that's not a 100% apples-to-apples comparison; I'm just saying there are some uncomfortable parallels.

 

Killer Droid Armies notwithstanding: my original point was that as reluctant as people have historically been to free slaves that provide mainly manual labor, I can only imagine they'd be orders of magnitude more resistant to the idea of freeing droid "slaves" if they do all the technical work that keeps galactic society functioning.

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Another instance of reading was in ESB when solo is apparently reading a data screen in the falcon's cockpit and sees Londo is nearby.

 

As to droids, one person made a reff to c3po moving slowly. C-3po was a very restrictive costume with a man in it. That was all the faster he could move. Later movies had faster droids because they were CGI.

 

Did droids have the 3 laws? I don't think so. They had to be fitted with restraining bolts, a droid tortured leia on the death star and there was a bounty hunter droid named IG 88. Also of course the droid soldiers. Then we had rogue one with k2so, my favorite character moving quick quickly and shooting people easily.

 

Star wars wasn't deeply thought out, they didn't consider things like the 3 laws and such. If you want deeply thought out star wars storied, read "heir to the empire" by Timothy zahn.

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R2 lying:

Most of the ways a Astromech could lie in, would destroy the ship. So self-preservation kicks in.

And first they would need a reason to lie. Memory Wiping and only turning them on when the shield generators are offline really helps with delaying that. For all we know, R2 had not been memorywiped in decades when Phanton Menace came around.

You usually memory wipe them for security concerns (they know stuff like Hyperlane paths) alone. So one being indendant enough to not.

Most importantly they did wipe 3PO but not R2 at the end of EP 3.

 

C-3PO lying:
I still hold the possibility that on the Deathstar, any lie was just "faithfully translating what R2-D2 said".

With both parts of the pair, the ability to follow the 3 laws was "eroded" by long not-wiping. Wich is exatly why people keep wiping.

But a lot of my knowledge comes from Legends. So we have to see if it will still hold.

Still, you really do not want a translator droid to lie to you during a negotiation. Wars could start that way.

 

 

Restraining Bolts:

There are odd cases where you can not wipe the droid right now.

Could be you are simply out of time (EP 4) or want to preserve the memory (that one Clonewars Episode*)

And even the Restaining bolt themself do not seem to work as absolutes:

 

Droid reliability:
They are reliable enough if you regulary wipe their memory. Wich is why that became Standart Operating Procedure.

Not doing that is frowned upon. Even Obi-Wan critizises Anakin for not doing that to R2 regulary.

 

And Mace Windu was highly critical of the Faith Anakin put in R2 at first:

 

*Clonewars is considered higher level Canon right now. T Level at least.

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As to droids, one person made a reff to c3po moving slowly. C-3po was a very restrictive costume with a man in it. That was all the faster he could move. Later movies had faster droids because they were CGI.

Even when C3PO was CGI, he still moved noticeably slower then a Seperatist Droid. Yes, compared to 3PO a Seperatist Droid was not the worst at something.

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My guess is that Star Wars droids are generally programmed to be loyal to their owner.  Doesn't always take, but that's their default setting.  Even if you memory wipe them, it's probably like the flashy thing in Men in Black.  The personality doesn't really change.  3PO is still an uptight snob.  R2 is still independent and doesn't listen to people.  So wiping their memory wouldn't really be like killing them.  After all, it's played for laughs in one of the prequels.  That's also why droids don't completely freak out if they know you're going to wipe their minds.  They aren't going to die, they're just going to forget what happened recently.  Not that they're normally super-concerned with human activities anyway.  There may be an element of "oh good, I'm gonna forget that damn 'Gangnam Style' song my last master made me listen to again and again."

 

Default droid settings probably give them a different emotional makeup than humans.  They don't seem to need sex, or food.  A lot of them seem pretty happy to just serve their purpose.  3PO likes being a protocol droid.  R2 would normally like being an astromech droid, but that's not really what he is.  He's a spy.  Your average droid is doing exactly what he wants to do.  "Ambition" isn't really a part of a droid's emotional package.

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Even when C3PO was CGI, he still moved noticeably slower then a Seperatist Droid. Yes, compared to 3PO a Seperatist Droid was not the worst at something.

By the time c3po could be CGI his slow motion had been established. K2so was free to be as fast and agile as a human.

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By the time c3po could be CGI his slow motion had been established. K2so was free to be as fast and agile as a human.

K2SO was a sort-off Combat droid. Imperial Make in particular. Less mobility limitations made sense for those cases.

I asume he had more loyality hardware/programming. And was normally under a very strict Mind Wipe shedule, to avoid any independance.

 

I can not remember if K2SO was reprogrammed or independant. But in any case, it showcases nicely why you do not want a droid that good at killing people without tight control. He never even got a Blaster most of the movie.

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Right. Although it was also specifically stated that his "quirky" personality was a side effect of his reprogramming, which implies that such things are not simply the result of accumulating too much memory.

 

Also, while it appears that K2SO is bound to follow Cassian's orders, IIRC at the end he is able to defy Cassian's direct orders re sealing the door to the data vault and holding off the Imperials in a suicidal last stand. In fact now that I think about it, he also defied Cassian's order earlier to stay on the ship simply because he "got bored." (Tho that could be interpreted as an excuse when the real reason was he knew they'd likely need his help.)

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Part of the safeguards against droids taking over would be that 1) they don't seem to have "internet" like access, and 2) they each have their own distinct personalities.

 

R2-D2 gets information from Cloud City's main computer, but from the description he's talking to another AI.  3PO even tells him not to trust strange computers.  It seemed like he was more talking on the phone to another person than he was directly accessing information.  He is able to shut down the garbage disposal on the Death Star, but that doesn't seem like it would be a high priority system.  Most droids seem to have to speak to one another vocally to transfer information, and some of them are jerks.  Just because you're a droid, that doesn't mean you like other droids.

 

Data transfer speeds in Star Wars also appears to be pretty slow.  The only time we see a fast connection is in Rogue One where they use that giant satellite dish.  The rest of the time it looks like they use a physical data chip to transfer info.  If a droid's brain can't be "uploaded" into another form, that gives them some limitations very similar to humans.

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Part of the safeguards against droids taking over would be that 1) they don't seem to have "internet" like access, and 2) they each have their own distinct personalities.

 

R2-D2 gets information from Cloud City's main computer, but from the description he's talking to another AI.  3PO even tells him not to trust strange computers.  It seemed like he was more talking on the phone to another person than he was directly accessing information.  He is able to shut down the garbage disposal on the Death Star, but that doesn't seem like it would be a high priority system.  Most droids seem to have to speak to one another vocally to transfer information, and some of them are jerks.  Just because you're a droid, that doesn't mean you like other droids.

 

Data transfer speeds in Star Wars also appears to be pretty slow.  The only time we see a fast connection is in Rogue One where they use that giant satellite dish.  The rest of the time it looks like they use a physical data chip to transfer info.  If a droid's brain can't be "uploaded" into another form, that gives them some limitations very similar to humans.

Regarding transfer Speeds:

It was the complete technical drawing of a moon sized space station. I once saw the entire energy/water transfer plan for a small city. The DS plans had more detail and data just around one of the hangars. And it was a few orders of magnitude bigger then even those hangars.

I doubt the plan would be measured in something as small as petabytes. That is the kind of plan size, that not even the SW galaxy handles regulary. The plan of a 1.6 km Star Destroyer might be a "size you normally handle".

Most likely thoe plans were some kind of humongous database that could be read to view (parts of) the plan - usually the small part your team needed right now.

 

Avoiding that droids can just swap bodies - or build a child droid that lacks a hardware limit - does a ton to make AI save. Especially if knowledge of how to do the unsafe hardware was lost to time. "Subagent safety" is a really big part of AI safety and dodging it makes the whole mess actually doable.

A "human brain" simulation would propably be save. The issue is, that "a human brain simulation" is some of the stuff we can only build later after we have a ton of experience with non-brain-sim-AGI. It is the longterm goal, not a "we can do it right now" solution.

https://youtu.be/eaYIU6YXr3w

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Regarding transfer Speeds:

It was the complete technical drawing of a moon sized space station. I once saw the entire energy/water transfer plan for a small city. The DS plans had more detail and data just around one of the hangars. And it was a few orders of magnitude bigger then even those hangars.

I doubt the plan would be measured in something as small as petabytes. That is the kind of plan size, that not even the SW galaxy handles regulary. The plan of a 1.6 km Star Destroyer might be a "size you normally handle".

Most likely thoe plans were some kind of humongous database that could be read to view (parts of) the plan - usually the small part your team needed right now.

 

Avoiding that droids can just swap bodies - or build a child droid that lacks a hardware limit - does a ton to make AI save. Especially if knowledge of how to do the unsafe hardware was lost to time. "Subagent safety" is a really big part of AI safety and dodging it makes the whole mess actually doable.

A "human brain" simulation would propably be save. The issue is, that "a human brain simulation" is some of the stuff we can only build later after we have a ton of experience with non-brain-sim-AGI. It is the longterm goal, not a "we can do it right now" solution.

Touching on what you said above it is interesting how the rebels found the deathstar's weakness so easily and quickly. Good god that was a hell of a database as you suggested. Maybe they had a super intelligent computer analyzing it at an ungodly rate of speed.

 

Of course rogue one retconned this a little. But going by the original movie it was...incredible they found it so easily. I suppose it might have been obvious triggering the main reactor would be the way to go, and they found the exhaust port but it also makes it hard to believe the empire didn't know it was there. Again, before rogue one.

 

Then again about information, in 1917 a man carrying information was carrying paper, basically. How much information couild he carry? Hell, I routinely carry a 32gb flash drive as a matter of course. And I could easily get one that was much bigger. My smartphone has gigabytes of information storage. I could carry several dozen flash drives in a belt pack.

 

So in a universe like star wars, hell, the death Star plans may not be that big a database relatively speaking.

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Touching on what you said above it is interesting how the rebels found the deathstar's weakness so easily and quickly. Good god that was a hell of a database as you suggested. Maybe they had a super intelligent computer analyzing it at an ungodly rate of speed.

 

Of course rogue one retconned this a little. But going by the original movie it was...incredible they found it so easily. I suppose it might have been obvious triggering the main reactor would be the way to go, and they found the exhaust port but it also makes it hard to believe the empire didn't know it was there. Again, before rogue one.

 

Then again about information, in 1917 a man carrying information was carrying paper, basically. How much information couild he carry? Hell, I routinely carry a 32gb flash drive as a matter of course. And I could easily get one that was much bigger. My smartphone has gigabytes of information storage. I could carry several dozen flash drives in a belt pack.

 

So in a universe like star wars, hell, the death Star plans may not be that big a database relatively speaking.

 

In the original movie, we didn't know how long travel took.  In Rogue One, travel is shown to take only a few minutes (they receive info that the Imperial base is being attacked, and they send reinforcements that show up before the fight is over).  But in the original film, we don't have anything that indicates travel times.  They could have been on that planet analyzing the Death Star plans for weeks.  Everything is paced in a way that allows the possibility of significant downtime.

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In the original movie, we didn't know how long travel took.  In Rogue One, travel is shown to take only a few minutes (they receive info that the Imperial base is being attacked, and they send reinforcements that show up before the fight is over).  But in the original film, we don't have anything that indicates travel times.  They could have been on that planet analyzing the Death Star plans for weeks.  Everything is paced in a way that allows the possibility of significant downtime.

I might missremember it but did not Vader say "This day has seen the end of Kenobi. Now it will see the end of the Rebellion". That indicates they had less then 1 day between fleeing the death star, comming up with their plan and blowing it up.

Wich oddly is something that never occurred to me before. I too thought that the traveltimes for the Deathstar might have been humongous.

 

It could be they had as heroic "plan analysers" as they had pilots. But the retconning from Rougue One helps a lot to explain this.

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Okay, found the part. Vader did indeed say it "was the same day".

 

So unless there is something in the books to the movie about him streching the definition of day and it actually taking longer, how they found the weakness so quickly was a plothole.

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