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mrinku

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Multiple Attack is a new one for this old 4e hack, so just checking to see I have something right.

 

Is it fine to use it to do two Grabs against two different targets, then Slam one into the other? And that would break down as:

 

Multiple attack action uses a Full Phase and makes the character 1/2 DCV plus -2 DCV for the Grab

 

Grab Target 1 (-1 OCV for Grab). If unsuccessful, nothing else happens but your DCV is worse than if you'd just done a single one and you lost the first half phase of your action (this is probably a moot point, though, since you would have to already be standing next to both targets). If you have grabbed them, you'd probably choose Control as the action.

Grab Target 2 (-3 OCV: -1 for Grab and -2 for the second attack). If unsuccessful that's the end of the action. You still have hold of the first target. If successful you now have hold of two targets and can Slam target two into target one.

 

Sound about right?

 

And on subsequent turns to keep slamming one into the other just as a normal action?

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Multiple Attack is just the new name for Sweep (and its Ranged equivalent from 4e & 5e/5er).

 

The number of distinct "Attacks" in the sequence determines the OCV penalty to ALL "Attacks" in the sequence.  Attempting to Grab 2 targets means an additional -2 OCV Penalty to both Grab attempts, not just the 2nd one.  You are probably remembering the way Autofire works instead.

 

I have the following in the notes of my John Wick build. 

 

0 3) Multiple Attack (Free Maneuver) (Custom Adder)
[Notes: Multiple Attack requires a Full Phase to use (the Rapid Attack Skill, 6E1 87, reduces this to a Half Phase). Using it reduces the character to ½ DCV. The character’s OCV is affected by the number of targets, the types of attacks used, and other factors (see below). A character using Multiple Attack has to make a separate Attack Roll for each attack in the sequence. If he misses any of his Attack Rolls, all remaining attacks in that Multiple Attack sequence automatically miss also. A character making a Multiple Attack must expend END or Charges for each attack made (this includes any that automatically miss because he missed one in the sequence). He may elect to stop the Multiple Attack after any successful attack. This does not retroactively diminish the OCV and DCV penalties for using the Maneuver, but it saves END or Charges. A character making a Multiple Attack against multiple targets can choose to attack some or all of them more than once, but this of course increases the number of attacks (and thus the OCV penalty suffered; see below). For example, Thunderbird could make a Multiple Attack with his pistol by shooting Lazer once, Mechassassin twice, and Steel Commando once. That’s a total of four attacks, so he suffers a -6 OCV penalty on all the Attack Rolls.]

 

:)

HM

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Well according to CC you can't grab an opponent and throw him into another opponent in the same phase as that is two separate attack actions (though you can just throw the grabbed opponent and hope he hits someone else). So grabbing to separate opponents and slamming them together I think would be technically wrong however I would allow it as I would throw and target an opponent too.

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@Ninja-Bear, the thing about not being able to use the free throw to target another character (requiring an attack roll) doesn't seem to apply to Squeeze or Slam, since those don't need attack rolls. You'd be okay to simply fling the grabbed character without aiming as well, but that's explicitly mentioned.

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You can grab and throw in the same phase.  Champions Complete on page 149 lists 4 options you can exert after a successful grab: control, squeeze, slam, or throw.  Throw is described as the same as the maneuver "Throw"

 

Grabber may use one of these as a No Time Action (requiring no additional Attack Roll) immediately following a successful Grab (in the same Segment). In later Phases, these are normal Attack Actions.

 

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Yeah, but under Throw it specifically disallows throwing a character at another character (or other specific target) with the free Throw action because that would require an attack roll after an attack roll. You'd need to use Multiple Attack to manage that on the same phase. But Slam doesn't need an attack roll, so it should be fine.

 

This kind of thing is precisely why I like checking post-4e stuff here :)

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But if you've grabbed both characters, it shouldn't require an extra action or an additional attack roll to slam them into each other.  No more than you'd need an attack roll to clap your hands together.  And as long as you've still got a hold on both of them, you can keep doing this every phase, just like you could continue to squeeze/punch/slam a single character that you have grabbed.

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Exactly. The multiple attack is only needed to grab both targets on the same phase (and prevents moving since it's a full phase action, so is quite situational). Once you've got 'em it's Slam city from then on, unless the puny fools wriggle free or you get bored... :)

 

Good trick for stretchers and TK types, too. Not to mention multi-limb guys.

 

The boring way would be to move, Grab (Squeeze/Slam) then move, Grab (Slam together).

 

Nyuck, nyuck, nyuck.

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Other things to keep in mind is the STR of everyone involved (the Grabber should be at -5 STR for each 1 handed Grab) and the fact that combat values for the grabber and grabbed change IF the Grab is successful.

 

From 6e2 page 66:

GRAB AND COMBAT VALUE
The standard CV penalties for performing a successful Grab are:

Grabber:
½ DCV against all attackers (including Grabbed character)
Full OCV against the Grabbed character
½ OCV against other targets (if attacks are possible at all)

Grabbed:
½ DCV against all attackers (including Grabber)
-3 OCV against the Grabber (if attacks are possible at all)
½ OCV against other targets (if attacks are possible at all)

At the GM’s option, if the Grabber’s STR is 20 or more points higher than the Grabbed character’s STR, change the penalties to the following:

Grabber:
-2 DCV against all attackers (including Grabbed character)
Full OCV against the Grabbed character
-1 OCV against other targets (if attacks are possible at all)

 

:)

HM

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