Champions 5th Ed rules - character building question

[Juxtapozbliss]

Greetings,

 

i played the original Champions edition as a kid. I want to start up a campaign again and after some research, decided to go with 5th edition. I bought the fifth edition rules from the hero website and other supplements. I thought it would explain all the thorough character building rules. However, it seems to be only a highlight of character building options. I am disappointed and did not expect that. I thought it would give me the full set of options. I wish the rules hadn’t assumed you were moving up from a previous edition. I’m starting from scratch here. The rules said:

 

“Champions is different primarily because it’s such a wide-ranging genre that virtually anything is possible — so the full HERO System character creation rules almost always apply, and apply in just about any way you care to use them. (Additionally, both the HERO System 5 th Edition, Revised rulebook and other parts of this chapter provide plenty of suggested powers and abilities for superhumans.) So, this section is a fairly short one, containing just a few additional suggestions on various game elements that are particularly common to, or stereotypical of, the superhero genre.”

 

 So…can someone tell me what I need to buy to actually have all the character building options for Champions 5?

[Christopher R Taylor]

You have everything you need, but its not the best in terms of presentation.  What questions do you have and we can easily answer them here.  Also you might want to look at the Hero rules in 2 pages document for a super quick overlook (its a free download)

[Juxtapozbliss]

33 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

You have everything you need, but its not the best in terms of presentation.  What questions do you have and we can easily answer them here.  Also you might want to look at the Hero rules in 2 pages document for a super quick overlook (its a free download)

Thank you, I appreciate your offer of help and quick response. I’m still going through it, so I’m sure I’ll have more questions later, but I’m looking through this section that I just started on building characters in the 5th Ed book, and they give a lot of examples of character types with abilities and powers. I have been hoping for a series of charts with ALL the available options for Talents and Powers and how much they cost and the bonus advantages available for each, etc. I might be jumping the gun here and need to read this thoroughly, but it seems kind of partial with all the options.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Well, its a different approach with Hero than most  games.  Rather than give you a list of pre-built powers  to choose from, you get the tools to MAKE any power you can conceive of, using powers and modifiers.

 

For example: you want to play Iron Man, you look at what his abilities are (flight, blast, armor, see in the dark, etc), and look at what those powers do.  Repulsors are an attack that is not lethal, that sounds like a Blast.  Flight is just flight.  Armor is Resistant Protection, see in the dark is IR vision or Night Vision -- all of which is in a Focus, representing the armor, etc.

There are books of Powers out there that give examples of well known and recognizable powers, and suggestions on building them

[Juxtapozbliss]

3 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Well, its a different approach with Hero than most  games.  Rather than give you a list of pre-built powers  to choose from, you get the tools to MAKE any power you can conceive of, using powers and modifiers.

 

For example: you want to play Iron Man, you look at what his abilities are (flight, blast, armor, see in the dark, etc), and look at what those powers do.  Repulsors are an attack that is not lethal, that sounds like a Blast.  Flight is just flight.  Armor is Resistant Protection, see in the dark is IR vision or Night Vision -- all of which is in a Focus, representing the armor, etc.

There are books of Powers out there that give examples of well known and recognizable powers, and suggestions on building them

i do recall that part from the original version of Champions. I was looking for a thorough process for character building that listed all the options and how to apply points to them. What book do you recommend that I should supplement the core rules with? 

[Duke Bushido]

Been a whike since I reas 5e, but id I recall, the first page or two of the Powers section gives a running list of the powers; similar with skills and talents.

 

Unfortunately, there is (that I am aware of) no simplified list of all these things- alphabetical would be nice- with costs oublished anywhere.  When (if) I get home, I will look at the GM screen booklet and see id it has what you want (again: been a while since I read 5e).

 

 

[Juxtapozbliss]

12 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

Been a whike since I reas 5e, but id I recall, the first page or two of the Powers section gives a running list of the powers; similar with skills and talents.

 

Unfortunately, there is (that I am aware of) no simplified list of all these things- alphabetical would be nice- with costs oublished anywhere.  When (if) I get home, I will look at the GM screen booklet and see id it has what you want (again: been a while since I read 5e).

 

 

thank you

[Christopher R Taylor]

Champions Powers has examples of builds, Book of Templates has examples of full built characters like Superman with the numbers filed off.

[Juxtapozbliss]

19 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Champions Powers has examples of builds, Book of Templates has examples of full built characters like Superman with the numbers filed off.

 

I looked those up...they say 6th edition. How will that effect playing 5th edition? Will I need to convert something?

[rravenwood]

5 hours ago, Juxtapozbliss said:

“Champions is different primarily because it’s such a wide-ranging genre that virtually anything is possible — so the full HERO System character creation rules almost always apply, and apply in just about any way you care to use them. (Additionally, both the HERO System 5 th Edition, Revised rulebook and other parts of this chapter provide plenty of suggested powers and abilities for superhumans.) So, this section is a fairly short one, containing just a few additional suggestions on various game elements that are particularly common to, or stereotypical of, the superhero genre.”

 

Based off that quote, it appears that you purchased the Champions genre book for 5th edition by Aaron Allston (your quote appears on page 63), which explains how to create a superhero game using the Hero System rules, but does not include those rules.  You'll need to purchase the Hero System 5th edition Revised rulebook to get the actual game rules.

 

55 minutes ago, Juxtapozbliss said:

1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Champions Powers has examples of builds, Book of Templates has examples of full built characters like Superman with the numbers filed off.

 

I looked those up...they say 6th edition. How will that effect playing 5th edition? Will I need to convert something?

 

I believe the 5th edition equivalent of Champions Powers is called the UNTIL Superpowers Database, and I think there are 2 volumes of that.  Book of Templates is relatively new and I don't believe there was an equivalent for 5th edition (although I could be wrong).

[Juxtapozbliss]

13 minutes ago, rravenwood said:

 

Based off that quote, it appears that you purchased the Champions genre book for 5th edition by Aaron Allston (your quote appears on page 63), which explains how to create a superhero game using the Hero System rules, but does not include those rules.  You'll need to purchase the Hero System 5th edition Revised rulebook to get the actual game rules.

 

 

I believe the 5th edition equivalent of Champions Powers is called the UNTIL Superpowers Database, and I think there are 2 volumes of that.  Book of Templates is relatively new and I don't believe there was an equivalent for 5th edition (although I could be wrong).

 

That's what I'm feeling like so far...it's a summary and highlights but not a detailed how-to. This is the book I bought: 

 

 

I wish it had been explained more clearly, what i needed, I'm used to new editions of rules taking you through them from start to finish. Well, I don't mind...I'll pick up the HERO RULES 5th Ed revised. Thanks for the insight!

[Duke Bushido]

Rravenwood is quite right; you jave the genre/ setting book, but not the actual rules book.

 

Honestly, I have zero doubt that you are the only person this happened to.   As up until 5e, any book with Champions as the title was the actual rulebook, I thought changing that for 5e was a rally bad idea.

 

To be sure, I understood just how massive the book would be with the rules in it as well, but even grafting Sidekick in there somewhere would have been great for folks like you who picked up Champions because "I remember that from way back when-!"

 

At the very least, a _large_ banner with something like "Warning! This book is a genre and setting book only, and does not contain the rules you need to play the game!"

 

Not as a friendly blurb on the back, but straight across the cover in an inch-high strip of yellow or something.

 

The other genre books; no big deal, but Champions specifically?  It bugged me from launch day.

 

 

[Juxtapozbliss]

46 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

Rravenwood is quite right; you jave the genre/ setting book, but not the actual rules book.

 

Honestly, I have zero doubt that you are the only person this happened to.   As up until 5e, any book with Champions as the title was the actual rulebook, I thought changing that for 5e was a rally bad idea.

 

To be sure, I understood just how massive the book would be with the rules in it as well, but even grafting Sidekick in there somewhere would have been great for folks like you who picked up Champions because "I remember that from way back when-!"

 

At the very least, a _large_ banner with something like "Warning! This book is a genre and setting book only, and does not contain the rules you need to play the game!"

 

Not as a friendly blurb on the back, but straight across the cover in an inch-high strip of yellow or something.

 

The other genre books; no big deal, but Champions specifically?  It bugged me from launch day.

 

 

Yeah, 100% I agree with you. Whelp, I’m not giving up…on to the ~600 page Hero System! Any suggestions for me to keep in mind?

[Duke Bushido]

Haven't made it home yet to check the resource kit, but at the moment, unless you just really want all the tweaks and twitches and fiddly details, etc, I personally would not buy the 5e core rules book.

 

Why?

 

Because you are already familar with Champions /HERO from way back when.  As you apparently havent played since way back when, the odds are all the new "must" and "only" and other such mandates may only turn you off anyway (for what it is worth, this is not a popular opinion; it is just my opinion-  I just want that to be clear up front).

 

Additionally, as you are already familiar with the system, you can get by just buying the 5e Sidekick book: not only is it a super-condensed version of the 5e rules, it is a much easier read and a much easier reference.  It doesn't really matter which version you pick up, but the revised version is the most current.

 

I think there was one- maybe 2?- powers missing from Sidekick, but odds are you can find a character in the Champions Book who has it / them and suss it out from there.

 

Wait.

 

I am an idiot.  I have the Resource Kit uploaded to my Play Books.

 

Be right back....

 

Okay; back.

 

As I thought: it includes simple lists (with prices) for Skills, Perks, and Powers.  Talents are given (with prices) as one- or two-sentence descriptions, but still in a nice clean list.

 

If you are very comfortable with your knowledge od the system (the basics of using it the game havent changed enough to demand that you have the latest amd greatest version, though it is nice, ilas you can, to throw a bone at the company, as no cashflow means no new product), you might pull of using just this documwnt to make characters and run games, but you would have to have a very solid grasp of the game overall

 

 

If I remember, the PDF of the resource kit is like five bucks right now.

 

As far as HERO in two pages: don't bother if you already know how to play any version of Champions (though it is free).  There is nothing useful there; it is just an order-of-operations.  Kind of like a flow chart for character building and rollling dice.  You couldn't build a toddler or stage a slap fight with it.

 

 

 

[Juxtapozbliss]

38 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

Havent made,it home yet to ch2fk,rhe resource kit, but at the moment, unless you just really want all the tweals and twitches and fiddle details, etc, I personally would not buy the 5e core rules book.

 

Why?

 

Because you are already familar with Champions /HERO from way back when.  As you apparently havent played since way back when, the odds are all the new "must" and "only" and other such mandayes may only turn you off anyway (for what it is worth, this is not a popular option; it is just my opinion-  I just want that to be clear up front).

 

Additionally, as you are already familiar with the system, you can get by just biying the 5e Sidekick book: not only is it a super-condensed version of the 5e rules, it is a much easier read and a much easier reference.  It do3snt really matter which version you pick up, but the revised version is the most current.

 

I think there was one- maybe 2?- powers missing from Sidekick, but odds are you can find a character in the Champions Book who has it / them and suss it out from there.

 

Wait.

 

I am an idiot.  I have the Resource Kit uploaded to my Play Books.

 

Be right back....

 

Okay; back.

 

As I thought: it includes,simple liata (with prices) for Skills, Perks, and Powers.  Talents are given (with prices) as one- or two-sentence descriptions, but still in a nice clean list.

 

If you are very comfortable with your knowledge od the system (the basics of using it the game havent changed enough to demand that you have the latest amd greatest version, though it is nice, ilas you can, to throw a bone at the company, as no cashflow means no new product).

 

If I remember, the PDF of the resource kit is like five bucks right now.

 

As afr as HERO in two pages: don't bother id you already know how to play any version of Champions (though it is free).  There is nothing useful there; it is just an order-of-operations.  Kind of like a flow chart for character building and rollling dice.  You couldn't build a toddler or stage a slap fight with it.

 

 

 

 

Ah, the 5th Ed Sidekick book, I see it! That looks great. I can read that in a few days. Great tip. I just bought it. I'll see how comfortable it makes me feel to run it, and if I need more, I'll look into the full rules.