Advantages Applied to Strength

[Lectryk]

Hi;

 

Page 43 in Vol 1 talks about applying Naked Advantages to Strength, and the examples used are Grond and Durak.  These two characters have a high native strength, so it's easy to calculate.  But what if you have a martial artist (or high values of HA)?

 

If I make a character with 15 STR - 3d6 5cp; a Martial Strike - 2d6 4cp; 5 HtH Damage - 5d6 20cp for 10d6 29cp tot

is the Naked Advantage Cost calculated from the cp of the STR (5) or the STR+MA (29)? 

In Hero System Martial Arts, pg 107, there is a comment about Martial Maneuvers not costing endurance but Naked Advantages applied do cost endurance which leads me to think it's the total value, but thought I'd ask to clarify.

 

Thanks.

[Grailknight]

The cost of the Naked Advantage and the END used is based on the STR alone.

 

Why? Because the Naked Advantage must be used while the Martial Arts remain optional. You can use STR without Martial Arts. You even have the choice of using the Martial Arts without using STR. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

If you wanted, you could also add in the maximum amount of bonus damage your martial arts totals into the naked advantage cost. "STR+Martial Arts damage 45 points"  Then you can have your armor piercing area effect punch.  But be aware of this rule: Advantages are not optional. So your punch is ALWAYS area effect armor piercing.  Sorry miss hostage.  Sorry about your cafe Mr Grocer.  Sorry about the Batmobile.

 

And GMs be very cautious with this kind of build, it can crack your campaign's structure and limits very quickly and cheaply.

Edited March 5 by Christopher R Taylor

[Hugh Neilson]

Note that Martial Arts adds DCs, not dice.  AP AoE on Strength will reduce the dice added with +2 DC.  See 6e v2 starting on page 96.  Page 99 discusses adding damage with maneuvers among other things.

[unclevlad]

First, if you're adding a naked advantage to STR, it's applied to the *entire* STR, not just the CP to increase it above the base 10.  This holds true for Running and Leap as well.  

 

Yeah, it's the flip side of buying, say, a 3d6 HA that's armor piercing.  How many dice does your STR add?   If you don't have AP on your STR, then you have to do DC adjustments.  

 

It helps me, at least, to almost always think in DCs...never dice.  So, a 4d6 staff with +1/2 double KB?  6 DCs.  A 3d6 HA with AVAD Power Def?  6 DCs.  Then, take the most common enhancers...STR, martial arts boosts.  25 STR?  5 DCs.  3 DCs HTH.  2 DCs from martial strike.  So +10 DCs, gets me to 16.  Since the whole thing has a +1?  16 DCs --> 8 dice.

 

I also always think in DCs for the campaign limits.  If your limit's 12 DCs, then it's

--12d6 for any plain strike

--9 1/2 d6 for a strike with AP

--8d6 with double KB, or NND (power, mental, or flash)

--6d6 with a typical AVAD (power, mental, flash)

--4d6 with the same AVAD, with Does Body 

 

What HSMA 107 is talking about is, IMO, a PITA, and runs into problems as CRT noted.  Take the first example...Kickmaster wants AP on his offensive strike.  The computation is somewhat clumsy, IMO...you're not working with the underlying maneuvers, but their fundamental system costs.  And there's no support for this, you have to do it by hand.  That gets you the effective cost of 55 points (60 for the damage, -10 for the OCV, +5 for the DCV)...and THAT is the cost basis for the naked advantage...so it's 14 points.  And note that it's done on the total maneuver...the final result.  But also note, you can't apply it to ANYTHING else;  it's only on the offensive strike.  That also means, tho, that now you have a 15 DC attack...which is where you may run afoul of campaign guidelines.

 

Note the costs of the maneuvers and MA DCs are not a factor.  It's the effective value of the overall maneuver, considering all elements combined.  

 

What's typically easier is to add the advantage to either the base STR (a naked advantage works fine, so you can use it or not at your discretion) or to an HA or HKA (multipowers help)...because then, if you've got multiple martial maneuvers, they all work.  In an MP with, say, multiple HAs, you can make all the HAs have the same net DCs, or close...so a 6d6 normal, 5d6 AP, or 4d6 double KB.  Or, a trick I like...define those HAs as 1 pip.  When you use a 1 pip HA with AP...you treat the entire attack as having AP and have to recompute the damage.  BUT, it doesn't materially affect the DCs, so again, you don't have to worry about violating the campaign limits without realizing it.  By comparison, a naked advantage on your STR *does* increase the final DCs.  Double KB on 20 STR adds 2 DCs to the final result...and it also costs 10 points, and it can't be included in an MP normally, because a naked advantage is a special power.  So if you want AP and double KB as your advantages?  You pay for both separately.  OK, you can use Lockout on both, if your notion is, you can't use em together, but the final cost is still much higher.